[P4A] Yu Narukami vs Elizabeth

[MashThat5A]

Discuss the Elizabeth matchup here

Mash slide

[VR-Raiden]

Block punishes vs Elizabeth:

B+D (after yellow flash)

- CH 214A

- jump CH j.B/j.2A

A+B

- (dash) CH 5C

- FC 2C

Maziodyne A

- (far) 214D/SB

- (mid screen) FC 214B

- (close) CH 214A/FC 2C

Maziodyne B

- (close) dash CH 5B

Magarudyne C/D/SB

- (dash) 5B

Note: In crouch state during recovery.

Diarahan

- FC 214B

- FC 2C

Ghastly Wail

- (during flash) jump CH j.B

Megidolaon (wait)

- FC 214B

- FC 2C

- CH 214A

- Myriad Truths

I'll edit this if something's wrong or needs to be added.

[webweaver]

Block punishes vs Elizabeth:

I'll edit this if something's wrong or needs to be added.

What does any of this mean

[Andarel]

^ If you block Move, you get a free punish with -Move. E.g. if you block Maziodyne B at close range, you can dash and punish with a counterhit 5B. If you block A+B (AoA overhead) you can dash and get a counterhit with your 5C, or throw out a counterhit 2C.

[LuminAbyss]

Found this out yesterday, but Swift Strike low profiles her 5B and lasers. You don't even need to block them, if you see it coming at neutral, tell Izanagi to guard them ankles.

It's really funny to watch.

Speaking of neutral, her 5B and j.B both nullify projectiles, so she can just react to you throwing Zio out. If you block her laser full screen, she's negative enough to give you time to cover the distance. Her 5B feels like it's a little faster than yours, and it's range is really good, so she can beat yours out with it.

In her pressure, you can hit her out of the 5D persona grab (not to mention it's easy to jump being so slow), and 2C is negative enough for you to just hit her persona after blocking it (and it's air blockable, so really, you can jump after her 5C in pressure strings and just avoid either of them and break a persona card).

On her wake-up, you can 2A or 5A and cover yourself with C+D, and if she decides to use her R Action, you tech it easy. With other options it's a little iffy, since you can't tech it if she manages to get a throw counter with it. The same thing applies if you use 5D oki, you can cover your jump in or jabs with C+D and even though her R action will go through Izanagi, you'll still be safe. Her reversal is definitely the easiest to bait.

Edited August 16, 2012 by LuminAbyss

[MashThat5A]

Found this out yesterday, but Swift Strike low profiles her 5B and lasers. You don't even need to block them, if you see it coming at neutral, tell Izanagi to guard them ankles.

It's really funny to watch.

Hence why I said in the opening post, "Mash slide" ~

[LuminAbyss]

Hence why I said in the opening post, "Mash slide" ~

Mash slide.

Win games.

[Kikuichimonji]

You can see her do her Furious action after you do a meaty 2A/5A, jump it on reaction, and then punish her. No guessing required. Like Lumin said, you can tech her furious action if she doesn't counterhit you.

[C0R]

Swift Strike also low profiles 5a, for the record.

But the Garu starter if she jumps over it ends up being over 100% on Yuu for no meter. So be careful~

[shinobispectre]

When facing an elizabeth player who mashes Maziodyne full screen, does the slide still work? Is it about timing to get it right?

[Raging Ghost]

When facing an elizabeth player who mashes Maziodyne full screen, does the slide still work? Is it about timing to get it right?

Of course. Well, I guess. Hell, if Thanatos do the beam and you see the start-up, try to use the Slide ASAP.

[shinobispectre]

any ideas on how to catch and break Thanantos? I hate his traps and his weird burst move

[Kikuichimonji]

any ideas on how to catch and break Thanantos? I hate his traps and his weird burst move

After blocking the original attack (I think it's 5C), hold up back. Removes the mixup, the roar is too slow to catch you.

[shinobispectre]

and does that allow for a quick follow up to break a card? Either way thank you for the tip!

[XVII]

After blocking the original attack (I think it's 5C), hold up back. Removes the mixup, the roar is too slow to catch you.

Not necessarily. If the Liz feels like you're going to jump, she can have Thanatos wait until he's done pressuring, then do 214C/D for an air unblockable. It's like a guessing game with a grappler, only with the Persona.

[VR-Raiden]

Ziodyne seems useful in this match. It will CH for a good chunk of damage if she attempts any persona moves in lots of situations. But she can punish with her laser or worse so don't get carried away.

[Fistmaster049]

Ziodyne seems useful in this match. It will CH for a good chunk of damage if she attempts any persona moves in lots of situations. But she can punish with her laser or worse so don't get carried away.

