Lucalibur Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a 5A 'trades' with Scud(under the theory that there might have enough of a gap to recover from a 2A and go for 5A), would it not just add one of the weakpoints since each of the 2 hits adds a different weakpoint? However, maybe it would give enough Stagger to recover from the 5A CH and follow up somehow, so it would still be in Azrael's favor. Of course, this is all under the theory the startup is that damn long after superflash, and I doubt it is. The after Superflash startup seems to be no longer than 10 frames since the Haku just barely had time to active Yukikaze after 2A(again, under the theory he recovered from the 2A rather than cancel into it), so trying to trade with Scud seems like a bad idea, and it's better to either just block or reversal out of it.
zeth07 Posted March 9, 2013 Author Posted March 9, 2013 Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a 5A 'trades' with Scud(under the theory that there might have enough of a gap to recover from a 2A and go for 5A), would it not just add one of the weakpoints since each of the 2 hits adds a different weakpoint? However, maybe it would give enough Stagger to recover from the 5A CH and follow up somehow, so it would still be in Azrael's favor. Of course, this is all under the theory the startup is that damn long after superflash, and I doubt it is. The after Superflash startup seems to be no longer than 10 frames since the Haku just barely had time to active Yukikaze after 2A(again, under the theory he recovered from the 2A rather than cancel into it), so trying to trade with Scud seems like a bad idea, and it's better to either just block or reversal out of it. I'd rather not go too far into theory and just wait and see. No point thinking too hard about it now.
Lucalibur Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 Yeah, true enough. Better to wait for either when we get more detailed frame data or the actual game.
Kurushii Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Gotta wait for dat mook to drop. 3/29 right? Correct but dont forget shipping and my scan time.
AMB Bakery Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Correct but dont forget shipping and my scan time. You're the best.
LegendaryRath Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 I think we've found our reason to use fatal counters with Azrael http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CUtApW40Svo#t=259s Just imagine what we can do once people get creative
Lucalibur Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 HAHA YES. I saw that earlier today and got really hype. I can barely wait to see Azrael's outright maximum damage potential. That means double marks FC OD combos at -10% HP. Imagine the possibilities, as impractical as they are...
YukiBlue Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Man. That could of been so much more. I desperately want to sit down with this game and play this guy, He could of tacked BHS on there and smashed that guy into another series
Ctrlaltwtf Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkSFohpQpBI&feature=youtu.be&t=3m50s (different vid, same players) I love the way Azrael just stomps you at the end of this combo :P
AMB Bakery Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Man. That could of been so much more. I desperately want to sit down with this game and play this guy, He could of tacked BHS on there and smashed that guy into another series Too bad BHS doesn't wallstick and isn't FRC-able unlike someone's super. I love the way Azrael just stomps you at the end of this combo :P He can stomp at the end of most combos, including most ones ending with rekkas.
LegendaryRath Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Man. That could of been so much more. I desperately want to sit down with this game and play this guy, He could of tacked BHS on there and smashed that guy into another series Because of the Rapid Cancel he just didn't have the meter. And I totally agree that we (with some time) could do better. Finding a way to make use of fatals without using Rapids would be ideal, and I bet we can squeeze a lot more damage out of one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkSFohpQpBI&feature=youtu.be&t=3m50s (different vid, same players) I love the way Azrael just stomps you at the end of this combo :P It's a common and easy ender, usually to end highly prorated combos. Off better starters he probably could have done some airdashes (or something) and picked it up further. I love those stomps though :P
AMB Bakery Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 @LegendaryRath: The thing is you don't necessarily 'use' fatal counters unless you know it's a guaranteed hit (i.e., if you block/force whiff on a dp), you hit-confirm off them. Of course, the combo probably would have been much the same without the buster > rapid sequence, provided he'd be close enough for 5C > 236D to connect. But even top players like Tahichi can't have crazy reactions all the time. I'd even dare to say that the 5C > buster part was auto-pilot and he just confirmed from there. There's also the factor of having a weakpoint applied beforehand, which unlocks more damage potential. Without weakpoints, your safest bet to get damage is going into rekkas. How you continue from there is up to you, though I imagine you might be able to pick up with IAD j.B/j.C or a forward dash into some normal (5B > 6A possible?). I'm surprised this hasn't been already covered by tutorial videos, but we'll probably get an FC combo tutorial in due time.
