ACR Changes

[destruction_adv]

Didn't see anyone else posting this, so I thought I would!!

- 214H : Glitter is gold, New move

- 236236H (airbone) : New overdrive

- Divine Transport's trajectory changed

- Divine Blade changed (?)

- He releases the mist quicker now

- Noticed 6k pass through horizontal chemical love

- Can double jump after super jump (?)

- Jackhound still force break

- New coin not overhead

- New coin causes knockdown on hit in air

- Lv2 S Mist finer seems to launch behind him very often, still possible to combo though. (I think it already did that.)

Copy and Pasted from the loketest thread.

[shinquickman]

These changes sound awesome. 6K getting upper body inv is gonna be so good for weasling through some projectiles. The double jump during a super jump is... weird, but I'll take it. If it has enough knockdown time, the new coin sounds like a great way to end a ground throw. And I hoping Divine Transport+Blade were changed back to the old days, in which case I'd be a very happy Shin.

Perhaps the new Lv.2 S MF causes more force in the pulling, which would be pretty limiting for combos. Still, I would take that little set back for all the other stuff any day.

[destruction_adv]

These changes sound awesome. 6K getting upper body inv is gonna be so good for weasling through some projectiles. The double jump during a super jump is... weird, but I'll take it. If it has enough knockdown time, the new coin sounds like a great way to end a ground throw. And I hoping Divine Transport+Blade were changed back to the old days, in which case I'd be a very happy Shin.

Perhaps the new Lv.2 S MF causes more force in the pulling, which would be pretty limiting for combos. Still, I would take that little set back for all the other stuff any day.

I think this is just someone confusing #R S MF with AC s MF which always launches behind from what I can tell. Quicker mist sounds extra special awesome, but I think 6k already had upper body inv, but it was in the middle of the move and I don't think it lasted very long, maybe it's longer or starts up quicker now. Double jump after super jump seems wicked, like it'll help with getting in a lot.

[zdravkelja]

And I hoping Divine Transport+Blade were changed back to the old days, in which case I'd be a very happy Shin.

I wouldn't, It's the only aerial move which caused knockdown and i like it.

I like new coin and faster Mist will be good for better mist finer setup.

[shinquickman]

I think this is just someone confusing #R S MF with AC s MF which always launches behind from what I can tell.

Not really. I said that the new Lv.2 S MF probably has MORE pulling power, not that the pulling is a new thing. If it does pull more, it would be kind of unwieldy to combo from closer range, especially against heavy chars.

I wouldn't, It's the only aerial move which caused knockdown and i like it.

Mister, I don't think you know what you missed out on. In the past games, a CH AA 5H led to some big damage for 25% and no coins. In AC, not so much, at least not as frequently. Plus, we have 1-hit ensenga for air knockdown.

[destruction_adv]

I wish we had videos, it'd be great to see the new SMFLV2

[zdravkelja]

.Mister, I don't think you know what you missed out on. In the past games, a CH AA 5H led to some big damage for 25% and no coins. In AC, not so much, at least not as frequently. Plus, we have 1-hit ensenga for air knockdown.

Enkasu is good in corner, but it isn't very practical midscreen. DB is. I know old one delt great damage but I also like it this way.

Edited June 2, 2012 by zdravkelja

[destruction_adv]

What is this magical DB of old you all speak of? I only played #R and AC

[4r5]

6K always passed through ChemLove. It has head invul.

Pre-AC DB had waaaaay more usefulness than just more damage. Would gladly sac the knockdown for way better footsies, mixups, and damage. DB nerf was understandable, just wish KJ had better control/consistency in its followup combos. New air OD may bring back a lot of what was lost with the DB nerf, at double the cost. (but double the flash)

If his new OD is anything like it is now (in EX Johnny) then it will almost invalidate tk.Ensenga and his old OD.

[shinquickman]

^That new OD will not invalidate tk Ensenga because tk Ensenga is a decent overhead in the corner w/ 50% meter. It also won't invalidate his ground OD because you can use that on wake up.

[zdravkelja]

I like the new changes

http://bitterharmony.se/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4480&p=94516#p94516

[4r5]

With 50% meter, his EX OD is a better overhead, anywhere. And I said "almost", not "completely". But, I doubt they're just going to straight give him his EX OD. But if they do I won't complain.

I like the new changes

http://bitterharmony.se/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4480&p=94516#p94516

All Mist Cancels, recovery reduced by 1f

Johnny has a lot of multi 1f link combos that were on crouching hit only. These are now 2f links, for comparison, that's the standard FRC window. And these crouching only MC combos would now be doable on standing opponents, as 1f links.

Faster MC's = easier MC combos and more possible MC combos.

Faster dash = even more possible MC combos. (maybe)

Jackhound recovery increased from 35f to 45f, with no adjustment to float height. Sounds like Jackhound juggles are gone. MSJH stagger combos might aswell be look dead too, but MSDJH stagger combos remain unchanged. But with the new gatlings and faster MC and dash, I see MC combos taking the place of Jackhound combos.

Lv1 Up MF changes

more combos, but less damage

Lv2 Up MF changes

return of corner to corner carry combos?

Throw changes

The dashing jump midscreen 1-hit combos were a 1f link between the throw and the next hit. +3f on the untech time makes this a 3f link. Assuming hitting 1 or 2 frames later doesn't screw up the positioning for the 1-hit.

Only air DB getting groundbounce on CH sounds weird, but ok.

Edited June 29, 2012 by 4r5

[4r5]

More thoughts on the one frame faster Mist Cancels.

