[P4A] Naoto Shirogane - Gameplay Discussion "Ace Detective"

[Rikir]

http://youtu.be/Ba5pKwdK9Kw

More footage from our god. Sure he made some weird decisions/mistakes near the end that made me cringe a bit, but that first round was beautiful.

Such speedy Naoto finesse :O

[Rikir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXfqjlpecDM

Made a Naoto Fear Combo Video. This time all my clips stayed where they were =D.

[Random Naoto]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXfqjlpecDM

10/10

[Doonpa]

So, I was messing around with C trap, short hop j.A j.B after a cornered 236A~D knockdown. If the opponent wises up to it and starts blocking it consistently, you can do short hop j.b j.d canceled into C/D trap, then you can hit them with a falling j.A/j.B or go low really quickly. If they get hit by the initial j.B, you force your opponent into a situation similar to when Naoto does 5C into d trap vs an airborne opponent in the corner. You can set them up for an air throw if they try teching out of the corner. If they neutral tech, they fall on to the trap anyway. This loses to mashed DP and roll of course.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Diarmuid

[Rikir]

On the topic of Okizeme. I find that charging 2C after 236A makes a great meaty and can catch people if they mess up their DP inputs.

[Random Naoto]

So, I was messing around with C trap, short hop j.A j.B after a cornered 236A~D knockdown. If the opponent wises up to it and starts blocking it consistently, you can do short hop j.b j.d canceled into C/D trap, then you can hit them with a falling j.A/j.B or go low really quickly. If they get hit by the initial j.B, you force your opponent into a situation similar to when Naoto does 5C into d trap vs an airborne opponent in the corner. You can set them up for an air throw if they try teching out of the corner. If they neutral tech, they fall on to the trap anyway. This loses to mashed DP and roll of course.

I've been playing with the j.A j.B j.D trap j.A/2A mix-up for a few weeks. It's much better to do a jump in j.A than short hop, and you can get the full blockstring/mix-up. After 214C, a regular corner jump-in with Naoto j.A safe-jumps reversal DPs against Shabrys, Chie, Aigis, Akihiko, and if I remember correctly, Yosuke. Mitsuru, Narukami, and Labrys can be punished for a whiffed DP if you just hold back during the first part of the jump and delay the A mash slightly.

I've also had a lot more luck with blowing the 25 meter for an EX trap for the faster recovery and chip.

On the topic of corner game, the frames on 214 C happen to make this safe-jump work in the Mitsuru match-up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reK4OvfKoiQ&feature=youtu.be

[Raptor]

Is there any trick to using her trap oki upon knockdown? Everytime I try blahblah>sweep>A Double Fang>stance cancel>C trap I always either get thrown out before the trap even explodes or its too short and my opponent gets away. I am setting the trap as fast as I can while microdashing for the C trap to be in range. This is causing me to lose alot of momentum in my matches and I sorely need it.

[Zeromus_X]

Trap oki doesn't work unless you're in the corner. Otherwise the opponent has enough time to hit you before you can run up and set a trap. Midscreen, you have to do regular 236A~D oki or sweep > 5D oki instead. Well, EX trap will probably work if you must have trap oki midscreen but I haven't tested it yet.

[Ichipoo]

Is there any trick to using her trap oki upon knockdown? Everytime I try blahblah>sweep>A Double Fang>stance cancel>C trap I always either get thrown out before the trap even explodes or its too short and my opponent gets away. I am setting the trap as fast as I can while microdashing for the C trap to be in range. This is causing me to lose alot of momentum in my matches and I sorely need it.

You're probably putting in too much "blahblahs" which pushes the opponent back far enough for even a C trap to not catch them. What works for me is 5AA > sweep > 236A~D > microdash > C trap > upback. Also it goes without saying if you're just a tiny bit slow enough, your opponent can grab you out of it.

[Ichipoo]

http://youtu.be/SZ4YAdC2BWk

Footage of Denpa vs a Teddie. Good use of using 5A/2A to bait throw baits (which is one of the things you should go for when staggering with Naoto) in order to fish for CHs shown here.

