[P4A] Yu Narukami - Beginner Thread / Q&A

[floatwater]

If you do 214A/B/AB no sweep. just go straight into oki.

So the first option is:

1) OMC > 5B > j.C > 214A (whoooppsss) > 5D since 214A will make the opponent hit the ground to tech.

2) OMC > j.C > 214A > 2B > so forth for DAMAGE.

[Fistmaster049]

If you do 214A/B/AB no sweep. just go straight into oki.

So the first option is:

1) OMC > 5B > j.C > 214A (whoooppsss) > 5D since 214A will make the opponent hit the ground to tech.

2) OMC > j.C > 214A > 2B > so forth for DAMAGE.

oh ok cool, thanks dude I'll get right to work on these

the tourney I attended to today really did remind me why I love this character, no-one can seem to stop the terror of..The Izanagi sandwitch :D

lol

[Agito]

I know it's possible to get crossup cross-slash off of grab > OMB > C slide > cross-slash but is there a way to follow up with a second cross slash? In training mode they always tech before I can do anything.

[Chris Chaos]

There's an easier combo off of C+D > OMB to get two cross slashes:

C+D > OMB > 66 > 214214C > 2B (One Hit) > 214214C: 4502 Damage

You're spending 100 Meter on a combo that does less than 5K, I wouldn't use this combo unless it's going to kill and they don't have a burst.

[Fistmaster049]

Another probably fairly newish question if I may, mostly just confirming something

when I use D slide - OMB - 5D.... sometimes Izanagi hits 2 times and I can hit it fine, but sometimes he hits 3 times and messes up my timing

remembering for the combo I'm going for I am aiming for OMB - 5D - 66 2AB - B Lion

my guess is that after I use the OMB, its the timing on when I actually press 5D, if I do it the second I touch the ground (3 hits) or a frame or 2 after I land (2 times)

I'm I correct in assuming this? I'm I missing something? or should I aim for learning a new combo all together in case it hits 3 times?

[VR-Raiden]

Another probably fairly newish question if I may, mostly just confirming something

when I use D slide - OMB - 5D.... sometimes Izanagi hits 2 times and I can hit it fine, but sometimes he hits 3 times and messes up my timing

remembering for the combo I'm going for I am aiming for OMB - 5D - 66 2AB - B Lion

my guess is that after I use the OMB, its the timing on when I actually press 5D, if I do it the second I touch the ground (3 hits) or a frame or 2 after I land (2 times)

I'm I correct in assuming this? I'm I missing something? or should I aim for learning a new combo all together in case it hits 3 times?

From what I understand, it mostly has to do with how high they are when the OMB hits, but it could also be that your 5D is hitting earlier/later. Depending on the starter before the OMB you should be able to tell if it will hit 2 or 3 times. Also Teddie tends to cause 3 hit 5D more than other characters I believe.

3 hit will mess up the corner OMB combo 5D 2A+B 214B 214A 5DD etc, so on Teddie you just omit the sweep there, or just do a mid-to-corner combo.

it can mess you up if you weren't expecting 5D to hit 3 times if you're doing certain OMB combos, but the real simple ones it doesn't really matter.

[Fistmaster049]

From what I understand, it mostly has to do with how high they are when the OMB hits, but it could also be that your 5D is hitting earlier/later. Depending on the starter before the OMB you should be able to tell if it will hit 2 or 3 times. Also Teddie tends to cause 3 hit 5D more than other characters I believe.

3 hit will mess up the corner OMB combo 5D 2A+B 214B 214A 5DD etc, so on Teddie you just omit the sweep there, or just do a mid-to-corner combo.

it can mess you up if you weren't expecting 5D to hit 3 times if you're doing certain OMB combos, but the real simple ones it doesn't really matter.

