[P4A] Naoto Shirogane - Gameplay Discussion "Ace Detective"

[Schwooter]

Is anyone else having difficulties with Challenge 26? I've been at this for hours today and I cannot get the Double Fangs B to land.

EDIT: Nevermind! Managed to get it done by doing it all in the corner.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Schwooter

[MikeySupreme]

yea im with you. Shes a hard first pick. But i also agree with zero. Naoto seems like shes going to be top tier once someone masters her. Also i hope most people put naoto down due to early losing so that there will be less of us ;D. The less people know the match up the better

On that note. How many naotos are you guys running into online? I mainly play offline casuals with my roomates so I havnt tried too much online.

Her poor normals and explosive type of damage kinda screw her over hard in silly game like this, it's dumb when chie can just do a IAD j.b in the beginning of the round and there's not much you can do to stop her . I think without Mudoon and SMP she would probably be at the bottom of the tier list, but that doesn't really matter as the SBO results showed she's still a more than viable character.

It seems like everyone around here is getting shit on pretty bad though. :<

[Minerva_sc]

Her poor normals and explosive type of damage kinda screw her over hard in silly game like this, it's dumb when chie can just do a IAD j.b in the beginning of the round and there's not much you can do to stop her . I think without Mudoon and SMP she would probably be at the bottom of the tier list, but that doesn't really matter as the SBO results showed she's still a more than viable character.

It seems like everyone around here is getting shit on pretty bad though. :<

SBO doesn't really show how anyone is viable as it's a 1 and done tournament. I can see smp loop taking out a lot of people by itself, not to take anything away from the Naoto who placed but it isn't the best tournament to write tier lists off of.

[byronyuq]

I think when you do j.C you're supposed to have some momentum that lets you slide as you do 5A > 5C, but I couldn't figure out how to get the momentum.

I also did it in the corner =P

[MikeySupreme]

SBO doesn't really show how anyone is viable as it's a 1 and done tournament. I can see smp loop taking out a lot of people by itself, not to take anything away from the Naoto who placed but it isn't the best tournament to write tier lists off of.

Winning a qualifier and getting all the way to top 4 isn't too easy, that's a lot of wins against good/top players. But yeah SBO is really stupid, I'm just saying that she is a capable character is all.

[Miyako]

lol just give her a bit I see her as a hard character. But almost every hit can go into smp loops as long as you have the heat/meter and are positioned for it. Idk im not willing to give up on her but i can see why people are salty. Im not sure if she will be worth it but shes fun at least xD

it's dumb when chie can just do a IAD j.b in the beginning of the round and there's not much you can do to stop her .

does IAD grab not win that?

[XDest]

You're definitely not alone. Naoto is not easy to start the game with. There are times when I want to go "fuck it" and just press buttons with Mitsuru but I want to keep at it because this character looks really rewarding once you finally get everything down.

Same. I'd probably do better with Yosuke, seeing my success with fast mobile characters. But damnit I will learn this character.

By the way, laying trraps and countering all day, then using hamaon as Naoto's daisharin is the best. I just do a fuzzy j.A and people die. I'll even do 5B 5C 236236C, and some people press buttons, it's awesome.

[MikeySupreme]

does IAD grab not win that?

It might, but that's a pretty psychic read or conditioned opponent. I'll try it though.

Im not sure if she will be worth it but shes fun at least xD

Pretty much where i am right now, drifting into other characters, i just don't want to drop her and regret it.

[Miyako]

By the way, laying trraps and countering all day, then using hamaon as Naoto's daisharin is the best. I just do a fuzzy j.A and people die. I'll even do 5B 5C 236236C, and some people press buttons, it's awesome.

haha yea i was using that a little bit. its kinda gimmicky but maybe i should try it more IMO it doesnt last long enough to be worth it though.

[XDest]

Ugh Naoto's 2B is pretty bad it seems, is there anything better to AA?

[Leonil_Requiem]

j.A, Command Roll, Ex 214A+B , Back Dash, >2B<, Sweep , 236A

That is my list of how I deal with "jump-in"s. Hopefully they won't realize that that shit is kinda free at some distances in long enough for me to win Summer Jam and Seasons Beatings. xD

Edit : Almost forgot why I came here. WHO WANTS TO HELP WITH TONIGHT PROJECT?!!?!?

~Fear mode starters variations of the SMP loop. addition reps. :P

for example i just did 5.9 off the 2A , 5A (x2) , 2C Muudon series and it felt so good. ^_^

Edited August 11, 2012 by Leonil_Requiem

[Zeromus_X]

By the way, laying trraps and countering all day, then using hamaon as Naoto's daisharin is the best. I just do a fuzzy j.A and people die. I'll even do 5B 5C 236236C, and some people press buttons, it's awesome.

Is there a way to get a full combo off of Hamaon? I love using "Thirteen Orphans" too but I get sad when people just get hit by it lol.

