[CP] Tsubaki Changes and Discussion

[Airk]

It was on spinoza's twitter, but I figured it might be csex cause it had been a few days since the loketest. OTOH I didn't even really know it could combo midscreen off throw.

Me either, though we probably should've guessed, since it has hilariously fast startup (5+0) and moves her forward a good bit.

[WillWork4Instal]

I have a quick question regarding the loketests. Was Tsubaki's command throw shown in any of the videos? I looked through all the videos and didn't manage to see it. Since it's a new move, maybe I didn't pick it out. Also, if anyone knows and there is no footage, what does the new command throw look like? Thanks.

[pktazn]

I don't believe they're in the videos but looking through what was posted in the first loketest list, this was the only description I could find:

"Seems like the command throw is a series of Tsubaki slicing them up with the 6C blades."

Every thing else about it was about what it did.

[WillWork4Instal]

Does (from what we gathered) the new "wall splat" mechanic really hurt our combos? Can you still 6C on a wall splat?

Should, if given the chance, OD instead of RC? On the topic of OD, does our new Distortion only work in Overdrive?

Also, when you said there was stagger in the D proj.>236D, does that mean that we should do that instead of just 236D? I thought 236D had some stagger properties of its own.

Finally, do we think that 2A jc that useful? Considering we lost 5C, that's a lousy tradeoff.

[pktazn]

You do not have to be in OD to be able to use our new distortion from what I've seen.

The others are really specific gameplay questions that only be answered once the final build is out and people have a chance to play. I'm not sure what you mean by "wall splat" though. How it would affect our combos depends on which moves cause it and whether it's done normally, on CH or FC among other things.

Edited October 23, 2012 by pktazn

[pktazn]

Just saw in the BBCP general discussion/hype thread that there is a loketest going on right now though it was unannounced. Since this is closer to when they're thinking of releasing the game, it's not too far off to think that this might be close to the final build.

Regardless, please continue to take any new info with a grain of salt as they may (and probably will if they're holding this loketest) make last minute changes before releasing the final build in arcades. With that said, let's hope we get some people to play Tsubaki and get more info and footage~! :D

[Errol]

I'll scour the jp web for information when I get home from work.

[Errol]

Not much

JCCD翼2B拾いから低ダコンできた

jCC > j.214D > 2B> air dash combo worked. (damn, what do we call this again, I can't remember OUR term for it.. or we just write the notation?)

Actually, that's all.

[pktazn]

You mean the IAD combo? If so that's good to know.

And I'm not too surprised that there isn't much info since this was an unannounced loketest but thanks for looking and translating info again :D

[Errol]

IAD, yeah. lol...

[Kiba]

I wasn't surprised about the small info until I saw the Hakumen essay in the CP thread.

Thanks for that Errol.

[Errol]

There could be more before I go to sleep. I'll check.

Think the goal of this test is infrastructure rather than balancing or getting opinions, so what comes out is probably close to what we'll see.

Nothing, but I'll have my eye out for anything.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Errol

[pktazn]

I wasn't surprised about the small info until I saw the Hakumen essay in the CP thread.

Thanks for that Errol.

I saw that too lol. Well, as the word spreads, hopefully more will try out Tsu. She's not that popular (in comparison) sadly. I think Spinoza was tweeting some stuff about Tsubaki though.

[Errol]

I see, there's also some stuff on jpbbs. like 22D full charge during mugen guard crushes normal block. More later..

[Surf]

Ghetto unblockable 22D, I'm ok with this

[Airk]

Ghetto unblockable 22D, I'm ok with this

but...only during mugen? That's kinda weak. =/ I'm gonna miss my unblockables.

Well, waiting for more infoz.

[Surf]

Emphasis on ghetto, its better than nothing though.

Crush trigger is the superior option anyways, you don't waste charge and you save 25 meter. Iirc, her CT is about as fast as one of her 22x moves correct. That's pretty darn fast

Edited November 8, 2012 by Surf

[Errol]

ロケテ行ってきた

・カラーは赤青黄緑とデフォカラーにピンク交じりっぽいのがあった。

Colors: red, blue, yellow, green, default but with pink mixed in

・6A5CCD剣2CCから低ダコン入った。ダメは3000いかないぐらい。

6A> 5CC > 214D> 2CC > IAD Combo. Damage didn't quite reach 3k.

・C槍同技

623C has same move proration

・衣中相手ノーマルガードでD風最大溜めがガークラ

During mugen, max charge 22d guard crushes if normally guarded.

Spinoza twitter

C槍A翼スカの後、5Bと5C繋がるよ！

623C> j.214A (whiff) > 5B and 5C connect!

あっ、忘れてた。A光使った後は弾が消えるまでA光使用不可（当たり前といえば当たり前ですが）。また、弾打った後は着地まで行動不可。D光は確認してないです。ちなみにEXはどちらも可能。

After j.236A, until the ball disappears, you cannot use j.236A again. You also cannot move after launching the ball until landing. Did not confirm on D version. In EX, either worked.