[Doonpa]

Ok so I finally found a way to make the Narukami fuzzy work on the entire cast. Unfortunately, the way it works is that your opponent has to be inflicted by Fear from her shotgun super. The fuzzy is the same thing of course, deep j.C into rising j.aaaab. You can set this up after landing her shot gun super after B fangs or whatever by simply landing after the shot gun super, then immediately dashing forward, then jumping forward retaining the moment built by the dash, and rough as you are about to drop from the peak of your jump, airdash forward and j.C. This should result in a safe jump. If someone has an easier way/more reliable way to guarantee a safe jump off shot gun, then please let me know. Of course, if your opponent late techs the j.C can miss but you'll close enough to meaty 2A, etc.

EDIT: Also short hop j.a j.b j.d on hit in the corner lets you get a 236A~D into C/D trap oki with the option of just going straight into B shots as opposed to just doing j.a j.b 236A and having to commit to B shots. The only difference is that for j.d to connect, your opponent needs to be crouching, but that should be a problem since I wouldn't imagine why someone would get hit with a short hop j.a standing....

Edited March 23, 2013 by Diarmuid

[Zeromus_X]

http://youtu.be/SZ4YAdC2BWk

Footage of Denpa vs a Teddie. Good use of using 5A/2A to bait throw baits (which is one of the things you should go for when staggering with Naoto) in order to fish for CHs shown here.

I can't believe I haven't seen this yet, but great match. The jumping back also baits out DPs, which Denpa called out a couple times as well. I also like how Denpa baited an anti-air using 214D.

Ok so I finally found a way to make the Narukami fuzzy work on the entire cast...

Great stuff, I'll have to practice this.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Zeromus_X

[Doonpa]

Just a question for those who still play this game/character and for those who are interested in learning her or at least knowing stuff about her. Would anyone want me to post a more complete guide as a separate thread that won't randomly die out like the paste bin doc? I have a good amount of material to add on to what I've originally written and it might be more convenient for people who are interested in having a complete guide for her to just go straight into a thread and not read a badly formatted paste bin document. I'd like to make it look like what some of the Guilty Gear character guides look like, such as Moroha's ABA thread.

[Ichipoo]

I'm down, I'd like to help out with the guide as well as I still play this game/still seriously trying to better my Naoto despite people moving on to CP already lol.

[Zeromus_X]

I would totally be down for a Naoto guide, I'd love to help out as well. I think it would be especially helpful for Naoto, who people might be interested in playing, but get kind of intimidated by the lists full of combos and whatnot (grim matchup section notwithstanding).

Edited April 2, 2013 by Zeromus_X

[Doonpa]

I'm down, I'd like to help out with the guide as well as I still play this game/still seriously trying to better my Naoto despite people moving on to CP already lol.

I would totally be down for a Naoto guide, I'd love to help out as well. I think it would be especially helpful for Naoto, who people might be interested in playing, but get kind of intimidated by the lists full of combos and whatnot (grim matchup section notwithstanding).

All help is definitely welcome guys. From the general look at this character board, there isn't really much activity besides a random question here and there. Only time things are discussed is when we get a rare vid of a good Japanese Naoto aka Denpa. So hopefully this master guide will get people talking again and intrigue players both new and old to play Naoto. Hopefully by this weekend I'll have what I need to at least open the thread and make a worthwhile opening post. I'll probably PM you guys a general list of topics to get multiple POVs on the subjects. Advice on formatting would be great. Ideally, I am aiming for something like Moroha's guide or Kyle's May guide. I kinda want to go nuts, but at the same time I want to format it in such a way that a person can read some of it and can walk away with a good enough understanding without getting immediately overwhelmed. I'd probably split it into Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced sections for certain aspects such as combos, spacing, burst decisions, etc.

[LegendaryRath]

Be sure to let Zeromus help out a bunch. He's put in a ton of time into this character and knows a lot of the matchups (mitsuru) really well.

