[CP] Amane Nishiki Gameplay Discussion

[SolarMisae]

It's so cuuute~!

[Aloci]

Heh, I'm a gaijin too, I just happen to be living in Japan.

And yeah, it feels like his C moves can be special canceled. Canceling them into hops seems to be the basis for a lot of combos.

Thank goodness. I would have been thoroughly depressed if his C normals weren't cancelable.

Edit:

Oh my god... Amane Ball.

<3 :AM: :AM: <3

Edited November 24, 2012 by Aloci

[Starlight777]

Perfect excuse to update sig lol.

[Bedsheets]

Oh man, so I had a huge "Aha!" moment at the arcade today and took two games off of Japanese players, and most of my games were actually very close instead of me getting stomped. Heck, I even had one round where I absolutely slaughtered (Amane does terrible things to people in corners, terrible things).

The main difference was switching my focus from Amane's Cs to his Ds. His drive attacks are incredible. They control a huge amount of space and they just stay out there forever if you hold down the button. I would guess something like 80% of my damage in most matches ended up coming from my drives (with something like 20% of that damage being chip). It felt like I was playing Amane "right" because I actually cared about my drive meter, overheating was a real concern, and I was starting to make game decisions based around things like "Okay I need to back off for a bit and let my drill cooldown." When I focused on C attacks the drive gauge might as well not have been there.

The main result of this was how my opponents played against me. They actually had to respect my Amane. His D attacks just do so much damage, or so much chip on block, and cover such good range and my enemies had to respect that. And I mean, his Ds cover everything. 5D controls horizontal ground space, 2D controls ground to air, jD controls air to ground, j6D controls air to air. There is pretty much no situation where you can't just stick and hold a drill out to make your enemy reconsider advancing. (6D is a special case move, I'll get into it later).

Once your enemy starts respecting your Ds is when the rest of your game opens right up. Scared to rush in? Let me set up a ground drill to control even more space. Hovering around outside of D range? Now you are right in C range. My Cs started to feel like scalpels to my Ds hammer. Once you start getting your drills leveled up the amount of damage and chip you can do is straight disgusting. When I caught an enemy in a ground drill and then used 6D on them the amount of chip felt like cheating.

6D is a very interesting move. It is pretty unsafe to throw out, unless you have the enemy really scared or they are already blocking a ground drill. It is, however, your main way to set your drill level to exactly where you want. Other moves have a limit on how long they can be held, while 6D can be held until the drill overheats. If you can every manage to catch an enemy in your 6D you can get your drill right to the start of level 3, which is very good. Or you can just hold it if you think it will be enough to chip out or kill.

So, things I noticed in no particular order:

-Cs are special cancellable for sure (you can cancel them before their 2nd hit lands).

-Ds are special cancellable

-Both of Amane's distortion drives seem to automatically overheat his drill (or they put on a BUNCH of heat and I was too high already). Which is pretty bad, actually. Maybe better off spending meter on cancels and guard crushes unless the DDs will decide the match.

-j2b is special cancellable so you can do something like command hop > j2b > command hop

-Drill stance automatically cancels after about 1 and 1/2 levels of heat

-If you try to enter drill stance when you already have a drill out you do a D attack instead (generally 6D, because you just input 236D, which is NOT a move you want to be throwing out randomly).

-Amane's command hops auto-correct for facing if you jump over your opponent. Not instantly though, there seems to be some delay before Amane will change facing.

[Toasty]

The news about the D attacks is great news, but I have a couple of questions. With the D moves being special cancellable, do you find them to be useful at starting combos or in the middle of combos at all? I'd imagine a combo with lvl 3 gauge is gonna do some serious damage.

Also how much drill meter can you build with something like 5D?

And thanks for gathering all this great info!

[Bedsheets]

I did not end up using the the Ds at the start or middle of combos personally. It is definitely a thing worth experimenting with! I generally was just holding down the Ds as long as possible to either build as much drill heat as possible or to get in as much damage/chip as possible if the drill was already high level.

I'd say 5D builds something like a little less than 1/3rd of a gauge. But it felt like it was building more when I was in level 3? May have just been psychological (very afraid of overheating at the wrong moment).

