[P4A] Shadow Labrys - Gameplay Discussion

[MasterMind]

That's incredibly helpful.

Now I actually have to learn how to not suck with Shadow Labrys.

[TheRealBobMan]

Hey guys, I made a post in the general forum about this, but training mode seems to display frame count when using the record and playback functions, so it should be really simple to get the rest of the frame data, since we can pause/unpause at 1-frame intervals with the game counting for us. No need for recording equipment and editing software to get frame data.

Adelheid, do you remember how much hit-pause there was? Did it vary between moves? It shouldn't be a problem to figure that out, but it'd save time if you could give us some input. : )

Using this method, I'm getting the same number of startup frames for 5A that you posted, and the given data on AoAs lines up too. I'm pretty sure we can use this method for accurate results.

[Urichinan]

Hey guys, I made a post in the general forum about this, but training mode seems to display frame count when using the record and playback functions, so it should be really simple to get the rest of the frame data, since we can pause/unpause at 1-frame intervals with the game counting for us. No need for recording equipment and editing software to get frame data.

Adelheid, do you remember how much hit-pause there was? Did it vary between moves? It shouldn't be a problem to figure that out, but it'd save time if you could give us some input. : )

Using this method, I'm getting the same number of startup frames for 5A that you posted, and the given data on AoAs lines up too. I'm pretty sure we can use this method for accurate results.

This is interesting, it combined with the current method we might be able to get more accurate frame data.

Here's the corner version of my Titan combo:

I'm still working on them. :3

[TheRealBobMan]

For the record, in case people haven't tried it or thought about it yet, it doesn't seem like you can gold burst or use your instant kill while Asterius is doing something.

So no Gold Bursting during Titan for extra meter, and no Asterius pressure for IK tick-throw. I think you don't really get meter during Titan either (I've noticed it go up by 1 or 2%), though I'd like someone to confirm since I haven't really paid attention to that. Seems logical since you could probably build 50% easily with a Titan combo. : P

[Urichinan]

For the record, in case people haven't tried it or thought about it yet, it doesn't seem like you can gold burst or use your instant kill while Asterius is doing something.

So no Gold Bursting during Titan for extra meter, and no Asterius pressure for IK tick-throw. I think you don't really get meter during Titan either (I've noticed it go up by 1 or 2%), though I'd like someone to confirm since I haven't really paid attention to that. Seems logical since you could probably build 50% easily with a Titan combo. : P

Bursting requires your Persona, which is why you can't burst while Asterios is doing something. This is true for every character, Yu for instance can't burst while doing j.D or 5D because his Persona is out for so long. Mitsuru can't burst during her ice shard super, etc.

[Zouf]

Yesterday when I was messing around, I managed to get a comp set to crouch block to block deep jump-in j.B > dj.A, both standing. It's really hard and they tend to go back to crouching, but I was able to get it to happen more than once. Is this an accurate test for fuzzy guard? If the timing wasn't perfect, they'd go back to crouching and the dj.A would whiff.

Doesn't seem to work on Teddie - the bugger seems too short. I had it work on Mitsuru and I think Naoto though. It also works (possibly better!) if you do a jump turn and hit with the back part of the j.B. Maybe this could be used in crossup unblockables to make them harder to reversal super? They can always just Furious Action since it's 2 buttons and no directional input to mess up, but if it aims the wrong way, we'd still get to punish. Would make an in-your-face oki a little safer I think.

I mean, if you could time Buffalo Hammer in between the j.B and dj.A, you'd have a really scary mixup, even though on it's own, j.b > dj.A is a strong one since it's a 50/50 between that and j.B > 2A on landing. It's just that if you can cross them up while doing an unblockable with Buffalo and jump-in, it should be safer for us because now it's a 50/50 that they do their reversal input facing the right way, assuming most FAs whiff. It should also be a bit safer than Guillotine if they do the AB dash to escape. That command dash is completely invincible except for throws right?

I've already posted a fuzzy guard setup, but it only works on Yu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pQMt2tWkIA&feature=youtu.be

j.b and j.a are too slow to make decent instant overhead.

@Urichinan :

You shouldn't try to start your titanomachia combos by 2B > SC tita. It's impossible to confirm a FC in matches like that, unless you are punishing a very unsafe move. You should try to find the best with a 2B FC > j.b / 5B / whatever, then SC.

Also in corner you can 5B FC > AoA D > combo. You should look this way for max damages and efficienty in corner.

I played a bit yesterday, and people tend to mash between the revolver action 2B > 5B, which often leads to a fatal because it's a good frametrap.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Zouf

[Urichinan]

I've already posted a fuzzy guard setup, but it only works on Yu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pQMt2tWkIA&feature=youtu.be

j.b and j.a are too slow to make decent instant overhead.

