[P4A] Naoto Shirogane - Gameplay Discussion "Ace Detective"

[MikeySupreme]

What Cake said.

I'm gonna be frank right now, Naoto's advanced technical BnBs involving IADing twice are probably equivalent to a very simple Yu combo in terms of damage and advantageous situation with the latter probably being easier to perform.

Also, tried pulling off Naoto's Oki with traps and 99% of the time, it fails. It's like people simply say "fuck your Oki" and they magically disarm the trap magically by mashing buttons.

And on that note, I feel that nobody has respect for Naoto... at all, no matter how many times they screw up, and I'm forced to shoot bullets, lay traps, 5D~D all day in order to avoid risking getting hit once because we all know that Naoto's F-Action is gimmicky, which to be honest, isn't really that fun.

Take break from her then and learn other characters for a bit and try to play against naoto players to see her strengths and weaknesses from another perspective.

Tends to help me when i'm at a road block or plateauing with a character.

[KreativeMente]

Hey new to the whole Persona world here.

What exactly causes you to go into the SMP?? From the combos I've seen they all seem to lead it in the same way. Is there something more than just having more than 11 hits??

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[Zeromus_X]

Probably old news, but here's some tips for IAD combos since I was practicing them earlier:

-Height when you hit the first 5C is important. You have to wait for the opponent to fall a bit, and hit them with 5C when they're right about Naoto's eye level.

-Jump cancel for the IAD as soon as you can.

-Hit the jA/B, jC, 5C as soon as you can. I was thinking I had to delay the 5C or stagger the jA > jC, but 5C's hitbox is a little bit higher than it appears.

Using these my success rate has gone up a lot, the IAD combo after a corner throw is kind of a bitch though, probably just gonna do 236B/A bnb or go for death counters instead since the damage is so bad anyway.

Hey new to the whole Persona world here.

What exactly causes you to go into the SMP?? From the combos I've seen they all seem to lead it in the same way. Is there something more than just having more than 11 hits??

Basically in Persona and BlazBlue there's a system that's supposed to prevent abusable loops and infinites by giving certain moves "Same Move Proration". If you use a move with SMP more than twice in a combo, the hitstun will drastically decay, pretty much ending your combo. But it was discovered that for some reason, if you use 10 unique moves with SMP in the same combo, the 11th move with SMP won't be applied normally. Naoto just happening to have a lot of moves with SMP, along with Mudoon counting twice towards the 10 SMP moves and having some positive proration by itself, resulted in the silly loop.

[KreativeMente]

..

Basically in Persona and BlazBlue there's a system that's supposed to prevent abusable loops and infinites by giving certain moves "Same Move Proration". If you use a move with SMP more than twice in a combo, the hitstun will drastically decay, pretty much ending your combo. But it was discovered that for some reason, if you use 10 unique moves with SMP in the same combo, the 11th move with SMP won't be applied normally. Naoto just happening to have a lot of moves with SMP, along with Mudoon counting twice towards the 10 SMP moves and having some positive proration by itself, resulted in the silly loop.

Ah okay that ,makes sense. Now I can try constructing my own combos. Is there a list a moves anywhere that contribute to the 10 SMP?? Or are all the moves like that??

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[XDest]

So the most consistent variant I see is 214D -> ... -> 2A -> 2B -> 236A~D -> ... -> 5AA -> SMP loop. Does the 5[C] variant add that much to them?

[Ichipoo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MicAFUXhAc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5SYsKVxhU

Footage of OmnisScythe Naoto, take note of how he pressures the opponent as well as how fast he IADs after a 5C, it's like you practically don't see Naoto jump at all.

[Cirno]

So is anyone else having the hardest time ever doing IAD combos? I feel like I understand what I have to do, but still just doing it is insane. 214D > 5C > IAD j.A > j.C > 5C > 236B~D > 66 5C > IAD j.A > j.C > 5C > 236A~D The timing on the first 5C seems to be pretty tight and the dash 5C is even worse. Are you guys even going to use this combo or go with something else?

214d > 5c > iad j.a > j.c > 66 5c

[Miyako]

214d > 5c > iad j.a > j.c > 66 5c

holy shit you dash?? after you land on the first IAD? testing that brb xD

[Miyako]

Yea, No i dont see how that works at all. Im not sure how the dash would even help cuz you follow it up with a 236B so your position gets reset.

[Miyako]

Footage of OmnisScythe Naoto, take note of how he pressures the opponent as well as how fast he IADs after a 5C, it's like you practically don't see Naoto jump at all.

Yea hes trying to get in liz's face rly hard. This playstyle i think is prolly going to be the best cuz it will lead into the most smb combos, which is honestly where i see naoto shinning. Unfortunately it looks like omni didnt have them down when he played.

[KreativeMente]

Thanks to you Zero I got Challenge 30 Completed =D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHZQOIW95Qk&feature=youtu.be

[Kyle]

Two points to be cognitive about while implementing death toll tactics.

