Elochai Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 I never knew you could mash out of bufu. I suppose it may be a better option to just forward tech and CH Liz, since bufu is horrible on whiff. Bufu catches every tech but forward tech btw. Is 5A > FC air throw a better option than 5A > air turn j.D? I think grab can be mashed out of as well, right? At least with j.D you're distanced from them, so it may be safer.
DudeUnderscore Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 I never knew you could mash out of bufu. I suppose it may be a better option to just forward tech and CH Liz, since bufu is horrible on whiff. Bufu catches every tech but forward tech btw. Is 5A > FC air throw a better option than 5A > air turn j.D? I think grab can be mashed out of as well, right? At least with j.D you're distanced from them, so it may be safer. well, even the super jump cancel grab i get mashed out sometimes and the timing on it is a bit weird sometimes (by the time they recover you have to delay the grab a bit after the apex of your jump). Either way they can mash out of all 3 I think. But i think 5A -> air turn j.D is the better option instead of b.bufu because you only lose 1 persona card instead of eating a free combo.
UmaiCakes Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 I agree that 5A/2B air turn j.D is the better option if you you're going for a midscreen reset, it can catch forward tech too @Umai: The thing I wouldn't like about jump cancelling 5B is that your combo will drop (unless I'm wrong, and there's some way you can continue the combo. Maybe height dependent?). I know that from certain heights, 2AB will make the burst totally whiff on you, as Liz is crouched, and the burst will usually touch the move's hitbox, but not Liz. Its just jump cancel block on reaction, its not too hard if you're expecting a burst after 5D/j.D After reacting to bursts in P4A, it seems so easy in BB lol
godofwar7 Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 Input D.Garu right as 5B reaches its max distance, and tap the D button on the first hit on the return back. should be about 14-16 hits before D.Garu picks them up. Thanks, I'm starting to get the hang of it. This shit too good.
Elochai Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) This is kinda silly, but I've been getting people with stuff > b.bufu > 2C (whiff) > 5D reset. The logic here is that your opponent will be too busy shaking the ice to see Thanatos coming. After they have been conditioned to jump/backdash, they can be caught with 5C. I dunno if b.bufu would work after 2C whiff, but if it would work, you could catch really far jump-backs and get them into the corner with b.bufu > sb.agi > stuff. Edit: Okay, so I actually decided to play the game and you can do b.bufu after 2C whiff (dunno why I'd think you couldn't). Basic combo is something like 214B FC > 214CD > 2B > j.B > j.236D [2] > 2AB > 236D [9~3] > 2A > 5B > 5C > j.C Edited February 7, 2013 by Elochai
DudeUnderscore Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) So after seen based elizabeth god Okusan, ive found some new things (for me atleast) for liz regarding pressuring: - 5AA -> jc is good for keeping pressure. I suggest making the opponent respect your pressure before starting to use 5AA -> jc -> air turn -> back dash -> j.A because they can just hit you for free in the air, dunno. -5AA -> 5B -> sweep is good for pressuring too. -5AA -> 5B -> 5C(1) -> 2D -> dash up -> 5AA seems to catch some people too. - 2D is good for faking out opponents and canceling sweep recovery - B.Bufu -> D.Agi is good for creating a new high low mix up - if you get a 5C Fatal counter, you can do : 5C FC -> 214A -> dash a bit -> 214A -> dash a bit -> 214A -> j.b -> d.garu[2] -> j.b -> j.C. about 4.1k damage meterless. -if you get your opponent in the air with j.a starter : j.a -> j.b -> C.Garu[2] -> OMC (after about 3-4 hits i guess) -> land -> 5A -> 5C -> combo. You dont get much damage off of it, but if you do a d.agi at the end of it you get a new mixup. * Regarding the b.bufu -> d.agi, it looks like some people might be able to mash out a super before the d.agi connects, dunno someone check. Edited February 14, 2013 by DudeUnderscore
Elochai Posted February 16, 2013 Posted February 16, 2013 Advanced shoutouts to Bace/Kobayashi for this stuff. Most of the characters in this game can have their AOAs punished with 236C granted that they recover in at least 12 frames. 236C has a start-up of 11 frames, so the AOA's recovery has to be longer than that. However, at longer ranges, it's harder to punish AOAs that recover faster, as you have to input 66 236C (I found it really hard on Akihiko, for example). Though it's harder, this is a better punish than 5A > stuff, since you can get 8k with 100 meter, or around 9k with 50 meter & OMB.
DudeUnderscore Posted February 16, 2013 Posted February 16, 2013 oh, another thing Reset : starter -> garu loop -> 2A -> 5AA -> jc -> air turn j.D
SansProtocol Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Just showing it is possible to combo off j.236C. Sorry for the quality of the vid, next few will look better.
Elochai Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 That looks like it could be character specific to me. Have you tried it everyone else? Good find nonetheless.
