Blackout2021 Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 So are poeple using the default box layout for Shadow Labrys? I tried it for like 30 seconds and couldn't imagine how it would be trying to block with Asterios and pressing other buttons moving around. So I switched it to the Blazblue layout in A B C at the top and D on the bottom. But I feel like this could hinder my gameplay when wanting to play other characters. Any tips.?
-Seo Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 So are poeple using the default box layout for Shadow Labrys? I tried it for like 30 seconds and couldn't imagine how it would be trying to block with Asterios and pressing other buttons moving around. So I switched it to the Blazblue layout in A B C at the top and D on the bottom. But I feel like this could hinder my gameplay when wanting to play other characters. Any tips.? I was actually thinking of using the BB layout for Shabrys myself, as it seems like it'd be comfier. I can kinda see where you're coming from about it making other characters a bit stranger to use due o being unfamiliar with the default layout though, but I guess it's something that'll just become familiar over time? :c
Adelheid Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 So are poeple using the default box layout for Shadow Labrys? I tried it for like 30 seconds and couldn't imagine how it would be trying to block with Asterios and pressing other buttons moving around. So I switched it to the Blazblue layout in A B C at the top and D on the bottom. But I feel like this could hinder my gameplay when wanting to play other characters. Any tips.? I'm using box layout. It's pretty easy, imo... It wasn't as awkward as I thought it might be. It really helps to have everything in a box for all the macros. I'd say, just get used to it. If you've ever played KoF in box layout, for instance, it's not too dissimilar, just have one finger per button, just your hand isn't laid out the same way as for blazblue. Still, if you feel it's a problem, do whatever you like to do. Button config is at the character select menu, so there'll never be issues in random local meets.
Urichinan Posted August 7, 2012 Author Posted August 7, 2012 I'm going to run BB style with A= Square, B= Triangle, C= Circle and D= X, then play it crab claw style so I can hit all the macros and still be able to block with Asterios easily.
Blackout2021 Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 The funny thing is that KoF is my main game and I do box layout for that no problem. Its just the awkwardness of trying to hold down that D button to block. Though I decided to switch back to box now. I figure it would definitely be easier to get used to that than trying to memorize all the different macro positions that I need to learn off of the Blazblue set up. My grab being on C and D is awful as hell.
Adelheid Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 Oh, and since I don't think it's been mentioned, if you do a dash up throw (for instance, if Asterius is covering you and you're going in for three-way mixup) then depending on distance to Asterius you can get a midscreen throw combo by OTGing with 2C. You can't really get much off of it that I can tell, but I think it's interesting. You can at least get a bit more damage and easily set up your okizeme.
Zouf Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 I don't know what you are using but your values are way off. Your SP Gain values should be more defined doing the move multiple times then dividing by the number of times done. 5A for instance is a ~2.7% SP Gain. Your frame data is way off the mark. Don't know what capture card and software you are using but it's no where near accurate. Her 5A is ~7f, 2A ~7f, 5B ~15f, 2B ~25f. Her throw is 5f like the rest of the cast. I'm going to take a wild guess that you are recording at 29.97 fps. If you are going to assist in frame data you need to be doing it at 60.00 fps. :3 Na it's not all accurate but in no way "way off". Her 5A just can't be 7f, that would mean it's at at least -5 on guard, because it's punishable with the same 5A on IB. Also i took the first number that comes off at 0 sp for the sp meter, and seriously, who cares if it's 2 or 2,3 or 2,5 even? It's to give a general idea, like 5AAA gives ALOT of SP.
Zouf Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 Wanted to correct myself with her 2B. After a lot of matches, it's actually really good. It's slow, so you'll have to time it well, but it wins against pretty much everything in the Air. Also, it recovers very fast on whiff which makes it hard to whiff punish. A great move to abuse in every matchup.
Kurushii Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 Na it's not all accurate but in no way "way off". Her 5A just can't be 7f, that would mean it's at at least -5 on guard, because it's punishable with the same 5A on IB. Also i took the first number that comes off at 0 sp for the sp meter, and seriously, who cares if it's 2 or 2,3 or 2,5 even? It's to give a general idea, like 5AAA gives ALOT of SP. Mitsuru's is also 7f. 7f is not horrible. Admins on the site wanted the values to be as accurate as possible and I been working on the wiki assisting with such data since the JP release. If you want to pull a attitude and not do it correct then take it elsewhere. Im just giving you the facts so you can do the job correct and not waste your time.
Adelheid Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 Na it's not all accurate but in no way "way off". Her 5A just can't be 7f, that would mean it's at at least -5 on guard, because it's punishable with the same 5A on IB. Also i took the first number that comes off at 0 sp for the sp meter, and seriously, who cares if it's 2 or 2,3 or 2,5 even? It's to give a general idea, like 5AAA gives ALOT of SP. Unfortunately Kurushii is right. It really looks like, even if you're recording at the right speed, you're at least viewing frames at 29.997. My own testing matches up with roughly twice yours, as does all the data I've already seen.