1.) It is preferable to NOT use the IK round #1. b/c you had to take down all skulls, their health should be pretty low anyways. The problem w/ IK's round#1 is that round#2 they recover all of their skulls. Not just half. Given the opportunity, go for DMG round#1 and save the quick IK for your winning round.

2.)Once you've taken all the skulls away, you lose the SMP loop b/c the Mahoodon will kill em. If this is round#1, it's not preferred.

[Kyle]

- Punishing AoA & some R-actions. Successfully blocking leaves the attacker in CH & standing. The ideal punish is C, IAD, J.B, J.C into whatever. Be nice if you could punish w/ FCH 236B. Anyone had success w/ this? I cannot test for a while.

Also, Congratz to Omni!

Also, AA CH2B, Link 5C, IAD into whatever

Edited August 10, 2012 by Kyle

[bestintheworlll]

how are you supposed to combo 5c after B double fang because it is literally impossible for me

[Ichipoo]

Goddamn it, I hate good Yus so much. One touch = death.

[Zeromus_X]

how are you supposed to combo 5c after B double fang because it is literally impossible for me

Same here, timing seems tight. Trying to figure out something simple off 236B FC midscreen with no meter/burst. (i.e. after Mitsuru DP, possibly others)

Spent a lot of time in training mode last night. Disregard one of my previous tips on IAD combos; it actually helps if you do somewhat delay the first jA or B to get the opponent at the right height. But otherwise, the IAD, jC, and 5C should be immediate.

Also for throw > 236236B, midscreen you have to buffer the input while doing throw followup, then press B as Sukuna-Hikona's sword finishes stabbing them and they start to fly backwards. Corner, just do it as soon as possible.

Anyone have tips for buffering Mudoon after C shots? If I buffer too early, I get Hamaon, but if I try to time the cancel properly Mudoon won't combo.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Zeromus_X

[KreativeMente]

.....

Anyone have tips for buffering Mudoon after C shots? If I buffer too early, I get Hamaon, but if I try to time the cancel properly Mudoon won't combo.

If you do 23C 234D it cancels every time . Just buffer down down forward when you do 2C.

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[ojay]

I've got a few questions, i've been trying to make a list of all the normals etc that count towards the 10 required for these smp combos, mostly just because I want to fully understand how and why it works. If i'm right proration is used for both damage and hitstun scaling? first which one of these is the one which has the same move proration value (at least the one that counts if they both do)

Second, is it the case that some normals will count in the middle of a combo but not at the start? I ask this because I remember hearing that attacks prorate differently depending on whether or not they start a combo.

I think I have more questions but cant remember currently so as for a list if anybody is interested. I will split it into two, those i'm not sure about and those I know count

5A 2A and 2AB, not sure about these 3, but I can say if 5A does 2AB doesn't and visa versa. Also the third hit of 5AAA, I haven't messed around with it at all so completely clueless on it.

second hit of 5AA, 5B, 2B, 5C, 2C, both traps, any gunshots, standing throw, double fang and of course our best friend that makes it all possible Mudoon.

A few nuances, Standing throw and the follow up count separately (this could be wrong as i thought this before i found out the next piece of information). Mudoon counts twice towards the 10 moves. Also I am almost certain that the normal and charged versions of 2C count separately.

Any moves that I haven't mentioned, I haven't played with yet.

Any info, comments, corrections, be my guest

[Minerva_sc]

I have honestly never lost so much in a fighting game before. I just get absolutely rolled online, to the point where even when i do win off an smp loop or something I'm just indifferent to it. Shit sucks.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Minerva_sc

[Zeromus_X]

You're definitely not alone. Naoto is not easy to start the game with. There are times when I want to go "fuck it" and just press buttons with Mitsuru but I want to keep at it because this character looks really rewarding once you finally get everything down.

[Raging Ghost]

Does Negative Penalty kicks in when using the B version of Aim (in which she dashes slightly backwards) repeatedly?

Edited August 11, 2012 by Raging Ghost

[Cirno]

Yea, No i dont see how that works at all. Im not sure how the dash would even help cuz you follow it up with a 236B so your position gets reset.

the position isn't reset. it puts you a bit closer.

Does Negative Penalty kicks in when using the B version of Aim (in which she dashes slightly backwards) repeatedly?

yes.

[Miyako]

I have honestly never lost so much in a fighting game before. I just get absolutely rolled online, to the point where even when i do win off an smp loop or something I'm just indifferent to it. Shit sucks.

yea im with you. Shes a hard first pick. But i also agree with zero. Naoto seems like shes going to be top tier once someone masters her. Also i hope most people put naoto down due to early losing so that there will be less of us ;D. The less people know the match up the better

On that note. How many naotos are you guys running into online? I mainly play offline casuals with my roomates so I havnt tried too much online.

[Miyako]

the position isn't reset. it puts you a bit closer.

Hrm, il give it a few more trys. I keep going under them though, even when Im pretty sure I timed my 5C correctly.

[Minerva_sc]

I highly doubt she will be anywhere near top tier. She is outclassed in way too many areas by the rest of the cast. In all honesty, if she didn't have smp loop she would be pretty garbage. Still fun to play though.