Usual non counter combo I aim for is 2B - 5B - 5C - 214D - OMB - so on ,its just something I'm going to have to look for in practice to see whether I'll get the third hit or not

I guess I could just use 5D - 66 5B - 214B - 5DD I'm still getting used to OMB combos but this one seems to land 9 times out of 10 on everyone regardless of third hit or not

[VR-Raiden]

Usual non counter combo I aim for is 2B - 5B - 5C - 214D - OMB - so on ,its just something I'm going to have to look for in practice to see whether I'll get the third hit or not

I guess I could just use 5D - 66 5B - 214B - 5DD I'm still getting used to OMB combos but this one seems to land 9 times out of 10 on everyone regardless of third hit or not

From 214D OMB you're pretty much always gonna get 2 hits, except on Teddie. off the top of my head I remember getting 3 hits unexpectedly off throw OMB, or any confirm that can vary with the OMB height, like timing an air hit 5C OMB.

yeah doing just dash 5B to start is easy mode. Less damage (how much less depends a lot on starter) but for OMB combos, you really really don't want to drop it. Especially if easy mode will kill them anyway. So needless to say its worth learning stronger ones but only go for them if you're super confident you won't drop it.

If you havent checked em out yet, SKD made lots of good OMB vids. also there's a number listed in the wiki.

[Kikuichimonji]

I'm not confident I know exactly how Narukami's knockdown works in P4, so I'd like to post what I know about it, and if I'm wrong, hopefully someone will correct me.

1. 2AB -> Immediate 5D will hit meaty twice, and catch them for a yellow OTG if they do anything but immediately tech.
   
2. 2AB -> Delayed 5D will hit meaty 3 times if they immediately tech, but if they delay their tech, the 5D whiffs completely
   
3. j.2A always gets a knockdown on hit
   
4. On an OTG 5D hit, you can always do 5B -> 5DD -> j.2A (I know about 5D -> j.b -> 5DD -> 2AB at low proration).
   
5. If you choose not to tech at all, there is a window before you rise where you can pick up from the floor into a new combo. I don't know if this combo is scaled at all.(Can Narukami do this off of his safe jump j.b setups off throw?)
   
6. 
   

Also, Narukami is down frames after 2C -> backdash cancel, right? I see lots of videos where people go out of their way to respect Yu after this blockstring, and I get confused. Thanks.

[VR-Raiden]

I'm not confident I know exactly how Narukami's knockdown works in P4, so I'd like to post what I know about it, and if I'm wrong, hopefully someone will correct me.

1. 2AB -> Immediate 5D will hit meaty twice, and catch them for a yellow OTG if they do anything but immediately tech.
   
2. 2AB -> Delayed 5D will hit meaty 3 times if they immediately tech, but if they delay their tech, the 5D whiffs completely
   
3. j.2A always gets a knockdown on hit
   
4. On an OTG 5D hit, you can always do 5B -> 5DD -> j.2A (I know about 5D -> j.b -> 5DD -> 2AB at low proration).
   
5. If you choose not to tech at all, there is a window before you rise where you can pick up from the floor into a new combo. I don't know if this combo is scaled at all.(Can Narukami do this off of his safe jump j.b setups off throw?)
   
6. 
   

Also, Narukami is down frames after 2C -> backdash cancel, right? I see lots of videos where people go out of their way to respect Yu after this blockstring, and I get confused. Thanks.

1. Yes, unless you're at super max range where it connects once but thats rare.

2. Yes, but there is actually timing after sweep to have 5D hit 3 times yet still pick up with the OTG. It's a very slight delay after sweep, if you can get this timing consistently it's the way to go needless to say. Won't work from very far hitting sweep though, they will be able to delay tech through it regardless, so go for immediate 5D after a long range sweep (unless they don't realize they can delay tech 3 hit 5D).

3. Yeah j.2A always knocks down on hit, so it's the preferred air combo ender when you can do it.

4. Not sure about 5B > 5DD > j.2A always getting the knockdown, usually the go-to ender at high prorate is just 5D(OTG) > j.2A, that way you have your 5DD available as a meaty. This works from almost any combo, only thing I can think of is some FC combos that don't even let you get close enough to the opponent to j.2A before they tech after the 5D(OTG).

