Orihalcon Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Yeah, but it's kind of hard to swallow that Tsubaki is so lovestruck that's willing to go against her friends when we don't even see her relationship with Jin (a couple of cute scenes do not make a good couple.) That didn't make a damn bit of sense. Seriously, it looks like you're trying to say five different things there.
Surf Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 As for the whole "Relius is a dick" thing, he strikes me more as a "chaotic neutral" character than just another evil character like Terumi. He just doesn't care about morals, right or wrong, and all that shit that hinders his progress as a man of science. Yea I suppose that would be the best wording that describes him
Orihalcon Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 He still is evil in the sense that his actions fall into that category, but he himself isn't. He's just doing everything for science. Though I think him being friends with Terumi might also have something to do with it.
DeadmanJV2 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 The reason she's willing to go against her friends is because she's under the effect of the "Mind Eater". This is explicitly stated. Tsubaki's story in CS proved that despite how jealous she got, she could not bring herself to kill Noel. We see Tsubaki put under the effects of the Mind Eater in Jin's CS story, they just don't say "she's under the effect of the Mind Eater" because the evil costume change, unexplained eye color change, and sudden personality change kind of give away she isn't herself. Yes, it would be nice if they showed more of Jin and Tsubaki's relationship, but it's not necessary to show why someone who is being controlled by the Phantom's magic would oppose the Imperator's enemies.
NovaFortuna Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) That didn't make a damn bit of sense. Seriously, it looks like you're trying to say five different things there. Okay, let me try to rephrase: Tsubaki went against Noel out of jelaousy because she thought Noel took her place. Okay, but Noel was her dear friend and they really loved each other. What makes Jin so important that Tsubaki is willing to kill her friend to get near him? What did Jin do to grow on her so much? There must be something, I am not denying that, but nothing really convincing has been shown. They just say a lot Tsubaki and Jin are in love, but never show it. Showing and not just telling is necessary to make convincing writting, especially on important parts of the plot. The little scenes they shared may work to hint they have something going on, but fall short to justify a love that makes the biggest jerk in the story become completely heroic for her and a girl who us shown to be rational, intelligent and level headed (until mind control kicked in) completely lose it for love. DeadmanJV2: True, she did stop right before finishing her, but she did went all the way until that. It shows how big Jin is for her. When mind control made it's effect she went to the extremist side and the color changes as you say. I think I am complaining too much, still. Sorry bout it, let's drop it here, this is about CP story after all. Edited December 11, 2012 by NovaFortuna
DeadmanJV2 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Okay, let me try to rephrase: Tsubaki went against Noel out of jelaousy because she thought Noel took her place. Okay, but Noel was her dear friend and they really loved each other. What makes Jin so important that Tsubaki is willing to kill her friend to get near him? What did Jin do to grow on her so much? Again, Tsubaki's story mode shows that she is not willing to kill Noel. She has the opportunity, but cannot bring herself to take it.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Okay, let me try to rephrase: Tsubaki went against Noel out of jelaousy because she thought Noel took her place. Okay, but Noel was her dear friend and they really loved each other. What makes Jin so important that Tsubaki is willing to kill her friend to get near him? What did Jin do to grow on her so much? There must be something, I am not denying that, but nothing really convincing has been shown. They just say a lot Tsubaki and Jin are in love, but never show it. Showing and not just telling is necessary to make convincing writting, especially on important parts of the plot. The little scenes they shared may work to hint they have something going on, but fall short to justify a love that makes the biggest jerk in the story become completely heroic for her and a girl who us shown to be rational, intelligent and level headed (until mind control kicked in) completely lose it for love. The fact that they were the only friends they had growing up might have something to do with it, you don't need to show every single detail of their relationship to know why care about each other.
Orihalcon Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Tsubaki went against Noel out of jelaousy because she thought Noel took her place. Okay, but Noel was her dear friend and they really loved each other. What makes Jin so important that Tsubaki is willing to kill her friend to get near him? What did Jin do to grow on her so much? Hazama screwed with her head and helped amplify and reinforce her jealousy and such. It's what lead to current, brainwashed Tsubaki. It's not really her own free will; this was pretty clear in Story Mode. The only reason she went after her (and Jin) before Hazama's mindfuckery was to try and save them rather than kill them. There must be something, I am not denying that, but nothing really convincing has been shown. They just say a lot Tsubaki and Jin are in love, but never show it. Showing and not just telling is necessary to make convincing writing, especially on important parts of the plot. They showed evidence and implied it ever since CT. The little scenes they shared may work to hint they have something going on, but fall short to justify a love that makes the biggest jerk in the story become completely heroic for her and a girl who us shown to be rational, intelligent and level headed (until mind control kicked in) completely lose it for love. Jin has from the start always been completely heroic and of sound mind when around Tsubaki ever since the Academy days. And really, Jin is the biggest jerk? That's just funny to type out. EDIT: The fact that they were the only friends they had growing up might have something to do with it, you don't need to show every single detail of their relationship to know why care about each other. This. This completely.
NovaFortuna Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Yeah, I guess you guys are right. I am getting way too touchy about it. Sorry for dragging it. Let's move on, don't wanna turn this into an argument over those two.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Jin has from the start always been completely heroic and of sound mind when around Tsubaki ever since the Academy days. And really, Jin is the biggest jerk? That's just funny to type out. To be fair, even by this story's standards, and the fact that Hazama & Relius are drastically worse than him, Jin wasn't exactly the nicest, or most heroic character around. He was more or less neutral before going completely face at the end of his story.
