[P4A] Naoto Shirogane - Gameplay Discussion "Ace Detective"

[LunaKage]

That, is a fantastic idea. Can't believe I never thought of that. Where do I go from there if it's blocked? I assume either [2C] or jump cancel tpye stuff.

[Zeromus_X]

I was going to post about safejumps but Diarmuid ninja'd me. Here is a good video example of the safejump vs Kanji: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR014E1Kz0o&feature=youtu.be You can cancel the 5C into 5B, sweep, attempt a 2[C] or trap set, or go for jump-cancel/IAD pressure. And don't forget jC is jump-cancellable on block, so once they respect it you can abuse this for Ragna style jC > jump cancel deeper jC pressure, falling jA/B, or even jC > trap set > falling jA and what-have-you.

And don't worry about bitching; we've all been through it before. You should read the posts from back when the game first came out, it was like the Naoto Support Group in here lol...

Btw, do you guys think there should be a thread about Naoto's pressure, mixup, oki/setplay, etc? Or is the general thread + matchups enough? I feel like it's another important part of her gameplan that's kind of just scattered everywhere. It would be nice to have a thread just for stuff like safejump setups, what to do vs X's DP, and how to actually hit people in general.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Zeromus_X

[Doonpa]

I wouldn't mind a thread like that, but I think it'll suffer the same fate as the Burst thread. I'd contribute if someone has stuff to share.

[LunaKage]

One of you wild and crazy guys should make a video displaying her mixup options. Some people are more visual learners :3

[Rikir]

None of this is really new stuff since I basically combined Diarmuid and Zeromus' information (even straight up copy pasted) along with stuff from the last 15 or so pages. But heres a condensed list of okizeme and mixups that Ive noted while playing catchup. Im only sharing cause it looks nice and im sure no one else wants to backtrack like I did. Only a few of these setups are actually mine. Derp. ;p

NAOTO OKIZEME:

Anywhere:

Sweep:

1. Sweep xx 236A~D (can be omitted) > IAD jump normal

Type: Safejump

Resources: None

Loses to: Fast Supers, Loses to Teddie, Yosuke, Kanji (?)

2. Sweep (best done at a distance) xx 236A~D (Can be omitted) > 2[C]

Type: Meaty

Resources: None

Loses to: Fast Supers, long reaching DPs

3. Sweep > 5D > Mixup (Low 2A/Sweep, High overhead/AOA/Double Fang, Grab, Fuzzy , Cross up etc) with 5D Cover

Type: Mixup

Resources: None

Loses to: Varies depending on what you do, typically loses to job or anything that punches Sukuna- Hikuna

5AAA:

1. 5AAA > 669 j.C

Type: Safejump

Resources: None

Loses to: Delay Tech, Elizabeth DP, Yosuke DP,

2. 5AAA > 669 > air 214D > land evasive action (cross up)

Type: Mixup

Resources: None

Loses to: Roll, Grab, Mash

Mid Screen:

Sweep:

1. Sweep > 214D > Evasive Action (Crosses up)

Type: Mixup

Resources: None

Loses to: Grab

2. Sweep > (midscreen) 66 7jA+C> IAD j.B

Type: Mixup/Bait

Resources: None

Loses to: Some DPs if timed improperly

3. Sweep > 236A~D > 214D > Evasive Action (Cross up)

Type: Mixup

Resources: None

Loses to: Everything

Throw:

1.Throw > Follow up > 66 > IAD j.C (tip of j.C hits)

Type: Safejump

Resources: None

Loses to: Teddie DP, Yosuke DP, Kanji DP

Corner:

Sweep:

1. Sweep > 214D > 2[C]

Type: Meaty

Resources: None

Loses to: Nothing if spaced properly

2. Sweep > 236A~D > 214C > Short Hop j.AB OR j.BD xx 214C/D > Falling j.A > Low

Type: Mixup

Resources: None

Loses to: DP, Roll

3. Sweep > 236A~D > 214C > jump in j.A (safe jumps) > continue with more air normals > air trap > falling normals + lows

Type: Mixup/Safejump/Bait

Safe jumps against: Sharbys/Chie/Aigis/Akihiko, Delaying the j.A allows DP punish on Yosuke/Mitsuru/Narukami/Labrys

