grove03

air orbiter sucks! that is all.

hmm although its an ok thread, i may or may not overhaul and make a new thread, while leaving this one available, going more in-depth with his pressure. all depending whether i have time or not.

The archives should still be up for viewing if that helps http://www.twitch.tv/emp_thirdworldcold/profile/past_broadcasts

here's frame data to go along with this thread http://pastebin.com/zzU5HG7X edit: also linking the pastebin to the first post

swapped out the last changelist to Xie's translation

edited the first post to have the translation changes for p4au 2.0 and collapsed PKgaming's original post

Yosuke is just one of those chars where you're going to have to deal with it. Even in P4U1, Narukami was unable to get sweep 5D on teddie and had to manage, along with safejumping a few of the cast. There's a reason why Yosuke is considered a very strong character in this game. it's not that bad either, think of the risk/reward when he chooses to DP a safejump. If he's correct he deals small damage and you're back in neutral (which is his strong point). If he's wrong, well he can potentially die on that guess since Yosuke doesn't have the health for it. (Also there may be an answer to it?? but i highly doubt it'll work or that it'll be a good use) Also, Thanks SG for answering some questions while I was away.

EX teleport, he can block, or maybe potentially bait our 2B. so becareful on reacting to SB teleport. Also in case you guys aren't aware, if you IB the first hit of his sweep, you can easily DP him, but you won't get the CH.

Probably this weekend (maybe sunday?) I'm going to make a sweep through this thread on what you guys posted. Some combos are irrelevant as there are better combos with the same amount of effort put in (if not easier). I appreciate the input, but some of it is already on the first post, with either a combo with more damage or slightly less with minimal execution. Remember guys, it's not all about the combos, if you can't hit them, you won't be able to put them to use.

good stuff impulse, its a really good punish for when he doesn't have the meter to cancel his dp into super. but to ensure you don't deal with his shenanigans, you can superjump backdash air D-zio for the same affects, cause he'll land on a FC punish, (but rereading your post you can probably release your D-zio Other to punish Ken DP would be to : backdash twice 5C air confirm punishes backdash twice C-CS, where CS will crossup s.jump backdash D-CS, few issues would be timing your CS, if Ken is mashing his Super, it has a chance to clash with CS Other issues, to deal with koromaru you need to hit him, good buttons to hit him with are 2A, 5A, and Sweep I think it is also possible to hit the dog and OMB after, so that you can possibly get an OMB starter on ken as he tries to rush in to protect his dog. some of ken's blockstrings have small gaps, such as his spear 236A/B 236C?(his persona followup that looks like an overhead) you have a chance to ziodyne thru this, IB-ing can help, but as a response Ken may opt to not do the persona-followup, and he'll be forced to use koromaru for his pressure.

Guess I'll start something off for these MU topics Here are a few things to help you out if you're having trouble dealing with Adachi's DP on his wakeup, here's a quick solution to that problem (there may be better but this does the job) on his wakup you can OS his DP very similar to BBCP's Jin 623 C DP. The input is meaty 4A~4 (other chars may also use this OS) This does the following options: on block you'll chain into 5B, on whiff, 5B won't come out and you'll block Adachi's DP. beware if the opponent has meter he can still use meter to make punishing tricky. Very useful for attempting to meaty or for quick punishes as some Adachis aren't afraid to choose to mash dp instead of block. Few problems would be that it does not stop his wakeup supers, but at least he's forced to use resources as a reversal instead of just his DP And When he does perform supers outside of combos (such as his SB atom smasher) you can punish most (if not all?) his supers with D-ziodyne, D CS could also do the trick, can't test it since i don't have the DLC chars. j.A is a pretty good tool for this MU, as he can contest his j.C approaches. 2B will rarely beat j.C, it will only do so under certain timings from both players. If you want, you can also choose to DP his j.C, but there are a few issues with this. First, the issue is will he j.C or block your DP situation will occur, (wouldve been better if our first hit of DP was still AUB) and the other issue is that there are times where the DP and Adachi j.C will clash. For when he enters his persona buffs and he attempts to get you in his Heat Riser > Ziodyne unblockable, where you will be paralyzed and silenced, if you have the meter, you can SB Issen this option for a free punish. Not sure if A and/or B Issen will catch/reach in time. Air C Zio is a pretty good tool in this matchup as it will help you control the air so that he can't freely j.C his way in. it will also help in destroying his persona when he attempts to move his persona towards you. When you block his 2C??(cross slash Izanagi ender) you can break his persona by hitting it with 5A and jump-canceling, but beware there are situations where if the opponent is aware of this, he can use his gunshot to punish you for it.