5. Yes there are some setups where you can OTG pick up if they try to delay tech. In any knockdown where you can't get meaty 5D, you can pick up with 2A > 2B/5B etc, depends on the starter how much you can do. After safejump setups, it's actually possible to do a super low OTG j.A 5A etc if they try to delay tech through your safejump attack. Unfortunately they can delay tech your safejump attack and make that j.A whiff through the tech with the same timing if they do it right so that won't happen often.

Probably the most common times where you will get an OTG combo are after non-safejump knockdowns, like after air hit j.2A. The opponent can choose to delay tech after these to try to mess up your meaty attempts (like meaty 214A>5A link, AoA, 236D etc). One combo which I know for sure works is after anti-air 2B > 5C > sj.B > j.BB > j.2A (opponent tries to delay tech) 2A > 2B/5B > j.C > j.214B. Gets you extra corner carry, damage, and knockdown (delay-techable 5D oki in corner or safejump oki). Or you can continue if close enough to corner as usual with something like 2B > j.C > j.214A > CS for damage. Putting a dash before 2A helps corner carry too. If you do this kinda thing you wanna input the 2B/5B asap after inputting 2A so they don't come out if the opponent techs. And of course you can still meaty with stuff after the 2A whiffs through their tech.

6. Pretty sure 2C(BDC) is slightly disadvantage, but it's pretty safe to use from a long range 2C, especially if you're fighting a character you out-range easily. In corner you can do silly frame traps like 2C(BDC) > 5C, they can 5A that though if they know how big the gap actually is. It's definitely bad to do at close range.

[sanada321]

How does Yu get in on his opponent and what are his footsie tools ? i know i have to use zio for getting in but when i acctually try to get in on the opponent i have a bad habit of using evasive action too much also i would like to know what to do against spammers and button mashers

[Fistmaster049]

How does Yu get in on his opponent and what are his footsie tools ? i know i have to use zio for getting in but when i acctually try to get in on the opponent i have a bad habit of using evasive action too much also i would like to know what to do against spammers and button mashers

I'll give it shot

1. 5B: Arguably his best non-persona poke, great wide hitbox however can get low profiled by some moves (e.g. Chie 2A, Yukiko 2A and some sweeps) basically don't use it in their face that much outside of combos

2. 2B: Another great normal, pretty good anti air, can't be low profiled, cancels into most of Yu's moveset, first hit is also air unblockable, just try not to miss

3. j.B: If you going to air dash in this is probably what you want to use, it hits twice, can be converted quite easily into the sweep and has some use in combos

4. 2C: His best Persona poke, big range, can be converted into good damage in the corner, has a dash cancel however I'd only really use this in blockstrings where you think you might catch your opponent out, I wouldn't just throw this out

Side note: While it may be a hadoken style fireball, Zio isn't actually that good in most matchups, especially when Izanagi stays out for years, very easy to punished for just throwing it out

[sanada321]

well i only have one Yu combo of my own but it kinda requires his slide (its the same with the auto combo) but what if i dont have meter for a super cancel? what can Yu do after a slide? can he combo or does he have to go for a mixup ?

[Strife]

well i only have one Yu combo of my own but it kinda requires his slide (its the same with the auto combo) but what if i dont have meter for a super cancel? what can Yu do after a slide? can he combo or does he have to go for a mixup ?

Midscreen without meter or Burst, I don't think he can do anything. On corner though, after the C version you can follow with 5A > stuff.

With Burst or 50 SP, you can either combo with One More Burst or One More Cancel after D Swift Strike. I suggest looking on his challenges and practicing those later.

[Kikuichimonji]

well i only have one Yu combo of my own but it kinda requires his slide (its the same with the auto combo) but what if i dont have meter for a super cancel? what can Yu do after a slide? can he combo or does he have to go for a mixup ?

Super cancel generally doesn't do as much as a 214d One More Cancel 214b combo. 5b 5c xx 214d OMC 214b dash 2b j.c. xx j.214b 5b j.c xx j.214a aaa is a BnB.