4. Sweep > 236A~D > Delay > 214C > Throw Before Trap hits.

Type: Mixup

Resources: None

Loses to: DP, Throw Tech

Throw:

1. Throw > Follow up > 2AB > 5D > Wait for Opponent Response > j.AAB (or any aerial blockstring that brings you close to ground) if safe > when close to ground dj.A + 5D > Fuzzy Situation setup

Type: Fuzzy/Mixup/Bait

Resources: None

Loses to: Variable, untested.

FUZZY GUARD:

1. Deep j.C > j.AAAAAA (Fuzzy)

Character Specfic: Narukami, If in Fear other characters as well, other characters as well but non-comboable

2. While on top of opponent 214CD > falling j.A > dj.A (fuzzies with the D trap hitting)

CHIP STRINGS:

1. Dash 9j214D, jA, j214D, land 5A, 214D, 5A > [EX trap > 214D > 5A > EX trap > 214D > 5A...]xN

2. Full Screen Aim Stagger Pressure

MIXUP:

1.Blockstring xx 236A (First Hit) RC into IAD j.AA OR land 2A OR Land AOA OR Land Throw

Resources: 50 Meter

Loses to: DP, Roll

2. IAD j.C xx 214CD > land > Evasive Action

3. Any blockstring that pushes the opponent far enough > IAD (J.A )J.A whiff air throw into land throw/AOA/2A/throw bait with jump back j.C.

Loses to: Mashing, anti-airs, roll, DP

4. Any Jump Canceable Normal > Jump Cancel > Rising j.A xx 214CD > Falling j.AB

Loses to: Roll, DP, Mash

5. Any Jump Canceable Normal > Jump Cancel to other side > Gold Burst

Loses to: Roll, ?

6. Anything into 236B, 5C, D trap, (opponent techs), jump air throw them into the trap OR jump normal to catch mashing

Loses to: invincible air attacks, throw tech. late teching

7. Anything into 236B > 5C > C Trap (opponent techs) > j.A > Air Turn IAD j.A > Opponent lands on C Trap

Loses to: Invincible Air Attacks, late teching

8. Blockstring xx EX Roll (crossup)

Loses to: Fast Normals and possibly grab?

HAMAON:

1. 236236C > AOA/Sweep/2A/ IAD Overhead

Resources: 50 Meter

Loses to: Guard Cancel

SAMPLE COMBO:

1. 236236C > 2A+B > 214D > 5AA > 236A~B~D > 2A > 2B > 5C > 236B~DxN

Edited July 9, 2013 by Rikir

[Doonpa]

You can add this set up to that list too lol. So in the corner, if you do a basic BNB involving B Fangs, but instead of doing an IAD string, you can either go for low 5AAA to hit in such a way that the opponent stays in front of you, or you do 5C and then chain into a late Sweep. You can also combo into sweep off a throw, and cancel into D trap for the same exact setup. Off of these follow ups, you can set a pseudo-meaty D trap. Off 5AAA, you have to wait a bit, but off sweep you can special cancel right into the D trap. What happens is that the D-trap won't be meaty, but it will activate fast enough to catch the opponent out of their jump if they try to upback and it should net you a CH if your opponent wakes up hitting buttons. The weakness to this set up is that your opponent can roll on their wake up, but there are really simple ways to deal with it. First, you have time to literally just sit in their face and just wait for the roll and punish it with throw for minor reward. But, a better move would be wait a little, and then jump back and come down with an air normal like j.C and get the CH. Jumping back also lets you avoid pretty much all DPs or if they decide to microdash DP, you'll probably block in the air. Once you establish that they aren't leaving any time soon, you'll get to run your mixups which are....

Jump back, wait a little, airdash j.A j.B

Jump back, wait a little, airdash, 2A.

