[CP] Amane Nishiki Gameplay Discussion

[STenSatsu]

Ya, you see ground normal>rising/falling j.d a lot in Jiro's vids. It seems really good.

[Eternal Blaze]

At lvl1 it stays out till you land and gets you a lot of drill meter which is super awesome. Plus if you know the opponent likes to mash out of stuff you simply 6B after you land and get a nice fatal combo :3

[vegta12]

Actually that comment Dora made me wonder why he'd think that. When you look at a lot of matchups, it's a lot of times dependent on who gains momentum first. Outside of neutral, your defense sucks as Amane, but your available tools in pressure are there in large numbers even if it doesn't mean crazy fast overheads and a lot of characters have to expose themselves to risks. All of which can be anticipated to get out of your pressure.

What I do think is the main factor as to why you'll have a lot more 6-4 than favorable matchups is that more characters get to dictate what happens at neutral. Their normals are faster and have more explicit uses than the ones we have. I can poke with ragna 5B, but try doing that with Amane's normals and the first conclusion is "These tools sucks". Try finding a good poke on this character that doesn't have a huge flaw attached to it for that purpose. 5B stuffs well but has 11F startup and ok range, 3C is slow, 5D is slow, 2C/5C/j.C when whiffed are dangerous, A pokes suck in range, 2B is alright I guess but still has 11F startup.

My point is that we don't get to a definitive way to start offense without a well defined risk unlike some characters, therefore don't adopt that playstyle I suggest. What we do get to do efficiently is respond to what an opponent will attempt. A lot of characters have trouble catching us due to how you can move, a lot of characters have to be mindful about what they do when they're not in our faces because they don't want to get whiff punished and we can do it with ease. It's a strength that I don't think matches up to what the top tier can do in this game. An efficient way to set the pace of a match through guaranteed methods versus abusing what your opponent is doing by letting them do it is definitely not as good. I do think though that's it's the best way to approach this character nonetheless.

For instance, in that v-13 matchup. She wants to do 5D? J.C can dodge and if you land a counter hit, that's stupidly good damage. If she wants to send an anti-air sword like 6D, 2C can reset into 6D or start your offense, if you can manage 5C counter-hit, you can do 5.5k at the cost of your overdrive and no meter. Another example is carl, if he activates his doll, you can 2C her for free and zettou from there. It tags her out of her attacks and drains her life bar away. What's carl gonna do about it?

Letting your opponent do something, react, catch on and kill them for it is flawed in the sense that you leave your opponent open to do something to which you might fail to react or predict in exchange for a way to respond. But it's still sounds a whole lot better to me than playing as if my tools were excelling at something else. Patience, intuition, reaction and spacing is your best ally.

ill agree with, playing footsies with amane buttons is kinda of terrible. i feel like i have to react to how the person is and dictate from their owning instead of me whiffing buttons. this is only my outlook though since i havent played a blazblue game since the first one and my main was litchi back then lol.

[TD]

l think what dora means is that amane has the one (or in few cases, several) tools to beat each character. sometimes, the option doesn't have to be good, it just has to exist. he requires alot (a LOT) of yomi, but he's never outright beaten when it comes to the neutral game. it's like, he doesn't win by keeping up with the character/player, just knowing what they're going to do, when, and why.

indeed this sort of style loses without proper foresight and wisdom, but really, so does everyone else's, they just don't lose immediately like he does because they have so many chances to hit you with all their mixups. needless to say, the more experience, the easier when it comes to this guy. it a lot of ways he reminds me of low tier litchi (they make her braindead in every other version, but anyway) or to a lesser extent lambda, fitting the matchup-specific archetype.

[vegta12]

god i still say tao craps on amane. sadly played 60 matches it was basically 1-11 ratio. its not like i got destroyed every match would be 2 wins to 1 win to take the match but i still feel like tao has the whole pace with the match especially with the jumps and dashes and her drive being able to counter your 5C. i see this match basically try to get the health lead and try to sit on it, since a lot of our matches would end up in time out. not to mention the fuzzyguard tao has ouch. ok i'd say its a 6-4 match-up but i could only imagine if a person didnt know how to block on this match lol

[Eternal Blaze]

Do we have any blockstrings that dont have any gaps in them? seems like everything Amane has there's a gap somewhere that people can mash a DP or jump and barrierblock in...

god i still say tao craps on amane. sadly played 60 matches it was basically 1-11 ratio. its not like i got destroyed every match would be 2 wins to 1 win to take the match but i still feel like tao has the whole pace with the match especially with the jumps and dashes and her drive being able to counter your 5C. i see this match basically try to get the health lead and try to sit on it, since a lot of our matches would end up in time out. not to mention the fuzzyguard tao has ouch. ok i'd say its a 6-4 match-up but i could only imagine if a person didnt know how to block on this match lol

j.2B and 6B are really important in this match, it makes her more aware of the buttons she presses. 6A and j.6C and j.D are also useful. Use your mobility and dont still. I agree its pretty ass for Amane so far but there are worse.

