[CP] Tsubaki Changes and Discussion

[Kiba]

Thank you PK, Errol.

So, is Tsubaki actually better now? Or worse because she lost her unblockables?

She seems better but it's difficult to go purely by speculation. The unblockable doesn't sound like a huge loss, but it definately sounds like her mixup is good with the added command grab.

Gotta wait to actually see stuff.

[Errol]

During AH, her wings are red, and her lines are different.

[Airk]

She seems better but it's difficult to go purely by speculation. The unblockable doesn't sound like a huge loss, but it definately sounds like her mixup is good with the added command grab.

Probably better than Extend, just as a result of having damage without Mugen, maybe not better than CS2. I'm still not convinced that the unblockable isn't a very serious loss, because her command grab sounds more like a utility option than serious mixup, unless they've changed the ability to follow up and get real damage off it.

But yes, pure speculation right now since it doesn't seem like anyone who really KNOWS Tsubaki is playing at these loktests?

[pktazn]

Honestly, no one really seems to know how to play whatever character they choose but that's just the nature of loketests haha. Everyone is kinda fumbling just trying to find changes, hopefully, so they can answer the questionnaire ArcSys gives so they know what the players are thinking.

I know Spinoza went to the first loketest and I think he may have gone to the second one but didn't tweet as much about it if he did.

[Airk]

Honestly, no one really seems to know how to play whatever character they choose but that's just the nature of loketests haha. Everyone is kinda fumbling just trying to find changes, hopefully, so they can answer the questionnaire ArcSys gives so they know what the players are thinking.

I know Spinoza went to the first loketest and I think he may have gone to the second one but didn't tweet as much about it if he did.

Heh. Yeah. Watching some of the videos, it's like "are people playing both of these characters? Or is one guy just playing one, then switching sides and messing around with the other?"

Wish Spinoza had been more public with his thoughts. Hopefully that questionnaire gave them plenty of room to get their point across.

[redsilversnake]

Watching some of the videos, it's like "are people playing both of these characters? Or is one guy just playing one, then switching sides and messing around with the other?"

Apparently, that's how it is with loketests; one player will do stuff with their character for a bit, the other will do the same with theirs, they'll each throw a round, and then the third will be them actually playing.

At least, that's how it went with the recent GG and UNiB ones, and the video from this new BB one I saw this morning.

[Airk]

Apparently, that's how it is with loketests; one player will do stuff with their character for a bit, the other will do the same with theirs, they'll each throw a round, and then the third will be them actually playing.

At least, that's how it went with the recent GG and UNiB ones, and the video from this new BB one I saw this morning.

I can see why they would do this, if their primary objective at the loktest is to figure out what changes have been made. Which is probably what they want to do as part of the community.

The developers need to realize that that is NOT, however, what THEY need from the loktest. The developers need feedback based on people PLAYING with the changes, not a bunch of guys screwing around trying to figure out if move X is still plus on block. And this would be super easy. All they need to do is PUBLISH a list of changes... and all of a sudden, it becomes the community's best interest to PLAY with those changes, since they don't need to waste the entire week trying to figure out what they are.

And we wonder why the balance decisions in these games come out so screwy. It's because people aren't testing what the developers need them to test because the developers refuse to tell the testers what they want to know. -_-

[GEKKA]

I can see why they would do this, if their primary objective at the loktest is to figure out what changes have been made. Which is probably what they want to do as part of the community.

The developers need to realize that that is NOT, however, what THEY need from the loktest. The developers need feedback based on people PLAYING with the changes, not a bunch of guys screwing around trying to figure out if move X is still plus on block. And this would be super easy. All they need to do is PUBLISH a list of changes... and all of a sudden, it becomes the community's best interest to PLAY with those changes, since they don't need to waste the entire week trying to figure out what they are.

And we wonder why the balance decisions in these games come out so screwy. It's because people aren't testing what the developers need them to test because the developers refuse to tell the testers what they want to know. -_-

I was actually thinking exactly this earlier today. Things would be so much smoother if it were this way.

[Errol]

I doubt that they balance the games by looking at people playing at location tests... It makes no sense even if you told all of the changes beforehand.

[Airk]

I doubt that they balance the games by looking at people playing at location tests... It makes no sense even if you told all of the changes beforehand.

So what do you believe the purpose of loketests is then? It's certainly doesn't make much sense that they'd be some sort of "preview" so that the community can get a headstart on trying to figure out what the developers have changed. And even if it's not "balance" specifically (and to be truthful, signs point to loketests being at least -part- of the balancing process) certainly feedback from people actually playing the game is more useful than feedback from people trying to figure out frame data and move properties.

[Errol]

Well, frankly, I think hype could be a good part of it...

[Errol]

236D is slightly negative on block. 214D is even.

5BB>5CC>ABB does 1800

CT (grounded, normal hit) > 5BB>5CC>ABB 2350. at 5b, it was about 650, so CT itself does damage and appears to cause proration

Fully charged CT removed about 6/10 of barrier gauge (vs. platinum)

Can't move in air after j.236D, but immediately after landing - feels like no or little landing recovery.

5CC > OD > mini dash > 5C connects

Mid screen to corner, 5CC > mugen > 623D..D..D > 6CC > JC >jc >JCC >214C does 4200

Not being able to knock down with 22b away from the corner is really rough.