Yu is the wrong character to play if you don't like taking low damage knockdowns into wake-up pressure. Once he gets you to the corner, he has some better meterless options, but until then you just end combos into sweep -> 5d. Unless you're playing against Teddie, don't end combos in slide. 5d wake-ups are ridiculous. Just do something like 2a 5b 2b sweep 5d.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Kikuichimonji

[sanada321]

Hey i have been practicing Yu's combos, his footsies (5D and 2D) and his block string (5D into 5C) and getting in on the opponent (using sword dive and air forward dash) however i wanna learn more. as a Yu beginner what else should i be striving towards? should i be getting huge combos instead of my only combo and using auto combo? or should i look for more resets? e.g. heavy persona attack and get behind them with evasive action. what else should i do as a Yu beginner?

[grove03]

Hey i have been practicing Yu's combos, his footsies (5D and 2D) and his block string (5D into 5C) and getting in on the opponent (using sword dive and air forward dash) however i wanna learn more. as a Yu beginner what else should i be striving towards? should i be getting huge combos instead of my only combo and using auto combo? or should i look for more resets? e.g. heavy persona attack and get behind them with evasive action. what else should i do as a Yu beginner?

umm 5D and 2D?? i think you meant 5B and 2B.

-Anyways, the central thing about Yu is having good neutral with him, as well as being able to keep the opponent in the vortex (his 2A+B>5D). Using his Sword dive to get in on people is super risky, i suggest just sticking to airdash j.bs. If airdashing doesnt work at times, then its ok to let the opponent to approach you because Yu does have 2b to Anti-air most characters.

-Huge combos aren't really needed, except for when you can kill the opponent or manage to land/punish with 5C, because that can lead to 6k+ damage. In general, starting with most other normals will only probably net you about 3k-5k? damage, which will allow the opponent to air tech and leave.

-As a beginner, work on neutral and keeping the opponent in the 5D oki. You really need only about 3 different mixups to take rounds/matches with Yu, in time you can then upgrade your mixups to make it harder to block, learn throw bait setups, burst safe combos/mixups, etc. Damage can come later once you feel confident in the neutral game.

[MetsuGadoken]

Hi I just started playing persona not too long ago and was wondering, is a combo into sweep the only way to start yu's oki pressure, or are there more options? For example, now if I do 5B 5C I usually confirm into 214 D because it's the most damage, but it doesn't really lead to any follow ups unless I have meter for OMC.

Also on the topic of oki, what would you say as the most basic mixups I should learn at first?

Edited August 1, 2013 by MetsuGadoken

[grove03]

Hi I just started playing persona not too long ago and was wondering, is a combo into sweep the only way to start yu's oki pressure, or are there more options? For example, now if I do 5B 5C I usually confirm into 214 D because it's the most damage, but it doesn't really lead to any follow ups unless I have meter for OMC.

Also on the topic of oki, what would you say as the most basic mixups I should learn at first?

-Combo into sweep is the most basic way to start Yu's oki pressure. However, there are other ways such as landing 2B CH as an Anti-air or meeting them air to air and landing a CH and following up with sweep as the opponent descends. Landing his 2C and B-lion (214B) can also give you a free sweep, depending if its the first hit or the proration of a combo is low enough.

-If you can't end your combo into sweep because you used 5C, then you can always followup with C-swift strike and get yourself either to continue the combo if you're close to the corner or get a safe-jump.

-Basic Oki every Yu player should be able to do are: 1) sweep>5D>(jump forward)j.b>(land)roll>5DD (cross up)>etc. 2) sweep>5D> empty jump 2A>etc. The next may be a little difficult to land, but you'll still get a cross up with the 5DD. 3)sweep>5D>(jump forward) j.b> (JC forward) j.a>5DD>etc. the [j.b>JC forward j.a] is the fuzzy guard mixup, with which if they block j.b and then attempt to block crouching, the opponents animation will remain standing and get hit with j.a. These are just a few, Yu has alot of options to choose from for his oki.

