[P4A] Akihiko Gameplay Discussion

[Dacidbro]

Skye's right, short hop sucks for everything but grab bait. Other than that it's really hard to find much of a reason to use it in offense unless someone is just absolutely stone cold resolute not to mash, in which case you can continually reset your cyclone to 0 if that's desirable, using short hop jB d2A

[I GOT DEM HANDS]

Why are you short hopping when you already have like the shortest jump in the game?

[E For Eugene]

You can short hop out of boomerang hook which is otherwise not possible to do.

[Chazmobile]

Skye's right, short hop sucks for everything but grab bait. Other than that it's really hard to find much of a reason to use it in offense unless someone is just absolutely stone cold resolute not to mash, in which case you can continually reset your cyclone to 0 if that's desirable, using short hop jB d2A

You can also do Duck>AoA to bait grabs as well for big damage after you've conditioned them. At least, it's always worked for me.

5k for 50 meter in the corner off an overhead is too good to pass up.

[Ajsnipes9]

Hmmm did not realize the short hop resets the cyclone meter. This could be used effectively if u have 150 meter and want to do the triple upper cut tactic which has come in handy a bundle of times for me. Hmm if you some how miraculously manage to stun them with a boomerang hook fatal counter then short hop into a triple upper that would do damage

Edited August 14, 2012 by Ajsnipes9

[Dacidbro]

Hmmm did not realize the short hop resets the cyclone meter. This could be used effectively if u have 150 meter and want to do the triple upper cut tactic which has come in handy a bundle of times for me. Hmm if you some how miraculously manage to stun them with a boomerang hook fatal counter then short hop into a triple upper that would do damage

In this context, you would be better off looping high level Cyclone Maziodyne, with something similar to the challenge mode combo (L3 BD > 214214D 214D 6C BD 214214D)

But in this context even then, you're probably better off with a combo that is very long, then finishes with level 2 > level 3 super.

[ShelledMenace]

What the heck lol. I'm trying this out.

[Aki-]

I was straight tripping about that. GGS bro! (:

[ChrisFGC]

Idk if anyone knows this, but if you hold the D button, it will actually delay when Cesar uses the suction move. He will only do it when you let go, and you are free to act while holding down D. It seems letting to of D will cause the suction even if you're in the middle of a move like kill rush. This seems to be very very interesting as far as set ups go. Also idk if it's documented anywhere but Akihikos D actually has a ton of invulnerability in the middle of it. It's only punishable on startup and briefly at the end.

[zyphur]

What I recently found out is his thunder fist special literally lasts until you get hit. Period. Im still dipping in the kitty pool with it, but when you wrap your head around the fact their STUCK where they are if you keep poking them, possibilities open up. Especially against characters like yosuke. my problem with it right now is that 5c doesn't reset theyre paralysis. You have to be very careful when poking them without it.

[Ross]

Maybe we should talk more about akihiko pressure strings. I haven't been able to play any where but online so its been hard finding the right things to do as everyone just mashes alot.

obviously there are other important things like getting in, but I feel like Aki's basic pressure strings are where he is strongest so Maybe we can talk about options we use and what is most successful for us.

Starting with I figure might as well go with teh basic blocked killrush

Options I use

back+a, weave back+B (charge or not) for frame trapping this kind of works though mashing seems to hit me out? am I not doing it fast enough

back+a, f+C throw or dp straight up guessing game, though I seem to get hit out of the dp before it starts up occaisonally especially if they are mashing is this always the case or am I doing it to slow again?

back+a, b+d I try to use this as a bait but I feel like I always get hit out is this useful at all?

sweep, or c basic overhead or low, also nice to sometimes do like a duck or a weave before hand to really mix it up (also you can increase level over you AoA which is fastest in the game at lvl 3

Things I want to use:

back+a, weave back+ab - seems useful for autoguard to catch mashers? is this worth it at high level?

EX duck mixups - seems like its not really that good since you always go to the same place?

EX Weave - maybe the better choice if people are mashing? not much experience, maybe other people find it useful?