@Urichinan :

You shouldn't try to start your titanomachia combos by 2B > SC tita. It's impossible to confirm a FC in matches like that, unless you are punishing a very unsafe move. You should try to find the best with a 2B FC > j.b / 5B / whatever, then SC.

Also in corner you can 5B FC > AoA D > combo. You should look this way for max damages and efficienty in corner.

I played a bit yesterday, and people tend to mash between the revolver action 2B > 5B, which often leads to a fatal because it's a good frametrap.

It's really not hard to confirm a 2B, especially the dash 5A variant. The corner one is harder, but if you hit a airborne opponent you have a ton of time to confirm. But I understand what you mean. Also, FC 5B > AoA D also requires extra meter do to good damage. Unless you have some new EXless version, it's not worth the extra 25 SP IMO, when you could save it for another Titanomachia mixup, or a Brutal Impact reversal. AoA C though, you should be able to do the Air Guillotine Axe setup into Titan for a good bit of damage.

[Zouf]

I haven't tried corner titanomachia combos yet tbh. I just know you can FC 5B > FC AoA D > 5AA > 2B > stuff. Maybe there is something to do with this.

[Adelheid]

revolver action 2B > 5B

... Neither here nor there, but... "Revolver Action" just sounds so goofy to me, and is blazblue-specific (though, one could argue, not more much goofy than guilty gears's "gatling combination"). Chain cancel is such a more natural term...

Adelheid, do you remember how much hit-pause there was? Did it vary between moves? It shouldn't be a problem to figure that out, but it'd save time if you could give us some input. : )

It's move-dependent. I'll get back to you on this in 3 hours.

interesting... i was trying to see if i could loop 5C > 214214A after a fatal counter in the corner and the last 5C literally did 0 damage in this combo and let them tech instantly, at the end:

fc 5B > run 5A > 5B(5C) > 2AB > 2B > jBB > djA(5C) > air 214A > sc 214214A (wait 5C)

strange.

I've encountered the same thing. Looks like if the proration value would go under the instant-tech time, moves also do 0 damage unless they have a minimum damage set.

[Urichinan]

Here's the improved mid-screen combo:

[Tong]

Great, need to get it down immediately, even though I'd rather to save 100 SP for the CH BD 4k combo =o

[Adelheid]

Great, need to get it down immediately, even though I'd rather to save 100 SP for the CH BD 4k combo =o

... 4k? BD Titan (8D, 214D), 9j j.A j.214A (8D), sj 214B (214D), 214124B is 4.45k.

Edit: This string doesn't work if you're cornered, but you most likely will not be cornered it Asterius is there to let you do BD Titan.

[TheRealBobMan]

Hey, the guys in the other thread said that it might just be an arbitrary timer and that we shouldn't use data compiled this way. Next chance you get, could you record the actual recording timer and check to see if it runs at the game's speed like I think it does? It probably wont be as accurate as the traditional method, or as detailed, but we can quickly compile startup time and static difference. Stuff like hit-pause and recovery might be easier when I know what I'm looking at, but I can't think of a way to get active frames or any of that stuff.

Also, we should account for console variance. Might want to mention if you're playing on PS3 or 360. I remember hearing something about BB running at fewer frames on 360 than on PS3, so when an arcade stick was somehow hooked up to both consoles at the same time (I don't know how that worked), the same input would combo on one and drop on the other.

[Adelheid]

Hey, the guys in the other thread said that it might just be an arbitrary timer and that we shouldn't use data compiled this way. Next chance you get, could you record the actual recording timer and check to see if it runs at the game's speed like I think it does? It probably wont be as accurate as the traditional method, or as detailed, but we can quickly compile startup time and static difference. Stuff like hit-pause and recovery might be easier when I know what I'm looking at, but I can't think of a way to get active frames or any of that stuff.

Also, we should account for console variance. Might want to mention if you're playing on PS3 or 360. I remember hearing something about BB running at fewer frames on 360 than on PS3, so when an arcade stick was somehow hooked up to both consoles at the same time (I don't know how that worked), the same input would combo on one and drop on the other.

... No, when they say it "runs faster" on 360 they're referring to display time. PS3 has no hardware upscalers, the vast majority of games run at 720p, while all common monitors have native resolution of 1080p. On PS3, it outputs at 720p, and is upscaled by the TV to be able to be displayed. This process is time consuming and causes lag. But for 360, which has extremely fast hardware upscaling, you can set it to 1080p display and the tv can just output the signal it gets, which is quite a bit faster (I recall tests indicating up to 2 frames on some monitors.) However, a 360 outputting at 720p offers no such advantage, and 720p is the common thing to use for recording purposes.

[susano]

How the hell does anyone do air juggles? I'm having such a hard time with this.

[Urichinan]

How the hell does anyone do air juggles? I'm having such a hard time with this.