If you want to see more, i suggest looking at VRraiden's oki vid at :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1a8-E-MIIc

Many different ways to open up the opponent, although they may look similar.

[sanada321]

alright my brain is starting to hurt, i dont know any of this termanology, how am i supposed to remember what 5C and 2A and 5DD means? this looks like math to me :P. is there anyway to remember all this plus i dont understand what this oki is. the most im understand is sweep and cross up and thats it

[shtkn]

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Notation

search for the terms you are confused about in there

[MetsuGadoken]

-Combo into sweep is the most basic way to start Yu's oki pressure. However, there are other ways such as landing 2B CH as an Anti-air or meeting them air to air and landing a CH and following up with sweep as the opponent descends. Landing his 2C and B-lion (214B) can also give you a free sweep, depending if its the first hit or the proration of a combo is low enough.

-If you can't end your combo into sweep because you used 5C, then you can always followup with C-swift strike and get yourself either to continue the combo if you're close to the corner or get a safe-jump.

-Basic Oki every Yu player should be able to do are: 1) sweep>5D>(jump forward)j.b>(land)roll>5DD (cross up)>etc. 2) sweep>5D> empty jump 2A>etc. The next may be a little difficult to land, but you'll still get a cross up with the 5DD. 3)sweep>5D>(jump forward) j.b> (JC forward) j.a>5DD>etc. the [j.b>JC forward j.a] is the fuzzy guard mixup, with which if they block j.b and then attempt to block crouching, the opponents animation will remain standing and get hit with j.a. These are just a few, Yu has alot of options to choose from for his oki.

If you want to see more, i suggest looking at VRraiden's oki vid at :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1a8-E-MIIc

Many different ways to open up the opponent, although they may look similar.

I assume CH stands for CH? Didn't know you could sweep after that

Thanks for listing the basic mixups, I actually watched part of the vr raiden vid already, and learned some basic high low mixups, just wanted to know if I was on the right track. I probably need to start learning some fuzzy guard setups after I've learned some of those cross up setups.

[Kikuichimonji]

How do you open up someone at neutral who can block A Raging Lion on reaction and tech throws on reaction?

[Tong]

How do you open up someone at neutral who can block A Raging Lion on reaction and tech throws on reaction?

Stagger 5A/2A -> Frametrap/Throw/Mixup/Stuff

[VR-Raiden]

How do you open up someone at neutral who can block A Raging Lion on reaction and tech throws on reaction?

It's kinda hard to describe. He's not Chie so you're gonna have to back off from pressure eventually if they keep defending properly.

Without meter, you're mostly gonna hit with staggered pressure or throws.

I would question whether they're truly reacting to your throws, if not you can hurt them with throw whiff punishes (214A/instant j.2A). I prefer j.2A for that since if blocked you're still +, though it gets you less damage. People with good defense won't fall for that stuff much though, theyll either use a throwbreak OS (backdash/jump/burst) or call you out on the bait and hit you with something. The OS are punishable though if you catch on to them. A somewhat safer throwbait is just backdash, and usually you can CH 5B (or 2C if they threw later) a throw whiff. Backdash also potentially avoids a DP/2B attempt. Basically you need to mix in throws to see how they respond and try to anticipate and punish their reaction. But if they really react to getting thrown and break its a problem.

Staggering pressure can hit them for thinking you're blockstring is over, whether they try to jump out, mash a normal out, backdash, etc. Of course they can do reversals in the gaps so keep that in mind. If they don't get hit by any 2A you can stagger to 2B which gives you most options on block.

Also you can use 236D to test them, if they don't react to it its a free complete reset of your pressure

With meter its easier to open them up in pressure, you have EX lion, AoA OMC, 214A OMC > airdash jA or 2A, 214C/D/EX OMC, 5C > IAD j.C crossup/double crossup OMC, etc.

And its important to DP guard cancel attempts when you can during pressure, Narukami has one of the best for doing that.

Edited August 3, 2013 by VR-Raiden