そういえば、ついにこいつはCG0だと切り返しのないキャラになったのでCG1確保することの重要性が増したと思います。

The importance of getting a charge has grown as she has no reversals without a charge.

槍スカはその場5B>エリアルが可能ですね（5Cも繋がりますけどjc不可なので）。IG回転率はとりあえずコンボ中に回収しながらっていうのは厳しいですね。立ち回りで灯を置いたりしながら溜める、コマ投げを決める、ODを使うなどで稼いでコンボで吐く感じですね

DP whiff followup is 5b> aerial. 5C Connects, but cannot be jump canceled. Charge recovery seems hard to do during combos now. Feels like, you get charges back in neutral, while the new projectile is occupying space, by landing a command throw, or using OD, and then you use them during combos.

翼はJDキャンセル不可になってその他も軒並みDボタン押せる猶予が無くなったので、回収コンは何か新発見がない限りは不可能かと思います。D灯自体は起き攻めに使えるほど優秀ですね。ただ、相手ダウンからD灯置いてガードさせたところにD閃で破裂するネタはありそう

j.214X can't be charge canceled anymore, and other D moves don't have room for charging. Unless there are new discoveries, charging in combos will be impossible. D projectile is useful in okizeme to the degree that you can use it. Appears that if you do it on wakeup, and 236D into it being guarded, there's a special effect.

編集してたら間違えてました。灯自体は強くないけどですねw灯の追加で立ち回り考えること増えたのと鎖の追加で攻めの選択肢も増えたので、今の所は使っていて新鮮です。デメリットはBC光削除で空中でやれることが減ったことかな。今からでも遅くないっすよ、アークさん！

Noticed a mistake as I was compiling/editing.. The Projectile itself isn't strong. But The addition of it gives more to think about in neutral, and offensive options have increased due to the command throw. It feels fresh to use her right now. The downside is that the loss of j.236B/C gives us less to do in the air.

あと現状開幕OD発動したら効果時間終了時に溜まるIGは2.5でした。

OD at start of round gives 2.5 charges.

5CC>D風>AB>6CC>3段で3800くらい

Corner> 5CC> 22D> Crush trigger > 6CC > Special Ender > 3800 dmg

About 3000 damage without the crush trigger.

With 2 charges, can do about 3800 even mid screen with a throw, thanks to crush trigger...

6or4投げ>D剣>D風最大溜め>ダッシュAB>6C>3段 これで3800。アホか。

Throw> 214D> 22D (max charge) > dash AB (crush trigger)> 6C> ender, is about 3800. crazy.

そこですよね。ODとコマ投げは確かに増えるけど、それ以外、というか通常Dボタンだと貯金し辛い感じは自分も感じました。

Certainly get charges during OD or from landing the throw, but outside of that, it definitely does feel hard to acquire charges.

あとは3Cfc時の追加Cが高く浮くようになったので、3Cfc時に限り3CC後に5Cで拾えます

3CC after a 3C(FC) floats higher, such that you can pick up with 5c. Only on fatal counter.

[Kiba]

I see, there's also some stuff on jpbbs. like 22D full charge during mugen guard crushes normal block. More later..

She's sounding better.

For one Mugen now sounds like it has its usefulness outside of combos. There seems to be a bigger emphasis on setups, for example, D Projectile > 236D releases an aura, and you can use that blockstun (or stagger) to go for a followup full charge 22D to guard crush.

You could go for a CT at the cost of using 25% heat and less range, or use mugen setups by using 50%. Either way Mugen sounds more useful.

Thanks dawg.

Edit: Oh shit you ninja'd me with more info!

I thought 623C was a viable reversal for her to use, but seeing that she has none w/o charge seems rough.

She gets a full IAD combo from a 6A?!

Edited November 8, 2012 by Kiba

[Errol]

TBH It didn't sound like Spinoza really tested 623C, and previous reports were that it did have invulnerability, so I'm not sure it doesn't.

She sounds fun, and good to me.

[Kiba]

Yea that's what I figured, but I mean at least she would still have a reversal, unlike some others. I'm really looking forward to her gameplay now.

PK dw about updating the front page.

[pktazn]

I went out to dinner and see that we have new info AND I don't have to update the front page? You guys are da besss~

An IAD combo from 6A sounds absolutely divine. I'm pretty excited to see how she'll be once it's officially out especially since it's sounding like her offensive options have increased for the better. I hope someone will be willing to play her and be recorded lol.

Edited November 9, 2012 by pktazn

[Urichinan]

My interest in Tsubaki has been renewed with this info.

[BatousaiJ]

Haven't been here in ages!

Guard crush is actually better than unblockable knockback since you'd need be in proper positioning/use meter or charge to do more damage.

Guard crush will allow for us to use our best starter for maximum proration(think 6CC starter from csex).

Interesting changes and some of them sound fantastic. The lack of a reversal without charge is alarming but the idea of keeping a stock of charge in tow to represent the reversal will likely be a common play if that sticks to final version.

Regardless it seems likely that we'll be saying good bye to some of our old tools and saying hello to a bunch of exciting new ones. It's gonna be great~

[skd]

she still has clothes on? fuck this game