BREAKING NEWS! So remember how i said Zio Canceling is a shadow narukami thing so that he can continue his combos/blockstring?? Welp, I was wrong, Regular Yu can do it too!!! but to a lesser extent. It makes perfect sense, and it explains how JP managed to combo FC 214AB 5C j.C 5C j.C 5C j.C etc, well, thats because they don't mention ANOTHER annotation yet again! after each j.C, they are inputting j.236D, again! so the combo would be like 5C j.C ZC 5C j.C ZC etc And just like in the shadow form, Regular Yu can use ZC right after j.C to reduce j.C recovery frames, it actually works on block too!! So ya, have a blast with this guys! THANK YOU BASED GOD J.236D!!

Ok i'll try to cover as much as i can about Regular and Shadow versions First off, yes he still technically has corner 5D oki, but because of how the move has way more recovery frames than before, it may not be even worth going for it as most of the cast can punish it. If you still wish to go for it the setup is this: CH DP> 5D Corner: stuff> 2C backdash 5D is still in, but has the same issues stuff> 2C 214B delay 4D , in which you walk back a bit and then 5D I'm still looking into uses for 2D oki and possibly 236[D] oki, but that think shadow yu might benefit more from 236[D], still need to lab stuff anyways with those 2 setups they are only real oki setups if the opponent does not have a fast enough reversal to punish narukami. These circumstances will occur if the opponent naturally has a reversal DP to hit narukami out or metered variations. for ex: attempting 214B 5D setup against another narukami will be punished by either DP or C/CD CS, against chie, she can easily DP it, against kanji he can either Super command grab you out of it or use Chair super to punish you. Theres a lot more but you get the point. unless you know that the opponent is unable to punish you because they require meter to do so, i recommend just going for safejump via jump j.b or 214 feint. so ya, RIP 5D and with the CH DP 5D setup, it has the same issues, except i believe its possible to also roll through the setup. AND of course people can just delay tech 5D, so when given an option to 5D or safejump, you should always go for safejump. however it appears to be an ok tool to use in neutral to make sure the opponent doesnt sleep on you. Some people used to do this in p4u1, which was very ineffective, but with the faster startup time it's an ok option to go to. NEXT TOPIC SHADOW MODE!! So recently people have found out about j.236D during shadow berserk mode, we're going to be calling this new term Zio Cancel (ZC), which basically reduces the recovery of raging lions to 0F!! From now on combo notations that use Zio Cancel as part of the combo should be annotated with ZC as such ex: 214AB ZC 2AB 236C 236CD 214AB ZC 2AB etc is an example. So with Zio cancel this explains a lot of JP shadow narukami combo videos as to how they're able to do the combo so fast. HOWEVER! this is not only used just for combos, you need to be able to utilize ZC as part of your blockstring and enders as well. As you enter Shadow Berserk mode, your goal is to open up the opponent, which can be tough if they opt to mash you with either DP or Roll. but with ZC you can potentially make any hit that they block, go into shadow berserk mode, and go full offense w/o the opponent being able to mash out because Shadow Yu DOES have blockstrings that are unmashable and will take the opponent to guard bonus state, and even then there are some routes that can not be mashed out of. So although it is nice to have a good list of combos to perform while in shadow berserk mode, I feel that this char mostly relies on gimmicks and/or resets. I've already found a good number of resets as Shadow Yu, with which i'll be updating in the combo thread and organizing them via combo routes, reset routes, and oki routes. If you can master ZC and relie on using his full potential in shadow berserk, the opponent will have a hard time blocking your offense. But beware this character is A LOT more work then Regular Yu. He's only scary once he reaches 100m and even then if you can't lockdown your opponent you are going to have a hard time with this char. Going back and forth between the two, It's very noticeable that Regular Yu is the better character with the noticeable damage increase from shadow to regular. This was just a quick run-down on the info as i haven't really updated it in a while, but there's even more things to discuss. Hopefully I can also begin to discuss some tech that you can use to fight certain Match Up's.