Nakkiel Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 If you're going to be changing your button layout: ACD B would be the best way for comfort, imo. Also useful for people that are used to BlazBlue throw tech. I found it extremely awkward trying to break throws in the default setup, it's only amplified that you have to manually block with Asterios. Macros are also more or less in the same spot.
Zouf Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 Mitsuru's is also 7f. 7f is not horrible. Admins on the site wanted the values to be as accurate as possible and I been working on the wiki assisting with such data since the JP release. If you want to pull a attitude and not do it correct then take it elsewhere. Im just giving you the facts so you can do the job correct and not waste your time. You were right i apologize. I'll double check that and make sure it's always at 60 fps. Thanks for the tip 5A is indeed 7f and -5 on guard.
Urichinan Posted August 8, 2012 Author Posted August 8, 2012 On my way back to TN, and when I get home I can finally play P4U. I'll be updating the combo and the video threads later today.
UltraDavid Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 I don't really get how this character is considered weak. People are worried about getting persona broken right now because we're all ass at controlling Asterion. Maybe getting persona broken will always be a concern for Shadow, but we'll certainly get better at controlling Asterion such that it become less of an issue than it might seem right now. And when I've been broken, obviously offense is worse, but she seems mobile enough and has good enough mid range options that it doesn't totally kill her. People also seem worried that she gets rushed down, but that's just a character archetype that you have to be ok with. When a character seems as strong on her own offense and midrange as this character, it's probably better that she not have the best defense. But ps in a game where everyone has roll, invincible furious action, alpha counter, un ground throwable hop, and invincible off the ground backdash, I'm not as worried about it as I might be in others. Anyway, man, I'm so excited in her potential. Gonna be working on setups!
Urichinan Posted August 8, 2012 Author Posted August 8, 2012 The problem with Asterios is that he can still be hit during the startup of his attacks, and there's nothing you can do to stop that. He has armor, but it can be easily broken and he'll take the damage. Otherwise, you are correct, eventually people will figure out how to keep him safe with Shadow Labyrs, so the opponent is forced to go on the defensive out of fear of being hit from one of the two characters attacking. 8C I think will be important in moving with Asterios and setting up pressure, oki and keeping him safe. From what I understand, he can't be hit while underground, so the only options they have is to hit Shadow Labrys or block the mixup. Also, holy crap it's UltraDavid.
Zouf Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Her real issues are her very low health pool, and that she awakens her true potential (and damaging combos) in awakening mode. The last part is really her biggest weakness imo. Edited August 8, 2012 by Zouf
Siefer Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 I don't really think anyone considers her "weak" in the absolute sense, but rather the relative sense. It's not that she's weak individually, it's just that compared to the characters above her, you have a harder time winning for various reasons.
Adelheid Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 I hope you aren't looking at the tiers here <_< They're super out of date. Last I knew, the tiers looked something like this; ehrik tweeted it just before sbo: S: kuma, mitsuru, aigis a: chie, narukami, labrys, shabrys B: yosuke, yukiko, elizabeth C: kanji, naoto, akihiko So no, Shadow Labrys isn't considered weak, lol.
ANhiro Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 Thoughts It's annoying how any strong combos outside awakening is pretty much always off of a Persona Starter, the plus side it's really easy to get a knockdown to start the Oki game. Also another thought, I think Slab may actually be stronger midscreen than in the corner, due to not being able to crossup at all in the corner. Her blockstrings are relatively short and unsafe, using the bull to attempt to make it safe in the corner id questionable because it recovers too slowly to do another mixup. Persona wise, I really don't think it is as weak as people make it out to be, the armor actually holds up against a lot of attacks. Also, the opponent's trying to break the bull mentality can help you easily score the knockdown to get the oki game started, as you can punish their attempt to break asterios at the cost of 1 persona gauge. Also, her AoA is one of the better ones because of its range, and can be used as a ghetto focus attack at times, such as countering other AoAs, calling out obvious mitsuru drills, etc.
Adelheid Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 And because Shadow Lab has one of the fastest AoAs. That helps too! It's a legit standing overhead, and especially in the corner it leads to some reeeeal good stuff.
Adelheid Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 1-16 no armor, 17-27 armor, 27-30 active, 31-62 recovery.
Zouf Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 Thoughts Also another thought, I think Slab may actually be stronger midscreen than in the corner, due to not being able to crossup at all in the corner. Her blockstrings are relatively short and unsafe, using the bull to attempt to make it safe in the corner id questionable because it recovers too slowly to do another mixup. I dont think so. In corner she has incredible mix ups, blockstrings and potentially unblockables. 214C + 5A+B is a basic, but works wonder. 214C+2B is also a unblockable if your opponent tries to avoid the low hit by jumping. The persona throw doesn't work so well on midscreen too, but works pretty decently in corner. Well i'd say she's even, midscreen or corner, mixups wise. In any case her okizeme options are kinda godlike, maybe a bit broken sometimes
susano Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 ....-raises hand- How do you do AoA? I've been working to understand Shadow's basics and I'm not doing bad so far.
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