Litchi and Arakune are hell for me right now, Arakune's floatiness and teleports make Gekiren miss and trying C normals is risky with his moves and the death-from-above spider so idk what to do against him and Litchi is well.. Litchi lol.

[Eshi]

I'm hating Litchi at the moment. Her pressure is just incredible. I think any character with an obvious weakness is going to have a bad match-up with Litchi, she's easily the most versatile character in the game and can exploit anything.

EDIT: well maybe not easily, thanks kokonoe

[Aloci]

Since I'm a poor 360 owner who hasn't gotten to play this game yet, can someone tell me if 6B is cancelable, and if so, how quickly can you cancel it?

[devilotmarkky]

6B makes you float backwards in the air, which after it's done, you're able to dash forward. i.e. amane corner combos. It's quite a while it takes though to dash.

[Aloci]

6B makes you float backwards in the air, which after it's done, you're able to dash forward. i.e. amane corner combos. It's quite a while it takes though to dash.

Ah okay. I was really kind of hoping that it'd be cancelable on hit, so you could have 6B x 236A, j2B shennanigans >.>

OH WELL. I'll be able to play the game for the first time on Monday lol. I need to make a list of crap to test out.

[QisTopTier]

What in the world does Amane do vs Noel? It feels like if I don't get one good hit in she can literally run a train all over him. Every button press feels like it beats mine, she runs under 5C, her moves pretty much all trade with j5B, and once she's in her buttons just feel like they blow me up.

Also shout outs to EternalBlaze for hilarious Amane mirror matches :P

I found overall in most matches if I'm not moving and being confusing with Amane I tend to lose, but appearing to be random acting aggressive with him works really well.

Edited November 11, 2013 by QisTopTier

[Speebleboppa]

I seem to have this issue that whenever I Zettou A J.B in on an opponent, anything I input following that (typically 2a) gets immediately mashed out of when I land, so any momentum I get in the way of pressure goes quickly down the drain. Am I doing something wrong? :/ I love playing as Amane, but I lose in horrible one-sided matches more often than I win >< and when I win, it's generally because I took an educated guess on what my opponent would do to try and get in on me and countered that.

[DerQ]

@speebleboppa

The j.B has to hit deeper or late cancelled into something else if you want to have more blockstun upon landing and not get completely mashed out of. j.B can go into j.A, j.D, j.2C and it helps to catch people mashing out of your stuff.

@QisTopTier

The problems you are describing are not just tied to Noel IMO. Running under 5C is something that happens constantly since it's the move's weakness. Trading with j.B also happens often if you're not careful about using it, the move has a lot of startup and a pretty damn large hurtbox as well. If she's in, her buttons stuff yours? Could say the same as j.B as most ground normals from Amane are slow or lack in range. I've experienced all 3 of these pretty much for every character I had to face since the game's launch. Though screw her drive lol

[Eternal Blaze]

What in the world does Amane do vs Noel? It feels like if I don't get one good hit in she can literally run a train all over him. Every button press feels like it beats mine, she runs under 5C, her moves pretty much all trade with j5B, and once she's in her buttons just feel like they blow me up.

Also shout outs to EternalBlaze for hilarious Amane mirror matches :P

I found overall in most matches if I'm not moving and being confusing with Amane I tend to lose, but appearing to be random acting aggressive with him works really well.

Against Noel you'll need to know where the gaps in her pressure are to backdash/super/6B. Its a pretty annoying matchup coz you cant really use drills against her as her 4D just coz through that. Her 2A also has hella range where you cant hit buttons and she can pressure with it freely.

Something I realized recently though is how amazing j.2B and 6B are in these kinds of scenarios. They go over 2A's and give you a full combo and theyre safe on block (and whiff in alot of cases), aside from these 2 Amane's pokes are really bad in trying to use them to counter pressure or other pokes.