Jump back, wait a little, airdash j.A whiff airthrow, land throw/jump back j.C for the throw blow up

Jump forward, land, 2A

Jump forward, j.B

Immediate Throw

wait for the explosion, short hop j.A j.B

wait for the explosion, AOA

2A/Sweep before/or after the explosion

If you have meter to burn, you can also do the Chip string with EX Traps and potentially sneak a throw in during it by intentionally leaving a gap or something and deal massive damage. Alternatively, if they block whatever mixup you do and have 50% meter, you can just do whatever blockstring into 236A~Ax5 into Hamaon and set yourself up for another 50/50 into a SMP. Also, off the 5AAA setup, since the opponent won't be fully in the corner, you can cross them up by simply rolling past them. Welcome to Naoto setplay guys.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Diarmuid

[Zeromus_X]

One note about the chip string - If you have a surplus of meter, you can go into it much more easily if you do a blockstring into EX trap, or do EX trap oki without having to do the forward jump 214D and what-not. Keep it in mind when you have a bunch of meter and the opponent is lower on life. Who needs mixups when you have chip lol?

[Doonpa]

lol yeah, you don't really have to go for the exact set up Denpa showed. I think he was aiming for the maximum amount of chip he can get under reasonable circumstances. Just doing D trap, wait, EX trap, then going to town is good enough.

In other news, I was messing around with the fuzzy set up (again) and I got the standard j.C, rising j.AAAAAAAA one to actually work on Yosuke. The trick is you need to slightly delay the second j.A to combo it off the first one. From there, just mash AAAA and you'll be fine. It's tricky timing but its not too bad with some practice. It makes sense that this would also work on Yosuke since a lot of characters like Akihiko and Chie have things that only work on a standing Narukami and Yosuke.

[Wild Candy]

Hey all! I'm new to P4A, and I decided to main Naoto. She's so freaking awesome!

Right, I've gotten the general idea of her tools, along with getting the hang of her simpler combos. I think I'm starting to get the hang of Zoning with her. In a way her zoning slightly reminds me of Rachel's in BB.

Right now, I'm trying to get the hang of Naoto's SMP Loop Combo, but I'm still having a little trouble setting it up.

The set up I'm using is Sweep > 236AB > Mudoon > 214D > 2A > 5B > 236A > K Follow Up > Trap Detonates > 2B > 5C > 236B Loop

[Doonpa]

Hey all! I'm new to P4A, and I decided to main Naoto. She's so freaking awesome!

Right, I've gotten the general idea of her tools, along with getting the hang of her simpler combos. I think I'm starting to get the hang of Zoning with her. In a way her zoning slightly reminds me of Rachel's in BB.

Right now, I'm trying to get the hang of Naoto's SMP Loop Combo, but I'm still having a little trouble setting it up.

The set up I'm using is Sweep > 236AB > Mudoon > 214D > 2A > 5B > 236A > K Follow Up > Trap Detonates > 2B > 5C > 236B Loop

The combo works since you get all 10 hits in before the 236B, but you'll have a harder time landing 2A 5B on Chie and Mitsuru compared to the other characters. I'm assuming you mean 1 hit of B shots after 236A as well, right? If you could specify what is giving you a hard time, that would help with whatever problem you have with the combo.

[Wild Candy]

Oh, it's not that it's difficult, I just need some practice!

And you simply do 1 K follow up and Cancel right after the trap detonates.

[LunaKage]

I know you mean the B follow-up, but are you calling it K for kick? because 2B is a chop... so...

anyways, you should try the grab SMP, it's probably my favorite one right now:

Grab~C > Moudoon > 214D > Sweep > 236A~B~D (Trap Hits) > 2A > 2B > 5C > 236BxN

It's a fun one imo, it helps me personally since a grab seems to be the only thing I can land lol.

[Wild Candy]

Either way, I can see why Naoto's normal combos are a little lower in damage output between her SMP Combos and Instant Death Moves causing a lot of damage in the right situations! Naoto's just freaking awesome!