SansProtocol Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Worked on the ones I tested it on (Narukami, Mitsuru, Liz, Chie) and is only a bit more difficult with Chie, but still possible.
narga21 Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) i did this 5 in the morning so i was too tired to test on anyone else but while i was practicing sans' combo i did this combo by accident: 2b > j.b > j.a > j.c > 2a > 5b > 5c > 2c > b.bufu > ender i was also able to combo off j.236c with 2b > jc > j.b j.236c. requires to be higher up though and it seems a little more unstable but it might just be my execution edit: CH 2b Edited March 7, 2013 by narga21
susano Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 So I...posted videos in the improvement section for my liz. Be gentle pwease. >.> I know I still have a LOT to learn.
Elochai Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Alright, so I'm trying to unrust myself in training mode, and I found this j.D reset that's probably really crappy. After any combo that involves bufu in the corner, you can do j.A > jump cancel air turn > j.D for a reset. Catches every tech but neutral (slightly delay the j.D on upwards tech). It's so wacky that on forward tech, Thanatos gets summoned in front of Liz to grab the opponent. Furthermore, you can follow up CH/FC grab midscreen with omc 5AA > jump cancel air turn j.D for a reset. This works on every tech except neutral, and if you think the opponent will upwards tech, you have to delay the 5AA. Come to think of this, as I'm typing this and trying stuff, I think we can virtually get j.D off of any combo ending with 5A/5AA. I suppose it's a nice alternative to trying to go for tried and true 5C > j.D or 2AB > 5D. I bet this is something that everyone knows and I was just sleeping on it because it's rare that I think outside of the box.
Eshi Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 yeah you're a bit late on it lol. 5AA > air turn jD is a very good reset after things like comboing a crouching opponent with 5C > A Bufu > IAD jB > jC. Since they've already been frozen not much can be done after it anyway. if you land FC throw then don't waste 50 meter for a jD reset, at least not immediately since you can do Garu loops. Also I learned a meterless midscreen hitconfirm from The Liz God - dash 5B (VERY few hits) > 5C > A Bufu > dash buffer IAD jB > jC etc. Hitting with just the right number of 5B hits at the right height is very difficult but the payoff is enormous.
Elochai Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 66 5B after FC throw? That sounds crazy. I'll try to learn that combo, but I'm not too good at buffering dashes, so I'll see where it takes me. How much damage does it do in comparison to 2B > j.B > garu loop? If the combo is extremely hard, I'd rather go for guaranteed damage at the cost of meter. I know not to waste meter so haphazardly, lol. I was just saying it was possible to do it. After the third garu in the FC throw combo, you can just do 2A > 5AA > j.D, or some variation similar to that. I guess that the only reason to do the reset immediately is for yomi.
Elochai Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 Okay, so after some careful observation, 2D does about 1,200 unscaled damage from poison. This is kinda cool because it's still the exact same 1,200 damage during your opponents awakening as the damage is coming from a status ailment rather than an attack. Using 2D in combos would effectively turn some 7k combos into touch of death combos against the lower end HP characters like Liz through Yukiko, for example. The only foreseeable drawback in my opinion is that the most effective 2D combos use fatal counters, OMBs, or sometimes they require both of these. Of course you can still stick 2D after a 214B combo ender, but the only issue here is that if you're hit, you're losing that 1,200 damage. I have a really short video with some 2D stuff. The constant health drain in addition to your opponent being damaged is pretty cool. Shout-outs to Bace for helping me figure out this 2D stuff today.
YukiBlue Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 Yo my glorious continent is getting this game in 2 months. Get fucking hype... Right? Well. Anywho. Expect me to pollute these boards hardcore.
bace Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 Yo my glorious continent is getting this game in 2 months. About fucking time for you guys.
YukiBlue Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 We're getting it more or less an entire year after you guys. Shoutouts to Atlus
Elochai Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Okay, I may be losing my mind here, but did the video thread get moved or something? Can't seem to find it.
Kiba Posted March 21, 2013 Author Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Ok looks like it wasn't me, but still I'm unsure of what happened. While that's in the process, I urge you guys to link any videos you want here. It'll be temporary. Apologies for the inconveniance this has caused. It's being rebuilt. Thank you Kurushii I really appreciate it. In addition, if you're looking for new Elizabeth tech and stuff, I highly recommend suscribing to Bace's YT Channel. Edited March 21, 2013 by Kiba
Inferno702 Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I'm new to Liz. I can do my bnb consistently and whatnot. I just have a major issue with my neutral game. I have no idea what to do. I get stomped on before I get the chance to do anything. Can someone explain to me what I should be doing for a neutral game please?
Elochai Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 In my opinion, Elizabeth's neutral game is based around controlling the space with normals and some specials. A lot of players like to use backwards IAD j.B in neutral to keep their opponent away since it has a good hitbox, and it's active for a bit. Other normals of choice include 5B & 5C/2C. I like to use 5A/2A staggers in my pressure as well. I suppose the best way to put it is that as Elizabeth, you want your opponent to make mistakes while keeping yourself safe. You can use things like 5C, 2C (OMC) and 2D to catch your opponent doing things. Capitalize off their behaviors. If you want a more in-depth rundown of what to do, you can always check out the Liz wiki's strategy section, here.
Diveman Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 Did anyone check the write up at norematch.com? I think it's a very good read for Liz players as it talks about her weaknesses and how to improve her overall game http://www.norematch.com/2013/03/23/the-problems-with-p4u-elizabeth/
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