If she's just running at you 5B/5D/3C/6B can hit her. C normals are very situational in most matchups from my experience so far, they're definitely not the bootleg Axl chains that I expected them to be :X

With Amane thats more or less your goal as he doesnt have a mix-up game, you're trying to confuse your opponent with "noise" and random stuff to force a mistake and get damage off of that.

[DerQ]

Pretty interesting perk I found trying to replicate one video highlight

j.B can chain into j.6C. If done low enough to the ground, you'llhave Amane hit the ground very early on the startup and therefore cancel it. The benefit is not just to have the move appear and whiff. If it's done properly, j.6C's very beginning has slight forward momentum. Couple that with cancelling j.B before all 3 hits connect and you get the full picture. Instead of being "locked" mid-air in blockstun/hitstop, Amane lands much faster and considerably closer to the opponent, almost in grab range.

Gonna start using it this week, I had trouble making grabs threatening as j.B would always push back too far. Will post results when they'll exist

[Dangaboy]

Well that seems like its gonna make Amane's yomi and pressure better now.

[Eshi]

Pretty interesting perk I found trying to replicate one video highlight

j.B can chain into j.6C. If done low enough to the ground, you'llhave Amane hit the ground very early on the startup and therefore cancel it. The benefit is not just to have the move appear and whiff. If it's done properly, j.6C's very beginning has slight forward momentum. Couple that with cancelling j.B before all 3 hits connect and you get the full picture. Instead of being "locked" mid-air in blockstun/hitstop, Amane lands much faster and considerably closer to the opponent, almost in grab range.

Gonna start using it this week, I had trouble making grabs threatening as j.B would always push back too far. Will post results when they'll exist

I just added this trick to my game and it's so funny I can't even handle it. Thanks for this.

[t3hmastaroth]

I just added this trick to my game and it's so funny I can't even handle it. Thanks for this.

I was messing around with this and you can do some neat things with this if they stay standing and you actually do let j.6C connect... Only the second hit will be blocked and you can do j.2C then j.236A and go for j.2B cross-up or something... Since the first hit whiffs when you do j.6C, you can also confuse the opponent by mixing it with j.B, j.2C or j.B, j.2B and maybe they'll see j.6C whiff and get CH by the second hit and you can get a full combo on them...

[Aloci]

So this is a thing that exists.

I have a feeling that 66, 236B, j.B would have worked to start another combo rofl

[DerQ]

Can't find the info on the wiki, but I assume burst is a VS starter (like counter assault). Assuming that's true, you'd start the combo with so much untech time that all regular combo routes would simply not work. 5B > 5C would be impossible with this much untech. The best you'd get is 5B > 5D, 5B > Raibu or j.B > Gosei. Maaaaaaybe 5B > 5D > Raibu, but I doubt it considering you are midscreen and the pushback from the first two attacks.

Heck, regardless of it's starter value, the proration is 10 meaning the followup combo will have very low damage. Even if it is viable in the end, when will the following happen?

1. Requires lvl. 3 drill C

2. Only works mid-screen

3. Only works if the drill is really far away

4. Only works on block and requires bursts

It's flashy though

[Eshi]

i'm gonna do it to LK at NEC, just you wait

[DerQ]

I've been slowly getting used to Zettou as my ground jump. If you want to be in the air or move without using his oh-so-floaty regular jump arc, if you want a bigger horizontal travel distance for leaving the ground, this is /really/ nice. More control over your movement like this make it pretty painful for the opponent to catch you. Zettou back j.B helps playing neutral, Zettou B version forward will make you jump above someone incoming at you if you're in a tight spot. You should still be free to tech airgrabs. The only downside is that you can't block after startup due to the cooldown.

[NumeroGaijin]

I have been working on tking Zettou every now and to see if there is a benefit to it since you can attack faster. Tking Zettou A version you barely see any difference in height at all. Not sure if it makes strings any tighter though (in theory) it should.

[STenSatsu]

You lose the option to air zettou then so I don't think it would normally be worth it.

[DerQ]

Hmmm, doing j.2B crossup/non-crossup attempt should be faster if used in strings, but only by so little. If you factor in jump startup, you're not reducing Zettou's frame window that prevents from pressing buttons by much. Even so, you'll most likely want your air zettou from j.2B crossup or else you need to spend meter to convert from it. There's still definitely the possibility to attack faster though. I think I've been trying to use it after knockdowns, but I don't know if it changed anything or if I gained something from it. For instance Gosei > TK zettou > j.B