[GGAC+R] & [GGAC] Baiken - General Discussion

[SolxBaiken]

I just want to play you, what's wrong with that lol and I'm sure you can do alot better than most of the randoms I fight.

Besides mirror matches can be learning experiences and I've yet to legitimately fight another Baiken.

[Dont_Explain]

Ok yeah I figured it would be obvious looking when it happened, but I'm new so I had to ask. Thanks!

[Star-Demon]

I just want to play you, what's wrong with that lol and I'm sure you can do alot better than most of the randoms I fight.

Besides mirror matches can be learning experiences and I've yet to legitimately fight another Baiken.

Oh! LOL. My bad.

[SolxBaiken]

I guess we can give it a shot whenever

[Star-Demon]

Anyways, can anyone give a serious critique of the vid? I want to beat Dreikoo and all the other 1000 HOSs on netplay.

[kaeru]

Star if I wasn't so sure the TX > NY connection would be crap, I would fight you.

Anytime someone says 'I want to fight you' in our fighting community, it's always taken as a compliment !

[Star-Demon]

Anytime someone says 'I want to fight you' in our fighting community, it's always taken as a compliment !

I thought it was the opposite. I know everyone knows I'm awful so naturally I'll have people coming to expose me and to point and laugh at me.

[Star-Demon]

Four days until I become a Baiken Mod. >=3

[Her_Omen]

Hello. I am probably going to be floating around here somewhat because I've decided - finally - to learn Baiken in GG.

I currently just sit in lab and press some buttons to check out what goes into what on my own.

[Hellmonkey]

Hey Her_Omen, welcome to the Baiken forum! You should check out the Baiken guide which describes all of Baiken's moves and lists some combos to try out! Hope you enjoy learning this awesome character.

[Her_Omen]

Thanks!

I already started reading the guide a day or two ago, but not that far into it.

Need to get more time to actually spend with practicing things and reading.

[Star-Demon]

I'm trying to master and throw in TK Youzansen - it's not easy on pad. I'm trying to do it off 6P and 5K. I'm not really sure how and when. Netplay doesn't help.

[Solid Gold Wall]

on xbox, if you have one of those silver controllers with the transforming d-pad, TK youzansen becomes really easy to do.

[kaeru]

One thing that might be hindering you is the different amounts of hitstop with moves. If you do youzansen raw and practice it, then try it after 5P or 5c.S is that the timings will all be a bit different. You can help yourself out by trying to remember you can't jump cancel until after the hitstop is complete, so don't try to TK before then. If you always TK after the hitstop of the move you're trying to do you'll have more consistency.

It's certainly possible to just learn all the various timings and deal with hitstop passively, that's how FRCs work, too, when the FRC window comes after the hitstop of a move.

[Star-Demon]

I'm making progress on it - I'm mostly doing it off of 2D, 5S, 6P, and 6H.

[qwerty]

Playing around with Baiken a bit, some questions about wakeup OS.

- What's the safest counter to OS with on wakeup? P counter seems pretty safe, but S counter could possibly be safer with meter?

- How do you deal with okizeme that catches 1F jumps? For example, Johnny's meaty 2K -> c.S: even if the 2K whiffs, c.S will often times catch you as you jump.

Edited January 6, 2013 by qwerty

[kaeru]

Hi qwerty, to answer your first question, the usual OS guard cancel on wakeup is Yoshijin because it's the fastest one that doesn't use meter. Since even level1 moves have 11 frames of hitstop (barring exceptional hitstop reduced moves), Yoshijin is almost guaranteed to net you a counter hit if you do it on the first frame of hitstop. However, it is NEGATIVE on HIT if you don't get a CH, and some characters have very reliable ways to low profile yoshijin, making it very unsafe. Sakura on the other hand is slower, but has invincibility and an FRC that will make it safe on hit or block and allow to combo regardless of CH or not. Beware using Sakura against jump cancellable air moves however, some opponents will meaty a jump in and jump cancel it to bait a sakura. There are some rare moves that can even low profile sakura, and characters (like May) who know their stuff will be abusing that against Baiken. Whether to use Yoshijin or Sakura depends a lot on your opponent and if you want to spend meter. Ideally a perfect fastest guard cancel (as described in the stickied Baiken guide under "fastest guard cancels") would be a yoshijin against even a level1 move, almost guaranteeing a CH. There are tips in the guide on how to option select it more safely if your opponent delays their meaty.

As for your second question, i'm afraid im not experienced enough to give you a good answer other then to just block. As one of the more experienced Baiken players on this forum once said, "with Baiken, blocking is a mixup". Your opponent has to second guess their strings and will give you gaps to escape if they start baiting your option selects and guard cancels.

I hope that's useful ! And to others who may not have explored fastest guard cancels yet, it's a very cool (but difficult) technique to practice. Check it out in Hellmonkey's guide.

[AmeOtani]

Hey guys. I just switched from playing KOF relatively hardcore to AC in anticipation for R+. I was just curious if there's anything crucial I should be practicing with the release of R+ (I'm unfamiliar with Baiken in AC, so looking through the changing in R+ didn't really help me :x). I've realistically only been practicing IAD 623S, IA mat, and FRCing her mats, j.D, and j.623S (which I can do all besides FRCing j.623S relatively easily) until I found a bnb I should be focused on learning beside gatling>j.psd. I have read through the Baiken guide, but I figured there is probably more optimal bnbs and there might be a change in R+ that would lead to a better bnb to practice).