The timing on j.B > dj.B is super tight, it took me a while to get it down. And to be honest it still gives me trouble. When doing 2C > j.B juggles make sure j.B hits after the last flame, otherwise the juggle will be using the flame's hitstun, and not the hitstun from j.B, which lasts longer. For example 5A(2C)A > (2C Hits) j.B > dj.B doesn't work unless you hit with j.B after the final hit of 2C.

[TheRealBobMan]

Ok, I think I can safely confirm that IK combos work on everyone, if it hasn't been stated before (I don't remember that being in the video ).

Huzzah. Now to work on real combos, and multiple setups for the IK combo. Only unfortunate thing is that it looks like you need Titan 8C > Flame to launch them high enough to catch them as they fall. Even CH 8C wont work because Asterius is active and the game wont let you throw out the IK. The flame works because he recovers in time, but it doesn't look like they'll go high enough without a launcher like 8C before it to get them high in the air, although you could probably combo them that high. The problem with that is you wont be on the ground to go into IK mode and then throw it out in time.

So... I don't see any feasible way to IK without Awakening.

Fortunately, you can Gold Burst in IK mode, so even if you only have 100 meter, you could go into IK mode when you have an opening, then Gold Burst, then do a setup. Or for lulz, if you Gold Burst with them in the corner, you can just IK out of recovery and try to frame trap their tech. :V

Hm... maybe I can work on some combos that chain as many FAs and Super Cancels as possible just to get awakening mode, for non-serious play of course.

[ForgoneMoose]

Shadow Labrys basics tutorial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXcKUC6YffE

[Adelheid]

Shadow Labrys basics tutorial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXcKUC6YffE

You forgot to mention that it's unwatchably obnoxious.

[susano]

Shadow Labrys basics tutorial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXcKUC6YffE

>_> Thanks. It helps.

[Zouf]

@Urichinan

Nice discovery. Unfortunatly, j.BB needs to connect at the lowest possible, which is kind of hard to pull off.

I think i'll stick to 2B FC > j.B > dj.B > j.214B > SC 214214C (2C, 5C) > 5AA > 2B > (2C) > j.B > j.214B > (5C)

It requires no timing at all and deals 54xx damages. That's the best I came up with a 2B FC starter :x

[Urichinan]

@Urichinan

Nice discovery. Unfortunatly, j.BB needs to connect at the lowest possible, which is kind of hard to pull off.

I think i'll stick to 2B FC > j.B > dj.B > j.214B > SC 214214C (2C, 5C) > 5AA > 2B > (2C) > j.B > j.214B > (5C)

It requires no timing at all and deals 54xx damages. That's the best I came up with a 2B FC starter :x

It's actually not hard at all, if you wait until they fall a little bit, and then jump all you have to do is delay the second j.B. That's a lot easier then delaying the first j.B, and is more consistent for the wallbounce I think.

[TheRealBobMan]

What are effective ways to set up oki such that you can catch them with the laser into flame pillar when they tech or get up, forcing them to block, which seems to give incredibly safe oki?

There's enough block-stun to run in for a blockstring 5AA > 5B > 214ABD (Ex Guillotine + Buffalo) > 214B. First, the 5AA > 5B gives enough time for Asterius to recover. Then, the overhead on 214B can be timed to hit on the same frame as buffalo for a true unblockable, and they're stuck in block stun the whole time, assuming there isn't a gap in 5A > 5AA > 5B, which there doesn't seem to be. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

You can get knockdown + 2000 damage safely this way, since you can bait/punish any escape attempt on the laser, and their only options once their in blockstun are spend meter on a Dead Angle / Alpha Counter / Whatever it's called in this game, or waste their burst here instead of saving it for Titan combos, meaning they're going to lose 50+% health for 100 meter or get IK'd if you have 150. You can also OMC on reaction to the unblockable working and combo out of it (6FRC6 like you're doing Chemical Love combos), or could potentially just do a second EX Guillotine instead of the regular one since it has more stun than the regular one and would work for 25% less, but I haven't tested that.

The only unfortunate thing is that the reward seems to be the best when you get the true unblockable. It's honestly not that hard when you consider that people practice 1-frame links all the time, and this is just making sure that the two hits connect on the same frame, but it sucks if you're off and get the mixup with the low, since it does barely any damage. You can spend 25% for EX buffalo, but I'm not sure it's worth it. I feel like we should be spending little meter to do guaranteed unblockables, and just loop them to win off of 1 hit like Eddie does.

[MasterMind]

Any tips for connecting j.214B>Titanomachia>5A? It seems like the timing on the super cancel is extremely specific if you want the 5A followup.

[Urichinan]

Any tips for connecting j.214B>Titanomachia>5A? It seems like the timing on the super cancel is extremely specific if you want the 5A followup.

Make sure you get it as early as possible for the last hit of j.214B, with perfect timing the last hit of j.214B will actually connect AFTER the super starts up, like a delayed explosion. With good timing you'll get it as soon as the last hit connects. Make sure that you're still slightly airborne when you do it, because you need to input it quickly.