I think an interesting application of canceling Amane's D moves might be once the opponent gets used to how long they need to block Ds for. You can cancel your Ds early into say a command hop or into setting up a drill, basically punish the enemy if they start getting too complacent. At least, it sounds good on paper.

[STenSatsu]

Hey Bedsheets, thanks for the first hand info since Amane seems to be a bit rare atm. Does Amane have any 'get off me' moves for when he is being pressured or is it just going to be hope you have 50 heat for counter attack? I was watching one on stream just get torn up by a Bullet because she just stayed on him in the corner all match. I guess his ground drill super might actually be good for that also if you can deal with the overheat (or if it is just a high drill gain then it might even be really good for reversaling).

Other question is what do you think of his Crush Trigger?

[FatalCounter]

Bedsheets, Thanks very much for all these infos. My main concern was about if his D moves could be cancelled or not. And you answered that and more.

Plz keep updating.

[SoWL]

Yeah, the thing that confuses me about all the Amane replays available so far is their lack of Drive abuse. I mean, are there even any characters in BB that are not built around their Drive? Maybe Haku, but he's an exception that confirms the rule.

I hope we'll get more Amanes who realize the power of the drill soon.

Edited November 24, 2012 by SoWL

[Devdan]

I tried playing as him a bit today. You'd think players would give me a round when the machine is set to best of 3, and it's obvious that I am not a threat to their 'character who has existed for years' skills, but nooo.

I didn't even realize his D moves could be held, though I may have been doing it unconsciously at times. I definitely felt like I wasn't playing him right; though you can breeze through arcade mode by doing nothing but hitting D over and over if you so choose to. His drives really do a crazy amount of damage at level 3, but at not-level-3 he does so little damage it's not even funny.

Also, his C overdrive does about as much damage as a jab, am I missing something there.

[Bedsheets]

When it comes to "get off" me moves, Amane does not have a DP or anything of that sort. Amane, does, however, have some moves with some pretty good push back such as his 5B or his 5D. 5B into 5D pushes enemies pretty far away. Amane's 6B or his backwards command hops (214a/b) can be used to create distance as well. His C distortion drive (632146C) has start up invulnerability and his D distortion drive (632146D), while not being invulnerable, does carry the enemy to the other side of the screen. So both are useful "get off me" moves in their own way.

Most of my games today were against Bullet and I found by best bet to get out of the corner was doing and in air command hop, and then letting it change my facing, into either a jB or jD to control space to cover my escape out of the corner.

His crush trigger seems to take a while to come out and has a pretty distinctive animation. Still, I got my opponent with a couple of times, and, given how much chip (and therefore how much barrier damage) Amane can do, using crush trigger to eat into your opponents barrier gauge could be quite useful. In some situations if you forced your opponent to block a drill summon you could also force them to block your crush trigger, so, if they barrier that is potentially a ton of barrier damage.

SoWL: Some characters use their drive mostly as combo parts, such as Ragna, or use it rarely, such as Hakumen (which you mentioned). Not everyone uses it as like, there main footsie tools and attacks like I feel Amane does. And the trick with Amane is using his drives makes them stronger, and not using his drives makes them weaker, so, he has an incentive to use his drives a lot more than most characters. To be honest, I am not sure why it took me so long to use his drives as much as I do now.

[FatalCounter]

In this video, you can see a good hit confirm from his 6A. Amane player was good but Azrael player was better. Azrael pressure is amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ug2nE9fgUc&list=PLCQQND2CK9hZsvsEZ-DsrZrY7NEDXWIMf&index=4&feature=plpp_video

Zettou (aka Fabhop) is used for hit confirm (after his 6C for example), pressure and escape pressure.

His 2B sweeps actually unlike most BB characters.

5B is so good, it can be used like late anti-air.

I think he will have huge trouble vs some characters since he doesn't have a wake-up reversal.

Edited November 24, 2012 by FatalCounter

[DerQ]

In this video, you can see a good a hit confirm from his 6A. Amane player was good but Azrael player was better. Azrael pressure is amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ug2nE9fgUc&list=PLCQQND2CK9hZsvsEZ-DsrZrY7NEDXWIMf&index=4&feature=plpp_video

Zettou (aka Fabhop) is used for hit confirm (after his 6C for example), pressure and escape pressure.