IAD JBB > charge cancel > JA usable like Platinum's swallow moon? Probably strong

[lxMetalSonicxl]

IAD JBB > charge cancel > JA usable like Platinum's swallow moon? Probably strong

Dear god. Don't make me play her again please.

[Errol]

for those curious about the Relius AH on Tsubaki, an artist's rendition...

pic.twitter.com/UhLRCU4g

[.:TM:.]

Thanks for that, they wern't kidding when they called it erotic lol.

[pktazn]

Thanks for finding that tweet Errol~

Famitsu article on Tsubaki: http://www.famitsu.com/news/201208/30020257.html

I only noticed one thing in all those screenshots for Tsubaki:

- Don't think the j.214x series launched them up that much before. It also looks like it was after going through the orb?

And that's all I got haha. I would say something about 6C but they're screenshots and not moving and aldskfjalsdkfjasldf. It's kinda sad because Arakune's and Taokaka's (Torakaka assist!) screenshots have something different right above hers lol.

For the article itself, it looks like a basic idea of her story and what her Install is in CP. I'm just quickly glancing since I have a chem lab to go to.

EDIT:

Painfully copy pasting from my phone. Shoryuken made an article on it but from what my phone screen is showing me, it doesn't look like they translated the stuff that was in green in the Famitsu article. Maybe it was redundant.

http://shoryuken.com/2012/08/29/blazblue-chrono-phantasma-tsubaki-fallen-into-the-imperators-hand-introduced/

"Tsubaki uses the Sealed Weapon Izayoi as her weapon, passed down through the generations of the Yayoi Family. In exchange for granting the wielder tremendous power, the weapon “steals the light (eyesight)” from the user, causing blindness. Though warned of this danger by Jin, Ragna and Hakumen, Tsubaki finally loses her vision at the end of Continuum Shift. The one who saved her was the Imperator Librarius, ruler of the Novus Orbis Librarium. In Chrono Phantasma, Tsubaki’s attire changes to black, symbolizing her fall into the hands of Imperator, who controls the world from the shadows."

Edited August 29, 2012 by pktazn

[Errol]

Yeah, that's the only interesting part to anyone who has played BB before. other stuff is like, character personality, explaining install, and saying she's a rush down character etc.

Cool stuff though.

Another note, I feel like we could go for a new subtitle for the forum for CP. Something like who turned the lights out? something double meaning with going dark and losing vision?

[pktazn]

Something to replace "lol blind"?

Hmmm... how about "asno083qjfdpasphwf0p]" or something similar.

EDIT: Honestly, I can't think of anything. "lol blind" seems to cover all those bases haha.

Whoops, to keep this thread on topic~

Charging seems slower overall looking at what was reported though it didn't look CS1 slow from the video. Do you guys think it could be because of our OD in addition to her new moves, like her command grab that gives 2 charges? They may change the charging speed next loketest of course, but I don’t think it’ll be too bad if it sticks since we also have a lot of nice new tools to work with. Though that's dependent on how we can work with those tools.

I also took another look at the Tsu vs Plat vid for fun and noticed that when the random passerby chooses to perfect time to stand in front of the camera, it looked like the Tsubaki was seeing which normals jump cancelled. If he was then it looks like 2A and 2B are now jump cancellable? It could just be my eyes playing tricks on me though.

Edited August 30, 2012 by pktazn

[Airk]

Charging seems slower overall looking at what was reported though it didn't look CS1 slow from the video. Do you guys think it could be because of our OD in addition to her new moves, like her command grab that gives 2 charges? They may change the charging speed next loketest of course, but I don’t think it’ll be too bad if it sticks since we also have a lot of nice new tools to work with. Though that's dependent on how we can work with those tools.

Yeah, it really depends on how useful the command grab is, because we certainly can't be relying on Overdrive for our 'day to day charging needs'. If the command grab is solid, then we'll be doing great, especially if we can cancel into it from blockstring stuff from non-kissing-range. If the command grab is slow, obvious, or super short ranged, this might be an issue, but until we know for sure, not much point speculating.

jump cancellable 2B sounds like fun though.

[Kiba]

Nah 2B isn't jump cancellable unfortunately. The jump afterwards was not immediate.

[Cheefoo]

Something to replace "lol blind"?

I should have been the one to fill your dark soul with LIIIIGHT!

[Errol]

Does throw > 236236D connect midscreen in csex? I am too lazy to put the disc in my ps3

Throw->236236D:CG0→1912 CG1→2072 CG2→2263 CG3→2470 CG4→2943 CG5→3671。

numbers that I wonder if they are csex.

[Airk]

Does throw > 236236D connect midscreen in csex? I am too lazy to put the disc in my ps3

Throw->236236D:CG0→1912 CG1→2072 CG2→2263 CG3→2470 CG4→2943 CG5→3671。

numbers that I wonder if they are csex.

Confirmed; Works in EX, all numbers match.

Not a completely terrible burst-proof finish, I guess. :P

[pktazn]

Is the throw > 236236D still in the loketest? Or was that just someone listing the values in Extend for comparison purposes?

Nah 2B isn't jump cancellable unfortunately. The jump afterwards was not immediate.

I had a feeling since it didn't look immediate, shucks. Oh well, it'll probably end up changing to whatever next loketest anyway haha.

[Errol]

It was on spinoza's twitter, but I figured it might be csex cause it had been a few days since the loketest. OTOH I didn't even really know it could combo midscreen off throw.