[GGAC+R] & [GGAC] Baiken - General Discussion

[Tong]

Anything? You should know everthing:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?3195-Baiken-Guide-Read-this-first!

[BlackYakuzu94]

Welp, time to bust out my reading glasses

[Star-Demon]

Guess who's using this bitch? This guy. Anything I should know?

You just have to be good.

[Fujiwara]

Guess who's using this bitch? This guy. Anything I should know?

Know your normals and what they are used for (Very important with Baiken.)

Spacing

Meter Management (I cannot stress this one enough.)

How2NeutralGame

What to Guard Cancel

Your FRC's. J.D, Tatami and Sakura, if you decide to learn none else, please learn these.

Patience

Kire Tatami (Lowest possible Tatami IAD)

TK Youzansen (6239S; Unreactable overhead)

When to FRC (Important as Baiken's Offense and Defense is meter dependent.)

When to Guard Cancel (You don't wanna get baited and head into 250+ damage town.)

Fundamentals are what you want the most with Baiken. Don't be repetitive, look for patterns in your opponent. She's not a rushdown character, but a defensive character. Some match-ups are just...shit. You'll love being murdered by Slayer and Jam just because you did the wrong thing at the wrong time.

Spacing is very important. While you probably won't be trying to zone, during neutral you'll be fishing for counter hits or any cleans hits you can convert into corner carry (Mainly with 5S > 2D > stuff). This goes as well for your blockstrings, you won't want to get punished because you whiffed a 2D or decided to get a 6H Ib'd or something weird.

Baiken has to manage meter well considering that her Dustloop and biggest combos in the corner will comes from FRC's of J.D. As for defense, Baku (It's +1 and invincible) , her Force Break Guard cancel has many follow-up variations (For another 25%) that I won't get into as they are in the guide that you linked to. Baku's Follow-Ups are used to seal normals of the opponent (Preventing DP, bursts and throws or pesky normals you don't like.) and to get outta pressure when you just have that 25%. You can also combo off of Baku on normal hit.

Your FRC's are a must to know with Baiken. Tatami for your midscreen combos or pressure (Sometimes you won't be needing to FRC Tatami midscreen for certain characters like OS). J.D Since it's the staple of your dustloops and depending on where you are midscreen can be used to push the opponent right to the corner to continue the combo. And Sakura FRC is needed because if your Sakura is blocked, you die. It's -16 on normal block. So, you're giving your opponent a free way to make you feel the pain.

Patience: You are a defensive character. While you can get away with some stuff on certain characters, rushing down with Baiken is suicide in many situations. Don't just go I'M FUCKING ANGRY and think running right into your opponent won't get you murdered. You're not Jam, you're not Sol (Because Dash 2K Wild Throw is legit as hell.), and you're sure as hell not Millia. Sometimes you'll be sitting back and waiting for your opponent to come to you. Don't play at their pace, play at your own. You wanna be scumbag Baiken and let them make all the moves by making em impatient, go ahead as long as it's that kind of match-up.

Tricks: Kire Tatami and TK Youzasen.

Kire Tatami input is 236956K. What happens is, the 236 for Air Tatami is buffered with the IAD command, and when you air dash forward (or back) the Tatami will fly out as you land, putting it as low to the ground as possible, and with good spacing, giving you frame advantage. Doing it 956236K is also possible, but it's not lowest to the ground. I've been 6P'd from Ky doing that on many occasions. This is very useful when you want a safe get in on certain characters so you can start something up. Plus, the CH causes wallbounce. See here: Star-Demon's Kire Tatami Practice

TK Youzansen: TK Youzansen is your instant overhead. Thing is damn near impossible to see and can be done right off the ground. If you have 75% in the corner and you hit with this and RC, you're likely murdering Chipp and eating into 60% of your opponents health. Though, note it is -25 on block, so you really wanna RC this shit. See here: Click

***

Knowing when to FRC and Guard Cancel are very important for the reasons stated above.

Guard Cancels that are hits are negative on block. And you don't wanna get baited, trust me.

And you run on meter, pretty much.