[kaeru]

[...] (also you can increase level over you AoA which is fastest in the game at lvl 3

[...]

whoa ! Is that really true? i had no idea his AoA was affected by cyclone gauge. That's amazing !

[zyphur]

That's inaccurate. Your AOA is not affected by your cyclone gauge. Also pressure wise, I have a general triangle I do.

Kill rush>boomerang hook A>sweep. Do it till they block

kill rush>boomerang hook A>5c. Mix up between these two till they start mashing out 2a, or their R-action

Kill rush>boomerang hook A>4d>(whiff)>Corkscrew>major punish

If they sit there and simply block low and can recognize ceasar and block high, I just go in and throw them with level 3 cyclone. If they're quick enough even still to tech it, you have a hard match ahead of you.

[kaeru]

That's inaccurate. Your AOA is not affected by your cyclone gauge.

figured it was too good to be true !

[Ross]

The wiki is your friend

"Becomes faster AND safer when done at higher cyclone levels. Exact data still missing."

Also from AoA frame data thread

Akihiko Sanada

Startup varies by cyclone level (level zero is shown). At level 3, it becomes the fastest startup AOA. The attack part is long so it's good for hitting backsteps, too.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?14789-Frame-Data-for-All-Out-Attacks

[shtkn]

i added that sentence to the wiki. my source:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?14789-Frame-Data-for-All-Out-Attacks

the arcadia thing mentions faster startup at higher levels. iirc it was also tested that it becomes safer, but i don't have a source for that bit. probably needs to be taken out if we can't confirm it.

[kaeru]

im at work for now but i'll be sure to test it when i get home. It's not impossible to think that it might work on a scripted attack like AoA, since R-Action also is affected by cyclone gauge. Also worth noting, it might be possible to mess it up and lose the cyclone gauge before it comes out while testing, leading to mixed results.

[zyphur]

Im going to have to go and personally verify this myself. I'm pretty sure it doesn't effect the actual AOA. You won't get a better squeeze out of a lvl 3 AOA. But execution and recovery Ill look into.

[Ross]

Yeah I didn't mean it actually changed what the AoA did. Just startup and recovery.

[zyphur]

ok so I tested it out, it only works meterless from what im seeing. There's no way to prioritize AOA over ex corkscrew. Which makes it really impractical.

[LionHeartx]

ok so I tested it out, it only works meterless from what im seeing. There's no way to prioritize AOA over ex corkscrew. Which makes it really impractical.

Can't you just.....y'know....not input a direction?

[Dacidbro]

ok so I tested it out, it only works meterless from what im seeing. There's no way to prioritize AOA over ex corkscrew. Which makes it really impractical.

Ah.. you mean other than just not holding forward?

However, in this same vein of thought, you actually can not backwards grab during cyclone once you have 25 meter, for the same reason. Overlap of 4CD being back grab and EX Sway. If anyone has a work around, would be great. Alternatively, some kind of flashy L2-3 grab launch-side switch combo would be as effective anyway.

[Wonder_Chef]

Ah.. you mean other than just not holding forward?

However, in this same vein of thought, you actually can not backwards grab during cyclone once you have 25 meter, for the same reason. Overlap of 4CD being back grab and EX Sway. If anyone has a work around, would be great. Alternatively, some kind of flashy L2-3 grab launch-side switch combo would be as effective anyway.

I think if you press 1CD it will still throw backwards.

[Ross]

Hmm I'll look when I have time but I swear when I was messing around in training I could pretty easily back throw after like weave -> duck -> backthrow.. hmmm maybe Im misremembering though.

[kaeru]

The trick is you have to flash a weave first. If you do duck -> weave -> backthrow it will work. Probably not the kind of solution you wanted but it is valid. It MIGHT also be possible to delay the backthrow just beyond the duck's cancel window so that it can't give you a weave, but this can't be any faster then just flashing weave and doing backthrow.

Also i tested the AoA as well, and it seems to get affected by cyclone level, you can see the red shadow trail while he is doing it with 3 cyclone. As mentioned earlier, to make it work just don't input any directionals when pressing AB.