Lucalibur Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Sometimes you just have to take the risk. I'm sure I am not the only one who already attempted to go for CH only combos without hit confirming because I was expecting it to CH. Sometimes it works, others it doesn't. If we don't want to take the risk though, then it's a rather safe alternative to go from 6C off a 5C, because even without meter\weakpoints we still get a lot of reward off it on FC. Something like...5C(FC)>6C>5A(Don't know if 5A is required)>5B>3C>22C>5B>Rekkas>IAD J.C>6A>IAD J.C>5B>Air stuff. With a weakpoint we could go into Kick Loop\Table Flip off second Rekka hit, and with meter we can make hit confirming easier by going for 5C>Gustaf insteaf, or maybe a BHS ender, or some other combo extender I don't know about.
zeth07 Posted March 12, 2013 Author Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) It is all about hit-confirming. I do NOT think you should just autopilot into what you think might be a CH combo when it could very well not be, because that kinda thing gets you killed/loses your momentum and loses a match. You should know all your hitconfirms properly and NOT autopilot into something that might not work. In the case of that combo, while he might have autopiloted the 5C>236A, that is guaranteed to work no matter what and even works as decent pressure ender if they block it. Then he properly hitconfirms the FC by following up with the RC and into a huge full damaging combo. If you want to go for a FC combo that only works if it FC, you more or less have to specifically be expecting it (outside of actual punishes). That is the reason for knowing full FC combos that wouldn't work otherwise, save those for big punishes. Some examples of the differences between hitconfirming CHs: Bang's 2D, you can easily hitconfirm the difference between non-CH and CH, there's absolutely no reason to autopilot into either one of them. non-CH 2D = Can go into a simple air combo. CH 2D = Can give you a 4 seal combo or something else. If you just autopilot the CH 2D combo, that will NOT work (outside of character specifics), and you will lose damage / knockdown / etc. If you just autopilot the non-CH, you lose more potential damage or seals. Bang's FC 5C, this is one example where the difference between non-FC and FC can have almost totally different follow-ups but it's hard to effectively use them. I haven't exactly tested everything that's possible, but I know you can follow-up FC 5C with like dash 5A or 5B or IAD j.4B, things that otherwise wouldn't be possible. Yet there is absolutely no way to properly hitconfirm the difference, so you more than likely will just go into the default 5C combos to be "safe" about it. Or you have specifically expect FC 5C, in which case you can just press 5C>wait to see FC> then follow-up with 5A/5B as an example, but if it isn't then you just missed out on a combo. (EDIT: I'm still talking about Bang here, to avoid any possible confusion, just wanted to make extra note of that.) Just wanted to give examples for why it is important to hitconfirm properly. In my opinion you should go with what is guaranteed, but know the differences between the two when it is applicable. Edited March 12, 2013 by zeth07
YukiBlue Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 It is all about hit-confirming. I do NOT think you should just autopilot into what you think might be a CH combo when it could very well not beGustaf alone would be enough of a hitconfirm in honesty. If a flashing red opponent, an announcer shouting "Counta!" and 200,000f of Hitstun ain't enough you're doing shit wrong.
LegendaryRath Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 When I mentioned that it would be ideal to find Fatals without using rapids, I wasn't suggesting that Tahichi should have (or even recognized) that he could have done something else. I was just expressing that I was excited to see such a nice combo in an actual match and was wondering about other possible combos. Whenever thinking/talking about Fatal counters, I almost always expect it to be punishing something (Inferno Divider, ect.). I think it was impressive that he took this (seemingly accidental) fatal counter and confirmed it spectacularly. Once again, we're only theory fighting until we get our hands on this game for ourselves. I can't wait to go crazy in training mode!