I'm pretty sure Ziodyne is capable of punishing just about anything she does, other than maybe the super grab if she is right next to you and obviously the instant kill

Its so good at "telling Thanatos to shut it" If a Liz gets 2C happy

[Kikuichimonji]

Not necessarily. If the Liz feels like you're going to jump, she can have Thanatos wait until he's done pressuring, then do 214C/D for an air unblockable. It's like a guessing game with a grappler, only with the Persona.

You can also choose to do 5A after blocking, which will beat the grab and the air unblockable, but lose to the roar. I think that you can cancel into uppercut on reaction to the super armor, or maybe even Ziodyne. Not really useful to go into uppercut unless you're going to persona break her though.

[grove03]

You can also choose to do 5A after blocking, which will beat the grab and the air unblockable, but lose to the roar. I think that you can cancel into uppercut on reaction to the super armor, or maybe even Ziodyne. Not really useful to go into uppercut unless you're going to persona break her though.

I'm pretty sure Ziodyne is capable of punishing just about anything she does, other than maybe the super grab if she is right next to you and obviously the instant kill

Its so good at "telling Thanatos to shut it" If a Liz gets 2C happy

I don't see the point in responding to year old messages.

And to make my post relevant, this MU is pretty bad for Liz. All narukami has to do is just sweep>5D and keep her in. She doesnt really have any good reversals outside of her awakening super, but even then its still risky to reversal with that. only pain to deal with is maybe her j.b? if you dont know how to approach. Other than that, its just a struggle for poor liz

[Chris Chaos]

To add onto what Grover is saying: Narukami's normals are good enough to beat out a lot of Liz's moves and break her persona easily. Liz literally has to hang herself in order to hit you, holding down back against her strings is good because her only overheads are jumping normals, so reacting to her jumping is is fairly easy.

Also, 5D with Liz has a huge tell, you can look at either the persona or Liz and tell if she's trying to opt out for a grab. If you look at the persona, you're looking for Thanatos drop his arms, then he will go for the attack. If you look at liz, she will put her hand out with the card hovering over it and you can jump out for free.

Being on the defensive isn't as scary as one may believe for a Narukami player because of these things alone. Hold down back, jump out of persona grab setups, if she throws out a persona carelessly, punish the persona. Make it hard for Liz because you can easily break her and when you do, mess her up.

As said before; Mash slide under Ziodyne as well, do everything else that's been stated, and Liz should be much easier to deal with.

[Omex]

To add onto what Grover is saying: Narukami's normals are good enough to beat out a lot of Liz's moves and break her persona easily. Liz literally has to hang herself in order to hit you, holding down back against her strings is good because her only overheads are jumping normals, so reacting to her jumping is is fairly easy.

Also, 5D with Liz has a huge tell, you can look at either the persona or Liz and tell if she's trying to opt out for a grab. If you look at the persona, you're looking for Thanatos drop his arms, then he will go for the attack. If you look at liz, she will put her hand out with the card hovering over it and you can jump out for free.

Being on the defensive isn't as scary as one may believe for a Narukami player because of these things alone. Hold down back, jump out of persona grab setups, if she throws out a persona carelessly, punish the persona. Make it hard for Liz because you can easily break her and when you do, mess her up.

1. 'has to hang herself' is right. while liz 2b is godly, it honestly doesn't beat narukami j.b at iad j.b spacing at all, making the match a huge pain for elizabeth-outside of ghetto awakening super OSes to deal with it liz just has to get out of 5B and j.b spacing to try and have a fair fight against narukami.

2. Don't look at the persona -at all- for the tell. The persona doesn't change until 10 frames after activation, making it harder to react to than an AoA-Liz, however, reacts instantly. It's basically impossible to react to the persona itself when a liz does 5C (1) 5D for that reason. Think of it like this: Once Elizabeth throws out 5C (she stands for this animation), if she cancels into another normal and she's standing still, it's either the grab (holds out the card, but react to the fact she's standing moreso than the card) or the ice (unlikely since just throwing it out is mad unsafe, and the animation is noticably different.) If she's crouching afterwards, its' either her persona poison (which you can jump out of on reaction generally) or the bubble (hold downback to block it.) Once you figure out that much, it's much safer.

3. narukami's own ziodyne is also a great pain in the ass for liz, since she NEEDS to rely on throwing her persona out at some point in the match. If you really need to get in/get that last hit, you can just disrespect with ziodyne and be done with it. in particular, if you IB the first hit of liz's 5C, you can ziodyne before the second hit comes out and hit her while she's in recovery, period. Only way she can block it is by crouch OMCing the first hit.