His 2B sweeps actually unlike most BB characters.

5B is so good, it can be used like late anti-air.

I think he will have huge trouble vs some characters since he doesn't have a wake-up reversal.

Lots of stuff to check here. At 55 seconds, it looks like 5B > 5D isn't a true block string (which would be cheap)

You can see at 1:25 he hits the opponent with the second hit of a C move. Notice how long azrael is stuck in blockstun

Also on another related note. If you center your gameplan around your drive meter, what do you use meter for? Supers I assume would be very good for finishing off opponents and that's it... but considering drive attacks build so much meter, you'd get infinite amount of counter assaults and other meter usage lol.

Also, I'm thinking about it, if you play a drive management game, how much does getting combo'ed or getting hit would lower your drive gauge?

Once again, thanks again bedsheets

[Aloci]

You can see at 1:25 he hits the opponent with the second hit of a C move. Notice how long azrael is stuck in blockstun

That was actually a Counter Hit.

You might be able to summon a drill on a Counter Hit like that.

[Krusiv]

-Both of Amane's distortion drives seem to automatically overheat his drill (or they put on a BUNCH of heat and I was too high already). Which is pretty bad, actually. Maybe better off spending meter on cancels and guard crushes unless the DDs will decide the match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77XFJaYImjA#t=8m26s Seems like an automatic overheat than a "had too much already" scenario. Sadness

[Toasty]

Oh I just noticed that's Shadow playing Amane. He's a good player but tends to switch mains a lot, so here's hoping he sticks with Amane!

And here's 2B for those still wondering. It looks like it doesn't have the best of range and it doesn't sweep either, but still hits low. More or less your typical 2B.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Toasty

[WillWork4Instal]

Where are you seeing this Toasty? Also, do we know about Amane's counter Assault?

[Toasty]

Where are you seeing this Toasty? Also, do we know about Amane's counter Assault?

Look in the description of the vid I just edited in. It shows the player names.

Also his CA uses his 5B animation.

[Bedsheets]

Didn't get to play very much today but I had a couple minor finds, potential combo parts.

You can do 5B > 5D > 236C as a combo. I am not 100% sure how 5D stacks up to 3C in terms of combo filler, might depend on the level of the drill. Some combos will require 3C though because 3C sweeps and 5D does not.

You can also do 5C > 3C > 236C as a combo against a standing opponent on regular hit. Not sure if it is the best combo that you can get off of a non-counter hit 5C but, it is something.

[Chris Chaos]

Shadow is known to main "Random Select" in just about every version of BB lol.

EDIT: I'm looking into a lot of Amane videos and I'm coming up with a Character Analysis, I'm almost done so when I post it, if anyone doesn't agree with something in it or feel something is missing, let me know so we can correct it. I want everyone to have a better understanding of this character when we finally get it. Watching the videos, I learned a lot and I want to share with you all what I've seen and what appears to be working.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Shinsyn

[SoWL]

Now this is a good Amane if I ever saw one. He's against a tough opponent, but uses his drills well, has some great combos, and generally puts up a good fight.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Watching that video right now, this guy does a fuck ton of chip damage for an ArcSys game.

[STenSatsu]

That command hop into j.2b (I think) is every bit as dirty as I thought it'd be. Loved those combos tossing the opponents all over. Damn I hope this character ends up decent cause he has me pretty excited to play him.

[NumeroGaijin]

Now this is a good Amane if I ever saw one. He's against a tough opponent, but uses his drills well, has some great combos, and generally puts up a good fight.

Surely agreed. This guy and one other Amane were good or should I say decent. This is the first time I have seen any Amane get over 3000 damage and even though he had to rc to get it....I'll take it anyway I can get it at this point.

[Krusiv]

Surely agreed. This guy and one other Amane were good or should I say decent. This is the first time I have seen any Amane get over 3000 damage and even though he had to rc to get it....I'll take it anyway I can get it at this point.

RCs might be his main use for meter since his supers are seemingly lackluster. I was hoping there would be some sick setups with his 632146D but it seems unlikely now since it overheats his drive.