Also, I link you to this as it's a very nice guide to training on a new character.

A Beginner's Guide to Training Mode

Have fun learning Baiken.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Fujiwara

[Star-Demon]

SCUMBAG BAIKEN

Exactly - one of my problems is I'm too eager to do combos to people. Baiken is a pain in the ass character, and you have to be that first.

Mastering your defense takes time and a lot of knowledge. You need fundamentals to really play this character without getting curbstomped by some matches.

YOU ARE A LIVING WALL.

[Fujiwara]

Well, Combos aren't the game.

There are a lot of players out there that practice combos more than gameplay itself. Yea, you can bust out those practical nice combos that ends in Oki.

But, if that's all you're going for, then you're just a record on repeat.

I've never been one to focus on combos. (While I do try to optimize as much as possible and practice those combos for consistency.) I prefer more gameplay than anything. The combo is the afterthought.

The 'I'm going to combo the fuck out of you when I get this hit' mindset appealed to me back when I first got into GG and was using Sol. But, after some games I was wondering why I was getting stomped out. All I wanted to do was hit them.

If I hit you, then I'll combo you. Otherwise, I'll be patient and wait for an opening.

Really, with me playing Baiken, I wonder why I don't play Hakumango.

Maybe I should pick him up.

[Star-Demon]

For those of you using Pad macro:

When you play light characters learn to use your thumb for "P+S+H" RC because if you try to super jump for the light characters using P+S+K, you will just get Tatami FRC Tatami.

Disregard - it's incredibly tough to do right and then complete.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Star-Demon

[Fujiwara]

^ What is that?

[Tong]

I play on pad, my setup is default. For RC I just press K+S+HS. P+S+HS would feel uncomfortable for me :s

But he has a point, since due to negative edge, a Tatami can come out if you input superjump (2369) too early.

[Star-Demon]

I'm trying to clean up execution so I can get more damage in on light characters. I give too much away right now because of it. I kinda let myself get the best of me and posted something dumb.

[Fujiwara]

I shall be down for the netplay GG and whatnot tomorrow. That is, if my internets allow me such a thing and it may be late since I have a lot to do during the day. I'm currently waiting to get a wired connection hooked up in my room, so meh.

I'm going to try Baiken on stick for the first time. Probably gunna be mad awkward... I don't like ps3 controller. Though, I may just go buy a ps2 to ps3 adapter

[Star-Demon]

I don't think either of us could really get the FRCs working right in netplay. I did learn I should change a few behaviors in the mirror, but LOL mirrors.

[Star-Demon]

Okay, well, I'm at the point I think where I can go no further. I don't know what to practice or how to defend myself, and I don't really know what to do when I play anymore. Perhaps I'm riding a low right now, but I'm not really sure if I can go any further unless I understand how to play the game, because I don't think I do anymore.

I don't understand my normals anymore, my moves, my abilities. I don't know. Is everything I know wrong?

Edited December 14, 2012 by Star-Demon

[Fujiwara]

I hate the ps3 controller..... And yea, FRC's weren't working for me. GG netplay is bads.

I know I shouldn't have been expecting like a great connection where I could feel like my knowledge meant something, damn xD

Oh, that first match was the one where my buttons were on default, right?

Anywho, Star. You might just need to chill. Seriously, I know people have been telling you to get better or drop the game, but what you have is a personal problem. You seem to be very easily discouraged once you lose. I've seen you play BB, mainly that match against psycho's Hakumang. You pressed -zero- buttons. Maybe 3 or 4. You froze up.

Calm yourself, maybe take some time from the game... I don't know what to tell you.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Fujiwara

[Star-Demon]

I just lost it that night, don't remind me...ungh...I thought I had reduced giving up like that, but jesus I was so disappointed in myself...

I know It's personal - I've been depressed and untreated for about 12 years, and it really does eat away at everything in life. I don't think I'm going to go further than some point or another until I have some way of coping with lots of failure in a real way where I don't have to really try hard to hold back the intense feeling I get.