Also, I've been throwing around the idea of picking her up as one of my subs and I'm just curious if she has any links. It would be a major plus for me if she did because fun, optimal combos are what I live for. It seems I need to keep playing new characters if I want to have fun with this outside of casuals. Not that I am trying to be arrogant or anything, but I feel like I can do pretty much 100% of the stuff available for the main characters I play already and I would appreciate being able to get creative with the game again. Basically, from watching a lot of Naotos, I think she looks like she'd be fun.

[Ichipoo]

I'll try to see if I can get Bond to help out too by letting him know on Skype, he's a good Naoto player from Los Angeles.

[ludwig van]

I'm down Diarmuid, let me know if you need help w/ anything, and I'll be sure to give it a sticky once the thread's done.

EDIT: Bond says he's down to help too.

Edited April 4, 2013 by ludwig van

[Doonpa]

Yeah I've heard of/seen Bond play, it would be great to get his perspective on Naoto things. So after some thought, I'm going to devise a list of important topics related to Naoto's gameplay for everyone who wants to contribute. I feel its probably best to get multiple opinions because everyone's experience playing her is different and I can imagine that we all do different things with her. There are probably things that I don't know that some of you guys probably know and what not because of the difference in match up exp and what works for us individually in our matches. So with that in mind I'll be sending a PM soon with general questions and topics for everyone just to get people to reflect on their game play and any useful info worth contributing. By doing this, we can figure out our middle ground so that we can all come to an agreement on the "universal info/tech" that we all have in common and that can be accepted as part of Naoto's standard gameplay.

I also ask that anyone who wants to contribute to please revise the pastebin guide I wrote a while back. As I said before, everyone has their own perspective on playing Naoto and the uses of her moves, so I'd like to get feedback on that. If you guys feel that some of my analysis is incorrect or can be worded better, let me know. After some preliminary corrects that you guys have, I'll post up the shell of the guide, and at that point I'll go about editing info about it as it comes. The layout of the guide is still up in the air, so any ideas on how it should be formatted and any topics that should be talked about in the guide are totally open for discussion. Once that is decided, I'll personally put in the time to flesh out everything as much as I can. Any and all info that you guys write that is felt to be accurate and helpful will be put into the guide and credit for your write ups/corrections will be given.

[Ichipoo]

If necessary, I think the Naoto Skype group would be a great place for a live discussion regarding her. Me, ludwig and Bond reside in it and it's been dead for a while.

[ludwig van]

Ok, there's going to be discussion on Naoto's match ups in this group. Feel free to join in if you have anything to contribute. The plan is to take info gathered there and make a foundation for each of the actual MU threads.

[Rikir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-o01GDiMeE

Safejump after a Shotgun.

[Doonpa]

Found another fuzzy guard/mix up I guess. I don't know if I can call it a fuzzy since it does really work like the j.C one, so its up to you guys to define it. So basically, Throw, Follow up, wait until the opponent is somewhat low, 2AB, 5D. Now here you want to wait a split second to bait out DPs, mashing, etc. then jump and mash j.aab or any variation of an airstring that almost makes you land, then dj.A and hit 5D again. The 5D keeps you safe if they do block it, and if it hits you can combo off of it. This is particular good if you have meter for Mudoon or if you got the 5C 236B followup from 5DD down. Obviously this setup is not guarenteed as the opponent can escape from after you do the first 5D, but if im not mistaken if they try to upback this setup you can do 5A to hit them out of the vulnerable frames of their jump start up. Mashing, rolling, and Dp have their respective answers of course. Depending on what they mash, you should be able to either hit them first generally. If they roll, you should be able to react and punish with throw or chase the roll. If they DP, block and 236B. I haven't overly tested this setup too much since I don't practice this game anymore, so do what you will with this info. It might not be very good since its not meaty nor entirely safe. Probably can be improved as well so do what you will.

[EPIC_POTATOCHIP]

Thinking about picking up Naoto... If anyone still plays this god forsaken game, would anyone mind teaching a young lad? lol