[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[Errol]

I thought I read that as one of the change points, you can followup airthrow but damage is lower. You sure?

[HiagoX]

Forgive me, I just remembered it - yes you can, as long as it'a 2B.

I had my memories messed up because I remembered doing RC 2D in a match so I could get more damage out of it. Sorry!

[Crosell]

Thats good to know. dp still the bane of her exsistance?

[StarGazer]

I haven't tried using it that way so I wouldn't know. However, I've dodged bursts countless times with it. A lot of people would try to burst my 236D while getting combo'd at the corner because, if you time it right, your 236D will whiff and their burst won't hit you, giving them a free punish. But everyone ALWAYS messed that up and got hit by 236D after bursting because of the amount of active frames it has, which would lead to me getting even more damage than before. lmao

SWEET. Finally I can do combos safely.

Airthrow is much better now. Better Damage, better heat gain, better carry. Mu and Nu airthrows seem to be changed in the same way too.

[HiagoX]

It's not exactly safe! I actually got punished for that sometimes.

Thats good to know. dp still the bane of her exsistance?

What do you mean?

[Bibiquadium]

Her DP is not ass if not mashed out at random. And with OD it makes it all better.

[Crosell]

It's not exactly safe! I actually got punished for that sometimes.

What do you mean?

Most characters with a dp can shut down her pressure pretty well. I feel like when i play against ragna i spend more time baiting out dp's then pressuring lol.

That could be because my pressure is ass though :3

Edited February 5, 2013 by Crosell

[HiagoX]

Most characters with a dp can shut down her pressure pretty well. I feel like when i play against ragna i spend more time baiting out dp's then pressuring lol.

That could be because my pressure is ass though :3

That's probably because of your blockstrings. You need to be careful with what you're doing and how much you are doing it, otherwise people will just stop you due to all the holes in her blockstrings such as 5CC > 6B and Asteroid Vision/Lunatic Upper follow ups.

On a side note, in Japan they don't really dp much out of blockstrings; they'd rather jab out of them, mostly.

[Bibiquadium]

Why DP when you can IB poke into whatever

[Errol]

i guess comet combos are basically dead? Haven't seen any done at all.

Not even during OD? I guess the startup is still a bit long, or maybe it's just that other stuff is crazy fast during OD. (referring to in neutral with OD actually, not combos).

Edited February 11, 2013 by Errol

[Yoshara]

i guess comet combos are basically dead? Haven't seen any done at all.

Not even during OD? I guess the startup is still a bit long, or maybe it's just that other stuff is crazy fast during OD. (referring to in neutral with OD actually, not combos).

It is still there, it is just now dependent on starter.

You can see it being done here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=K3Yrdkfa7II#t=569s

[SolAscension]

@ Hiago, I'm curious about her combo routes, I know all the optimal combos have been found, but did it feel like there was room for any variance in her combos?

[Primiera]

@ Hiago, I'm curious about her combo routes, I know all the optimal combos have been found, but did it feel like there was room for any variance in her combos?

It seems like most of her corner combos are going to be the best one with a 5D ender into oki, unless she can kill her opponent. I imagine the other combos just aren't going to be used much at all in most match-ups.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Primiera

[Yazumatto]

From Goro's twitter:

ごろー ‏@Aki_Daisuki

マコト17段きたー！

I see Makoto and the number 17 so I'm assuming based Makoto god just got more based.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Yazumatto

[Bibiquadium]

It just says that he's 17th dan

[Yazumatto]

I kinda got that lol.

I'm still at a loss on how the dan system works. He went from 15 to 14 back to 15 and now 17. I know you have to play people that are better than you in order to level up but how many of them do you have to play to level up? Can you play against X 14th dan players at 15th dan to level up to 16 or does it have to be all 15 and up players? I'm assuming it's the former since people can just keep climbing.

Eventually it's going to be FT50 death matches between top 4 in order to level up to 19th and 20th dan.

[HiagoX]

i guess comet combos are basically dead? Haven't seen any done at all.

Not even during OD? I guess the startup is still a bit long, or maybe it's just that other stuff is crazy fast during OD. (referring to in neutral with OD actually, not combos).

You can still use 236A~D during her corner bnb but I don't know which starters allow that. Probably anything other than 2A/5A but you don't see a lot of people use it.

@ Hiago, I'm curious about her combo routes, I know all the optimal combos have been found, but did it feel like there was room for any variance in her combos?

Not much and there's no need for any, honestly.

[milesw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2AcgJpsGM4&feature=youtu.be

ALEXANDRITE II

[Errol]

So about initial dash speed nerfs in CP, is her dash more like other characters in CP?

She's got a bit higher initial dash speed, but her acceleration is really slow. Saw this in CS2 frame data. She's faster than most characters for the first 10 frames or so, but then she's slower . till eventually she's faster again because her max dash speed is really high. Granted the initial dash speed is really about inertia pokes...

[Yazumatto]

IIRC, her dash was indeed affected but her max speed was increased. Not that it makes up for the loss in initial momentum.

[Errol]

her max speed is already way high. see, that makes me wonder if it isn't that her acceleration got buffed more so than it is max speed. because her max speed is already 38 compared to most chars at like 28/30.

I also want to mention that a recent video against Carl has Goro timing out the carl player by using long block strings and RCs.

The thing I noticed was that the carl player got guard bonus. Like, when do you ever see that.

here is the point. That means 5cc > 214AC is a tight block string. possibly more than just tight. could be several frames of leeway to even let a gap into it, don't know..

Edited February 27, 2013 by Errol

[Errol]

I would've liked to double check and look at that closer, but at work now.

[7thFonon]

Never even thought about her dash buff being for acceleration rather than max speed... that actually would make a lot more sense.

[HiagoX]

Initial dash speed feels a little slower but acceleration is faster. That's how it seemed to me.

Regarding 5CC > 214A~CCCCC: Players like Eda and Goro have been doing that for a while. I remember playing against a Makoto player in Akihabara who would frequently use 214A~CCCCC on block so he could RC it and have you block another mix-up. It's actually pretty good.

[Yazumatto]

Her tail does obscure the opponent on the last punch. In combination with the RC animation, you could definitely obscure your next mixup.

Now that I look at her frame data, her dash at max-speed is tied with Bang for the highest so I assume you're right: acceleration is probably what got upgraded in exchange for her initial dash speed.