I would settle for knowing a list of things I should practice doing and then using in a match that wasn't combos. Even then my combos are terrible, and it seems like everyone seems fine with it and I'm struggling to even jump cancel. (I really hate using netplay as an excuse because of this fact)

Anyways - I wish I know what kind of chilling out I could do. I would be happier if I didn't netplay at all, perhaps. Maybe I just need more offline people to actually learn from slowly. I just don't have that around me.

[Fujiwara]

Well, obviously you want to get better, and you just don't know how without a scene. I personally ritualize practice mode. Recording is a great function as are watching my replays in BB, setting up the situation that murdered me and trying to find ways out of it.

While this doesn't work for a personal problem, obviously. You can see your faults in gameplay this way.

you host a stream every other day to daily. You have recordings. Watch them, study, and see if you can find multiple ways out of whatever you lost to.

Example, I'm having troubles with this Tao online, so I rewatch my recordings yesterday and this morning once our games were done. I found out his patterns and snuck a few games off of him today. No, I didn't demolish him, but I learned and taught him that the shit he was pulling wouldn't fly, and he changed it up.

As for character knowledge, I obviously can't judge your Baiken until we get the best connection ever, so I can't say anything to you on that.

[BlackYakuzu94]

So I'm going into my first online match ever with this bitch, let's see how it plays out.

[Fujiwara]

Good luck.

[kaeru]

Star, what you need is good offline matches, and A LOT OF PATIENCE. Our mental strength plays a great part in how well we perform any task or compete in any way. I am not saying to be patient in gameplay, i mean, be patient with your own ups and downs, and your own pace. And anyone who tells you to get better or drop the game can go f- themselves. Everyone progresses at a certain rate, and the best offline scenes focus on improving each of it's members, because any community is only as good as it's members are. Strong communities breed strong players.

What you need to do now to improve is to just take the game more lightly. Keep practicing your combos and setups, watch your japanese GG idols play and try to play the game to play the game. You have nothing to prove to anyone. If you can clear your mind out of all this extra thinking when you play, i am sure you will find yourself noticing a million new things during a match. Like your opponent's patterns, telegraphed moves that you know how to beat, and even think of some improvised mixups and combos on the fly.

..and just stop playing online. Seriously. And if you DO play online for lulz, don't let it affect your mental strength.

[Star-Demon]

Worst things I think:

- Misplacing a tatami and getting hit.

- Neutral jump when I wanted backjump

- Getting 5Hed on approach.

- Bad execution.

[Dont_Explain]

So I'm new to GG and I was reading in PSN thread about Baiken sealing buttons. How does that work and what does it look like when it happens?

[SolxBaiken]

It's a Force Break Guard Cancel attack, 412+D during block stun, first Baiken summons a large seal (25%) if it hits you press either P, K, or S to cause a hanafuda/ukio-e like card to appear and cause an ailment (another 25%), after that you may press P, K, S, H, or D to seal that button for the duration of the ailment (which all vary differently). The afflicted ailment is displayed on the opponent's sprite through a translucent color overlay while the sealed button is displayed near the opponent's tension bar.

[Star-Demon]

So I'm new to GG and I was reading in PSN thread about Baiken sealing buttons. How does that work and what does it look like when it happens?

Read the Beginner's Guide. (FIGURE IT OUT DO BETTER!)

It's a two stage process. You land Baku Guard cancel and then choose a card. If it hits this seals movement, Specials, or puts them in Counter hit state.

If you land a card, you can do a followup that then seals a button of your choice if that move hits. There's a move for each choice.

This is useful if you see yourself returning to neutral after Baku or perhaps getting the final bit of damage in. If you are good you can get full combo off using Tsuki and then doing the right things.

It's tough, because even if you hit Baku there's no promise you'll land a card or hit certain followups.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Star-Demon

[SolxBaiken]

Star if I wasn't so sure the TX > NY connection would be crap, I would fight you.

[Star-Demon]

Star if I wasn't so sure the TX > NY connection would be crap, I would fight you.

Uh oh he mad. :O

Why do you want to play bad players? :P

I played SRKCoopa almost fine. :P