Shadow Yu is going to have a bunch of combos since it's pretty much free-style, so i'll try my best for finding optimal routes/starters/confirms. Also, from now on for shadow narukami notations, if the combo utilizes the j.236D zio cancel in the combo, please begin to use the annotation ZC, alot easier to type out for all and to read as well. I'll update the explanation of ZC in the gameplay thread under shadow yu's own section.

Thanks for the upload! i don't think its common knowledge yet, but this is vital for higher level play. you NEED to be able to execute it consistently in order to be effective with Shadow Narukami. Also i posted the link in the first comment in the vid thread, too.

updated, added in cornered 5C omb 150% and omb 50% punish combos, cornered combos starting with FC 5AAA combos, included safejumps, and optimized a few combos. Next on the agenda are the following: going to continue adding in combos with specific resources as well as position and multiple starters with and without awakening add in corner maxe damage that leads into oki utilizing more safejumps, 5D, 2D, and 236[D], add in combos utilizing 2A+C (hop cancel combos) lab up FC combos with non-FC moves (similar to FC 5AAA, nice find btw) look into guard cancel omb setups include burst safe setups and combos dig through optimal shadow rampage combos so ya i hope to get this done by next week maybe? not sure cause school is starting up again so if you guys wanna help out feel free to post your findings

you might be able to do more damage if you end with air ziodyne, but seeing as how you can easily get punished off a highly prorated combo that ends in air ziodyne its a good combo but little tough to execute, i'm assuming this is off CH 5C and 5D(1)? if so, then theres another combo that doesnt require you to time 5D nor tk 214a while getting 1 point of damage higher lol with the B issen ender, so if you're comfortable going for that combo, then go for it. but here's an easier, slightly harder to drop 5C 235A 214D OMB 214B 5B 5C IAD j.A j.C j.214A 5A 5C 2C 214B DP(1) 236236B, non-CH: 6,226, CH: 6316 note: non-CH is easier to drop 5A 5C 2C portion as either 5A may hit too high, resulting in izanagi to 2C the opponent behind you or whiff, or 5A may whiff as you try to hit the opponent at a low height to avoid any problems with 2C. edit: apparently you could do B-issen ender in your combo to get more damage. good stuff.

ok if its midscreen, i cant connect 2b(1) 5c 214AB series, unless you need to microdash EACH 2b(1), but if i get to the corner, and CS so that they get the corner, you only get about 8.4k for the first one and 8.9k with the 2nd combo if you use the same combo, however, if i land omb C CS to cross up, and using the same loop and finishing with 5C 2C 214b DP CS gets 9.4k, but it requires you to be close enough to the corner, but not reach the corner so that CS can cross up and getting cross up cross slash to connect consistently is kinda tough . theres other combos using the same resources that does 200 less along with lower execution.

i'll be sure to put in some combos i found using 5C to punish using up all our resources for high damage. unfortunately i'll be away so be patient!

Discuss the matchup here

Discuss the JYB matchup here

Discuss the matchup here

Discuss the matchup here

Discuss the matchup here

discuss the matchup here