[xntrikcat]

I'm definitely getting bodied all over the place, haha. Even just learning to zone and trying to feel the pace of the game is difficult atm, because other characters have some really derpy good normals. Yu and Mitsuru are like Ragna 2.0 D=

[Ichipoo]

I'm definitely getting bodied all over the place, haha. Even just learning to zone and trying to feel the pace of the game is difficult atm, because other characters have some really derpy good normals. Yu and Mitsuru are like Ragna 2.0 D=

Alternating between Aim, placing traps and well timed and placed 5C, 2C and [2C] pokes at mid-range should calm them down a bit. It sounds like you're simply relying on staying back and shooting while occasionally laying a trap or two to win, which is what I originally was trying to do. Edited August 11, 2012 by Ichipoo

[LeFartknocker]

I don't even care that I keep getting bodied as Naoto, I feel I learn faster by losing than through winning (which, depending on the calibur of opponents, can actually encourage several bad habits), if I get frustrated at not being able to win, I switch to either Yu or Akihiko, their pressure game is so derpy it's easy to body people, an advantage poor Nao can't abuse as well...

But converting trap hits into 3-4k damage just feels SO good lol. And her SMG super is just gdlk, Silence is a really useful status, wrecks a lot of characters game-plans, ESPECIALLY Liz, Yuki, Yu, and Kanji (who can't spam his SPD wihout his Persona).

So is it practical to use Mudoon in NON-SMP corner combos? A basic combo into SMG Super does about 3.4k iirc (on top of the status effect), so I'd like to know if a Mudoon corner combo can do significantly more damage than that. I'd rather not learn the SMP loop tbh, there's a good chance it'll get patched out and I dislike loops on principle...

[Zeromus_X]

Naoto can actually get 4-5k+ of a good starter in the corner, which is what Naotos did before SMP was discovered, ex: www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHI7DQEv_6Y#t=4m29s

[OmniSScythe]

Not to mention this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2McP0KsI9ZI&feature=player_embedded

It's good to know your options when you find yourself with a good starter and 0-25 heat.

On that note do any Naoto on XBL want to do a set later? I gotta get that mirror exp.

[Miyako]

I dont think they are going to patch SMP. Its integrated into the engine. But I could be wrong i guess!

I would be down for PSN >.> who gets games for xbox.

[Zeromus_X]

So how are you guys doing trap oki? I try 236AD > 214D but just get mashed out all the time. Can Naoto really not use trap oki without being put into a guessing game?

[Ichipoo]

So how are you guys doing trap oki? I try 236AD > 214D but just get mashed out all the time. Can Naoto really not use trap oki without being put into a guessing game?

For now, I'm guessing no, because it seems that trap oki only works if you make the opponent scared of your Naoto, which is almost impossible online because everybody is being a mashy disrespectful fuck right now.

/rant

[LeFartknocker]

I dont think they are going to patch SMP. Its integrated into the engine. But I could be wrong i guess!

I would be down for PSN >.> who gets games for xbox.

Even if it's integrated into the system of the game, all they really need to do is up the cap on the SMP system from 10 moves to something like 15, that would prevent anyone from really abusing it... The Same Move Proration system isn't really a bad idea in general, I just don't think they expected to deal with a situation like this so they set the limiter at ten moves without expecting a character to be able to abuse it in this way...

[LeFartknocker]

For now, I'm guessing no, because it seems that trap oki only works if you make the opponent scared of your Naoto, which is almost impossible online because everybody is being a mashy disrespectful fuck right now.

/rant

It's netplay, there's no such thing as respect. Netplay is like the side-street bar room brawls of FG's... Honor be damned you punch until the other person stops moving lol...

[Zeromus_X]

For now, I'm guessing no, because it seems that trap oki only works if you make the opponent scared of your Naoto, which is almost impossible online because everybody is being a mashy disrespectful fuck right now.

/rant

Yeah shit is mad annoying. I think I'm gonna start just doing traditional meaty oki or backdashing. I guess I have to learn to loop off every random hitconfirm before people stop pressing buttons lol.

[Ichipoo]

Hell, I'm scared to do meaty Oki on netplay because people are just so damn courageous with their easy to perform, motionless universal reversals. It's like these people magically know when I'm baiting it, and when I'm not. So for now, it's just pew pew pew and midrange pokes for me.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Ichipoo

[Kyle]

I updated my throw post w/ all damages & combos tested. If people have more dmg & skulls than what I have listed, plz let me know.

Two more highlights here.

-Picking up after 236236B: you can link a LATE airdash before you land, than land and 66, B. This brings you all the way back into the corner. Thsi helps tremendously w/ getting the fuck in there,

- If you can a LOW airthrow in the corner, you can link J.A as OTG and continue a combo from there. :D

Speaking of CH 5C. Here's a small standing combo w/ oki. 1163 dmg

CH C, IAD, J.B, J.C, Land, 66, B, C, 2AB, 214D

a good oki starter is a superjump IAD turn around J.B. YOu have the trap to play w/ at this point.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Kyle