AMB Bakery Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 >I can't wait to go crazy in training mode >not I can't wait to disco combo everybody, even if it is suboptimal. Step up, kouhai
helix Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Hey guys, i'm kinda new here and i have been wondering about a few things, so if you would be kind enough to reply, please do. I still don't completely understand the concept of valiant charger/hornet chaser combos, so i would like to know how exactly do they work ( is it really a freestyle combo system, and if it is true, then how do you do it ?) Also, i've been wondering, is it possible to apply two weakpoints in one combo without using meter ?, if so, then how? Edited March 13, 2013 by helix
YukiBlue Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Basically. If you're opponent has a weakpoint applied. The properties of the move change. So for example if you apply a high weakpoint, Valinat Chrger does the badass full-screen kick barrage. Low weakpoints make Hornet Bunker...Well. You just fly away. It is possible to apply 2 weakpoints without meter. No idea how though haha
AMB Bakery Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Forward throw combo can get you 2 weakpoints without meter: -Forward Throw > 6A > low AD j.C > 214D, link 5A > TC > 236D (from the combo thread) If your concern is using rapid, you can also do crush trigger after taking a weakpoint with 6D or 3D (or even 5D on an aerial opponent) and apply 2 weakpoints after that (example) Also, to explain valiant charger further, if the move connects while an upper weakpoint is applied, it works kind of like C+D blowback attacks from Hokuto no Ken, in that you use it and then press forward to start the dash and have to (to my knowledge) press forward after each move you do (up to 6). Another interesting property of valiant charger is that most moves, excluding special moves and supers, cause the opponent to wall-stick. This is most like the "turn wall-stick on" option in GGAC's extras menu. Watch that time-stamp youtube link that LegendaryRath posted and you'll see what I'm talking about. EDIT: Now this is what I call nifty. I wonder if you can do the same thing with j.D http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TCeISK9aixQ#t=642s Edited March 13, 2013 by AMB Bakery
zeth07 Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 Hey guys, i'm kinda new here and i have been wondering about a few things, so if you would be kind enough to reply, please do. I still don't completely understand the concept of valiant charger/hornet chaser combos, so i would like to know how exactly do they work ( is it really a freestyle combo system, and if it is true, then how do you do it ?) Also, i've been wondering, is it possible to apply two weakpoints in one combo without using meter ?, if so, then how? Please look over the Character Overview thread here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?15788-CP-Azrael-Character-Overview-%28READ-HERE-FIRST%21%29 And the Combo thread here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?15328-CP-Azrael-Combo-Thread All of those questions are answered in those threads.
Lucalibur Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 EDIT: Now this is what I call nifty. I wonder if you can do the same thing with j.D http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TCeISK9aixQ#t=642s Yes, but J.D's downwards hitbox is not nearly as godlike as J.2D's, so it's not as effective...from what I have seen, at least.
YukiBlue Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 I knew Zeth before he went into mod mode <\3 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
helix Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) Thank you very much, all of you who replied to my post . So i guess i should thouroughly check the combo thread then if it can teach me a thing or two . Also, zeth, i did check the character overview a bunch of times, but i didn't completely underrstand the moves so i just asked . By the way guys, i know it is a bit too early to start saying this, but from what you have seen, what do you think Azrael's hardest/easiest matchups are, and i specifically want to know his match up with Bang ( i'm sorry for asking too much questions) I've just noticed as well that you can apply two weakpoints in one combo without meter without using throw as well by watching that combo video jourdal posted a while ago( however you still needed a weakpoint already applied fo that to happen ) I am starting to think that Azrael has the highest combo potential in the game ( i already have seen, read, and thought up more than a 100 combos by now ) Edited March 14, 2013 by helix
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