Orihalcon Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 To be fair, even by this story's standards, and the fact that Hazama & Relius are drastically worse than him, Jin wasn't exactly the nicest, or most heroic character around. He was more or less neutral before going completely face at the end of his story. Never said he wasn't a dick. Just that there's quite a few in the story who are much bigger assholes than he is.
NovaFortuna Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Hazama, Relius, perhaps Azrael. But those guys are evil in the end, more than jerks, they are just bad to the core. In that regard, Jin while an ass is still a good guy in the bottom. Or perhaps I am missing someone.
Orihalcon Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Azrael isn't necessarily evil yet. A dick who goes around beating the shit out of people, yes, but he seems neutral so far. Hakumen's also a bigger asshole than Jin, but Jin has his moments where he surpasses him.
NovaFortuna Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 I've been wondering about Az for a while. He just loves fighting that much, so long he gets a good fight with someone the rest doesn't matter to him. Is that why he's chasing Ragna? Is he the ultimate opponent around or something?
Moy_X7 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Again, Relius and Azrael are not evil for the hell of it. They have their own objectives and if people suffer because of them, then that is just inconsequential to them. They won't go outta their way to make others suffer but if it's for the benefit of their own objectives, then they won't hesitate to hurt those around them. Relius seeks knowledge, doesn't care about anything else. Azraels seeks a worthy adversary that will make him go all-out, doesn't care about anything else
Orihalcon Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) One of the reasons. He was given a mission by Sector Seven to take the Azure Grimoire from Ragna, which is why they let him go in the first place, but another reason is that he thinks Ragna will be a strong opponent. Apparently so, because canonically Ragna is the only cast member who Azrael releases a restriction on himself for, so far at least. EDIT: I wouldn't say Azrael is evil. Relius, though not evil inherently, is working of his own free will with the main evil group and doing actions that are evil by all standards. Azrael, as far as we know, is strictly neutral and will hurt both evil and good characters, so he can be classified as neither. Edited December 11, 2012 by Orihalcon
NovaFortuna Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 One of the reasons. He was given a mission by Sector Seven to take the Azure Grimoire from Ragna, which is why they let him go in the first place, but another reason is that he thinks Ragna will be a strong opponent. Apparently so, because canonically Ragna is the only cast member who Azrael releases a restriction on himself for, so far at least. Did Kokonoe have to do with his release or were some other members? While probably only Ragna has made him get serious lately, I can't see him beating Rachel without removing the Enchant Dragunov (that' the seals name, right?)
Orihalcon Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 It was the other members; Kokonoe had nothing to do with it. It seems the other members and Kokonoe don't exactly see eye to eye, hence why they released Azrael to do their dirty work. Kokonoe has Tager; the other members have Azrael. And yeah, the seal is Enchant Dragunov. And we don't know all of the details of his fight with Rachel (read: we know none of them), but there is a chance she took off or fled, which would technically be a win for Azrael.
SolxBaiken Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Another division of Sector 7 authorizes his release, both Kokonoe and Azrael refer to them as "old men" so probably some senior members of conservative, stuck in the past thinking scientists.
Moy_X7 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Azrael, as far as we know, is strictly neutral and will hurt both evil and good characters, so he can be classified as neither. Does Azrael fight any of the "evil" guys in his Arcade mode? Off the top of my head, I remember him fighting Ragna, Jin, Hakumen, Tager, and Valkenhayn. Hopefully he wrecks Hazama's or Relius' shit in his console story mode. @Nova - He was imprisoned by Sector Seven. Sector Seven wants Ragna's Azure. Azrael has the power to bring Ragna down so S7 released him to obtain the Azure. Not Kokonoe though, she doesn't give a shit about Ragna's Azure.
NovaFortuna Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) Well, that's also a possible outcome of that fight. Az stomping the living hell of the evil duo would be cathartic. And since Hazma is no chump he would probably be excited about fighting him Edited December 11, 2012 by NovaFortuna
Orihalcon Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Does Azrael fight any of the "evil" guys in his Arcade mode? Off the top of my head, I remember him fighting Ragna, Jin, Hakumen, Tager, and Valkenhayn. Hopefully he wrecks Hazama's or Relius' shit in his console story mode. As far as I know he doesn't, but it's been pretty much established with him that he'll fight just about anybody who he thinks is strong or who challenges him. The odds of him fighting Hazama or Relius is highly likely.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Azreal is basically pre-CS development Jin, in that he's mostly a neutral party who wants to fight Ragna.
Emma Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 beep beep, get your arcade ending pics right here http://scared01.blog123.fc2.com/blog-entry-4765.html (Amane) http://scared01.blog123.fc2.com/blog-entry-4781.html (Bullet) http://scared01.blog123.fc2.com/blog-entry-4782.html (Nu) Not the best quality, sure, but it's all we've got for now. :X Reposting here. If you look at Bullet's ending pic, it's listed as 2200/01/29. Not sure who else has seen Tager's ending, but it appeared that there was some sort of phenomena that sent him from the center of Ikaruga all the way back to the entrance, where he's telling Kokonoe he's just arrived and queue her freaking out because NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN. I'm assuming the same thing's happened to Bullet.
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