Currently, if you Lv2 MC out of a Lv5 attack (like a Heavy Slash attack), and immediately dash, then immediately 2P; you will trade with other 5f 2P's. With 1f faster Lv2 MC, you now beat out other 5f attacks in this situation. And you now trade with 4f attacks. Like Ky's 2P, for example.

We haven't even taken in to account the faster dash, yet.

But, a faster dash could mean two things. Either less recovery frames or less dashing frames.

Less recovery frames would mean when we can attack out of our dash remains unchanged, but wave dashing would be less needed. Less dashing frames would mean we can attack sooner out of our dash, making the above situations even better, but we would also have less frames to dash over things with. But you rarely ever needed all 9 dashing frames to get over a move, and most moves that used all the dashing frames already exceed 9 active frames, and dashing over such moves was mostly due to positioning.

Reducing the dashing frames by even 1f would be an incredible buff. But I feel like they are going to reduce the recovery frames, to make Johnny a little more user friendly.

[Xaphiel]

More thoughts on the one frame faster Mist Cancels.

Currently, if you Lv2 MC out of a Lv5 attack (like a Heavy Slash attack), and immediately dash, then immediately 2P; you will trade with other 5f 2P's. With 1f faster Lv2 MC, you now beat out other 5f attacks in this situation. And you now trade with 4f attacks. Like Ky's 2P, for example.

We haven't even taken in to account the faster dash, yet.

But, a faster dash could mean two things. Either less recovery frames or less dashing frames.

Less recovery frames would mean when we can attack out of our dash remains unchanged, but wave dashing would be less needed. Less dashing frames would mean we can attack sooner out of our dash, making the above situations even better, but we would also have less frames to dash over things with. But you rarely ever needed all 9 dashing frames to get over a move, and most moves that used all the dashing frames already exceed 9 active frames, and dashing over such moves was mostly due to positioning.

Reducing the dashing frames by even 1f would be an incredible buff. But I feel like they are going to reduce the recovery frames, to make Johnny a little more user friendly.

Major thanks for the thoughts and the perspective. Really inspired me to consider the potential changes from a few different angles that I had been too lazy to get serious and look at or think about. It's been a really long time, should really start taking GG study/practice more seriously for the release this Summer.

[destruction_adv]

I'm so ready to have a positive match up against someone.

[D4Nt3]

Im so ready to not have a single very bad matchup :P

[A3Religion]

Everything he has now is what he definitely needed except they didn't change his dead angle back to being completely invul which means Pot unblockables are still possible. The only thing they needed to change is the Divine blade transports trajectory back to the way it was because right now it is god awful and will be a wasted slot in his move list.

Also for the most part none of his changes really significantly change any matchups he has honestly just makes him better overall.

[qwerty]

So MC's are a bit faster now, and dashing is either silly or stupid depending on how it was improved. Sounds good to me.

[qwerty]

I've been reading over the changes again, and in the thread over in Guilty Room someone posted that DB transport now goes ~1 character length horizontally, but higher vertically.

That had me thinking; if the air coin is timed correctly, you can now do JI DB mixups off of a 2D knockdown midscreen. I haven't had much time to look for +R videos, but if anyone's seen this in a match please link it ITT.

[Lill]

Speaking of the new DBT...

The first thing that I thought of with the new transport was that you could use it off 6K if you want knockdown. The only other way I can think of that would do that would be to KJFRC into DB or Airdash corner Enkasu.

[4r5]

I might over value Johnny's meter, but I like to use it for guaranteed damage, rather than maybe damage. I was thinking there might be some double crossup potential by just adding the high coin to the safe jump slash crossup mixup he already gets. Though, it may no longer be a safe jump in if he's spending the time to layer a coin on top.

At the least, we know he can meaty the high coin. So you can meaty a high coin as a tick for a throw. Or slightly off-meaty the coin to bait out a block for a bare throw. Or setup a bare-throw to bait a counter-throw attempt for you to punish with air DB's new CH properties.

[qwerty]

I always seem to have enough meter to do what I want, so I see nothing wrong with spending some on mixups. At the worst, they block it and you continue to press your advantage. If they decide not to block, you get a two hit coin + DB combo (assuming you timed it right). Plus, most people see the gap between a blocked DB and 2D and assume they can mash something; they can't.

Really, I think the air coin is the single best change so far. As an anti-air it doesn't do much that Johnny didn't already have (albeit it's less of a commitment than superjump D or airthrow), but it'll greatly expand his midscreen okizeme, which I have felt to be his biggest weakness for quite some time now.

Edited August 8, 2012 by qwerty

[doragonkoroshi]

Yo guys. divine blade jump gets invul startup looks like... that's my contribution

[River]

Jo looks pretty gimpish right now.But i think he have new combos and i hope they will lead to Unblocable setups.Just need more time.

It NEW GG WHY U NO HYPE?

[doragonkoroshi]

too tired to type out translation on my phone right now, but this is a placeholder to remind myself to do that tomorrow. Some johnny combos. The ch one is chipp. Not counter hit.

vs JO, lvl 1: sweep＞MC＞２P＞K＞HS＞coin＞mf(p)　

vs CH, near corner:　K＞sweep＞MC>K＞HS＞lvl 2 mf(p)＞【coin＞5H>lvl 2 mf(p)】＞×２＞coin＞step airdash>KSD＞1hit ensenga

vs SO, near corner:　throw＞coin＞lvl 2 mf(p)＞up coin＞bacchus

edit: he actually does these combos at around the 31 minute mark here: http://www.twitch.tv/joniosan/b/333269401

Edited September 24, 2012 by doragonkoroshi