[Doonpa]

If you want more SMPs to practice, here are a couple of SMPs off common starters:

214D, 5C, IAD j.A/j.B j.C land 5C 214A~Cx5 Mudoon, C trap, 5AA, 236BxN

5B 5C 2C Mudoon 214C, 214D, 236A~B(1)~D 2A 2B 5C 236BxN

5AA 5B 5C 2C Mudoon 214D 236A~B(1)~D 2B 236BxN

AOA~D FC, 5B 5C Mudoon, 214C, 214D, 236A~B(1)~D 236BxN

2A 5B 5C 2C Mudoon 214D, 2AB 236A~B(1) 2B 236BxN

j.C 5B 5C 2C Mudoon, 214D, 2AB, 236A~B(1)~D 2B 236BxN

The Throw SMP Lunakage posted above

Simple and easy to remember. Not all of these are the best possible SMPs, but they do decent damage and are pretty reliable to do (especially if you are playing online >_<)

[Rikir]

Got back from Evo, got third in my pool. Dropped SMP loops on stream against SuperScience and died. SAD LIFE NAOTO IS SADLIFE.

[Zeromus_X]

At least you didn't try to EX roll and get a wakeup Sweep. =( NAOTO ARMY WILL LIVE ON

[Cynthetik]

Probably should have posted earlier, but I was exhausted from the weekend. I made it out of my pools on losers side, was actually worried at first because I lost my very first match against an Elizabeth (yeah... I know its supposed to be one of Naoto's only good matchups...) I was actually able to land a clutch full health SMP when I literally had pixel of health left against a Teddie in Loser's Finals because he got anxious to get the win and bursted early. IN NAOTO WE TRUST!

[Rikir]

Probably should have posted earlier, but I was exhausted from the weekend. I made it out of my pools on losers side, was actually worried at first because I lost my very first match against an Elizabeth (yeah... I know its supposed to be one of Naoto's only good matchups...) I was actually able to land a clutch full health SMP when I literally had pixel of health left against a Teddie in Loser's Finals because he got anxious to get the win and bursted early. IN NAOTO WE TRUST!

Well at least one of us made it :>

[LunaKage]

Proud of you guys regardless :3

[Doonpa]

lol hopefully you guys got to play lots of casuals and learned some stuff from each other/other players. Playing the JP especially is a really enlightening experience if you get to run a small ft3 or something with one.

In other news, more Naoto tech. Another fuzzy setup that functions off the same principle as the corner EX trap fuzzy, except its surprisingly better mid screen since you get a way better combo. Setup is simple, just do the usualy j.C (blocked) rising j.A fuzzy for a good opener for the setup. Then, off the j.A, do a delayed EX trap, and while you are coming down from it, do a deep j.B, then dj.A. If you timed the EX trap properly, the j.A will combo into the D-trap and you can follow it up. The C trap won't get in the way so you'll be fine.

[ludwig van]

Shoutouts to all the Naoto cosplayers www

Even though I went 3-2 I'm still feeling good about my Naoto play, definitely going to keep grinding this game even though so many people are shouting "P4 IS DEAD AFTER EVO". (And in a different note, I made it out of my Injustice pool loser's side w/ a Batman mask that Chicago anime let me borrow LOL)

[Random Naoto]

A character specific set-up I've been trying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqwAEn-aPz0

[Cynthetik]

A character specific set-up I've been trying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqwAEn-aPz0

Wow, really nice piece of tech. Gonna have to mess around with this and see if there is a good solid way to set up that inescapable set up you show at the end.

[Random Naoto]

So depending on my work schedule this weekend (or possibly next weekend) I want to try hosting like an English Naoto Symposium stream where people can converse and throw out ideas and possibly come up with some new stuff and discuss leveling up our gameplay. Or alternatively we can all get drunk and complain about almost getting out of pools at EVO.

Decide the destiny. Anyone down?

[Zeromus_X]

So depending on my work schedule this weekend (or possibly next weekend) I want to try hosting like an English Naoto Symposium stream where people can converse and throw out ideas and possibly come up with some new stuff and discuss leveling up our gameplay. Or alternatively we can all get drunk and complain about almost getting out of pools at EVO.

Sounds like a plan. Would we be doing this over skype?

Edited July 23, 2013 by Zeromus_X