Edited January 9, 2013 by AmeOtani

[kaeru]

Hey guys. I just switched from playing KOF relatively hardcore to AC in anticipation for R+. I was just curious if there's anything crucial I should be practicing with the release of R+ (I'm unfamiliar with Baiken in AC, so looking through the changing in R+ didn't really help me :x). I've realistically only been practicing IAD 623S, IA mat, and FRCing her mats, j.D, and j.623S (which I can do all besides FRCing j.623S relatively easily) until I found a bnb I should be focused on learning beside gatling>j.psd. I have read through the Baiken guide, but I figured there is probably more optimal bnbs and there might be a change in R+ that would lead to a better bnb to practice).

Yo ! well, all the techniques in the baiken guide are worth learning in +R. However very few of her combos will work the same way in +R because the corner stone of her combos has changed quite a bit and she's gained MANY new combo paths.

In AC most of her combos revolve around getting some amount of corner carry and launching to go into j.SD, airdash, j.SD. This will not be the case in +R. Usually the launch is done with a Tatami, but in +R tatami wall bounces instead of launching in the air. She gets a ton of new tricks that allow completely different air combos even some grounded combos.

I suggest focusing on the techniques that are describes in the guide though, they are very useful in +R.

a couple of things i would highlight are actually what we've discussed recently in this thread:

kire tatami (different from an instant air dash tatami, as described in the guide)

fastest possible guard cancels (as in the guide)

TK Youzansen -> RC -> negative edge tatami (some tricks in the guide as well)

and some other things:

airdash mixups, usually involve forcing your opponent to block a tatami either on Oki or with the help of an air tatami FRC

landing after tatami or tatami FRC -> IAD, j.SPK if any of them hit, the j.K will launch. If they block all, you can mixup by adding j.D at the end for one more overhead, or landing and doing 2K or 2D or grab. You can also change the pattern if you are closer or farther to make your landing more ambiguous.

using c.S or f.S -> j.D. This seems to be very important in +R (it's extremely useful in AC as well). It's a bit different for each of the cast, and there are a few characters you can't do this on. There's a detailed per character list in the guide. It may seem daunting to learn but it's got to be some of her best abare possible. Her far slash is a really good poke, but it doesnt combo into much. Being able to turn a good f.S or even a c.S>f.S into j.D FRC can mean a random poke leads to some nice damage and corner carry. This is something that will remain important in +R as far as i can tell so it's worth the effort to learn !

In short even if you ignore all that, just watch Japanese players playing Baiken in +R and analyze what they are doing. Or bring it up here and we can break it down together. There's a great video thread thanks to the users of this forum for Baiken !

[AmeOtani]

Good stuff; I'll definitely have to spend time in the lab tonight to work on airdash mix-ups.

Baiken doesn't have much abare, does she? I mean, compared to Jam and other members of the cast. It feels like meterless, the most I can do is cancel into mat, j.psd. It's nice for pushing to the corner, but it just doesn't feel like Baiken can convert much damage off a stray poke.

Is there a way to hit mat > j.psd more consistently? I've tried sj.psd instead of j.psd, but I sitll only hit it about 70% of the time. I'm guessing there's a certain part of mat that's jump cancelable, but I didn't find anything like that from Baiken's frame data.

Thanks again. I'll be in the lab most of the day working on this stuff.

[Tong]

Mat > j.PSD is specific on some characters, like lighter ones. You'd have to settle with j.PD.

Try inputting superjump right before tatami animation ends.

[kaeru]

Without FRC, you cannot cancel the mat. You have to just keep practicing the timing. Superjump helps you get higher in the air faster, but it also makes the timing tighter. This is just one of those things that only takes practice. Remember that the timing is a bit different for every character, and completely impossible on bridget and baiken. The guide DOES have characters broken down by weight, though, to help you figure out how to lump them together for your combo timings.

For her abare, like i said, your best bet is to learn to land f.S -> j.D on standing opponents. Then you can FRC and AD tatami or just collect your knockdown. If they are crouching, you can combo her 2S -> tatami.

This is her most consistent abare but it requires some time to learn and hitconfirm it.

try the following in training a bit, against Sol or Slayer or Testament:

2S -> f.S -> j.D

If you want to hit with that j.D consistently, i would suggest learning to wait for the hitstop of the f.S before trying to jump cancel it, that way your timing will always be the same. If you try to buffer the jump you will need to be very good with visual cues to know when to hit D. Try both ways ! The best part is that the j.D will count as an overhead. If they were standing when blocking f.S, the j.D will hit them if they tried to crouch. What you'd call a fuzzy guard.

Try the following on a crouching character:

f.S -> 2S -> 236K

these are her best abare pokes and you will notice f.S and 2S can gatling into one another infinitely until one of them whiffs. Be careful since whiffing one of them is punishable. Learn to get a feel for using this gatling and hit confirming it. It's one of those things that will definitely still be important later, but it's not exactly BnB.

The guide has a list describing how well this works on each of the cast.

Edited January 10, 2013 by kaeru

[Solid Gold Wall]

great advice kaeru

[kaeru]

great advice kaeru

It makes me very happy to help !

I may move some of these question and answers over to the Q&A thread for easier reference and so it doesn't get lost in whatever else pops into General. If anyone has trouble finding a post that used to be here, try checking in that thread !

Edited January 10, 2013 by kaeru

[Star-Demon]

Today's Gem:

"It's easy - Just do the right moves"

Cancel Dash Tatami - it's easy - just do the right move!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VchQKqqXdgQ

PS: Still can't do a BnB. That's 3% success and it's not even correct.

What are the right moves? How do I do them?

Edited January 14, 2013 by Star-Demon