[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[Kev-Ab]

From another thread:

Makoto: 

- 5D has less untechable time 

- 2D combos can't be done like before 

- j.2C is cancelable now 

- 214A~D no follow up still

- j.D now wallbounds? Not sure if can be followed up.

- 2D lv2 > 5B doesn't work. 

- Lv2 special moves CAN'T be special canceled 

- 6C > 214A~C > 236D only works on corner

...

Dissapointed, a lot.

I hope those changes are an error. This can't be happening. I must be having a bad dream. or a joke.

If not:

A character so bad that almost no one plays, gets some buffs and lots of nerfs instead of only buffs? we will probably can use 2D(2) to 236D but that won't work on midscreen at all.

j.D wallbounces? it could potentially kill orb Oki. unless it wallbounces only on midscreen (but that wouldn't make sense)

Was really orb oki that OP?

Really Arc System Works?

I have slight hope this shit is a mess up of the translator.

I also hope that if this changes are real, after the loketest they reconsider what the fuck they are doing to her, because loketest is only a "TEST" of new changes.

Her combo options in 1.0 were almost perfect, she doesn't need to be touched at all in that subject.

[Shado_Onikkisu]

Ok i just saw this on twitter. not a troll.

 

Makoto info:

- 214B~D and 236A~D stagger on hit

- j.D wallbounds even midscreen

- 2D lv2 > 214C > j.B worked; looks promising

- No follow up after 214B~D

- j.2C > j.C connects alright on hit

[Kev-Ab]

- 214B~D and 236A~D stagger on hit
Maybe we can use them like Bang uses his 5D? That would be good.

- j.D wallbounds even midscreen
Ok, I'm scared about the possibility of Orb Oki being nerfed (again, really arc sys, it isn't OP stop playing with it), but it looks like we will be able to continue 6A to get some actual damage from anywhere to make people be afraid of jumping.

- 2D lv2 > 214C > j.B worked; looks promising

I think it can lead to potentially dangerous OD combos, obviously this will get new routes and maybe some cross gimmicks.

- No follow up after 214B~D
Well, just like before. now we stagger them  if it works like bang 5D, this can be really good, that would mean we can use rapid to get real damage or make him guess what's the next move.

- j.2C > j.C connects alright on hit

Oh, so probably j.B connects too? That looks too good to be real. Just think about it j.2C > j.B > 2B without rapid looks great,

[MoneyD90]

From another thread:

Basically: I quit.

No way that stuff can be legit... How does she do combos that are over 2k?? Lol

[Shado_Onikkisu]

more info.

 

- 214A doesn't go as far anymore.

 

ill update as i find out more.

[Teutonicknight]

Some changes have me a bit worried. Mainly because this character is apparently under some kind of curse. I hope the changes are at least good enough to get me back into the fray.

[Ragnarok_F4]

Makoto:
- 5D has less untechable time
- 2D combos can't be done like before
- j.2C is cancelable now
- 214A~D no follow up still
- j.D now wallbounds? Not sure if can be followed up.
- 2D lv2 > 5B doesn't work.
- Lv2 special moves CAN'T be special canceled
- 6C > 214A~C > 236D only works on corner
- 214B~D and 236A~D stagger on hit
- j.D wallbounds even midscreen
- 2D lv2 > 214C > j.B worked; looks promising
- No follow up after 214B~D
- j.2C > j.C connects alright on hit
- 214A doesn't go as far anymore

 

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=124288358

[Arc Raizen]

I'd rather her stay low-ish tier as long as she doesn't get radically re-worked every version of the game.

 

Not only has she been bottom tier for several versions, she's had entire playstyle changes between almost every version (CS2 > Extend > CP). It's like I'm playing a new character rather than just a buffed/nerfed version. These changes, if legit and stay, already seem like damn near every combo she has now is thrown out the window and her entire game, especially midscreen, has to be re-written.

[Kev-Ab]

Makoto:

- 5D has less untechable time

- 2D combos can't be done like before

- j.2C is cancelable now

- 214A~D no follow up still

- j.D now wallbounds? Not sure if can be followed up.

- 2D lv2 > 5B doesn't work.

- Lv2 special moves CAN'T be special canceled

- 6C > 214A~C > 236D only works on corner

- 214B~D and 236A~D stagger on hit

- j.D wallbounds even midscreen

- 2D lv2 > 214C > j.B worked; looks promising

- No follow up after 214B~D

- j.2C > j.C connects alright on hit

- 214A doesn't go as far anymore

 

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=124288358

I still want to think it's an error in translation or anything like that, because it's the only hope I have left.

Maybe they will reconsider after the loketest...

[Pharrox]

To me, all these changes are very 'meh'. A few slight buffs, and several nerf that can probably be worked around. I doubt it'll really change much overall. As long as 2D is special cancelable, I'd expect something like 2D(2) > 214A~A > stuff to work. 1.1 already killed j.B > j.D, so I can't imagine the new change could make it that much worse, maybe it'll be a good thing, if not it's not nearly as big a loss at this point. Other stuff is basically stuff that isn't used regardless or simply not getting stuff we didn't have in the first place.

 

Looking at some other character's supposed changes, it doesn't really seem that bad.

 

I guess the real kicker would be how bad the 5D nerf is.

[HiagoX]

chill please

[MarkusArx]

Derp DERP Removed

[swordsman09]

- 5D has less untechable time: Uhhh...

- 2D combos can't be done like before

- j.2C is cancelable now: What do you guys think we can do with this? I have no idea what this is really good for.

- 214A~D no follow up still

- j.D now wallbounds? Not sure if can be followed up.: RIP oki.

- 2D lv2 > 5B doesn't work.: Just like we all predicted, they nerfed 2D combos.

- Lv2 special moves CAN'T be special canceled

- 6C > 214A~C > 236D only works on corner: Enough reason for me to quit.

- 214B~D and 236A~D stagger on hit

- j.D wallbounds even midscreen

- 2D lv2 > 214C > j.B worked; looks promising

- No follow up after 214B~D: Even more reason for me to quit.

- j.2C > j.C connects alright on hit

- 214A doesn't go as far anymore

 

 

[Alasthor]

Like everybody i'm interested into buff/nerf, but beyond that, the idea beyond those. So if someone got some clue, i'm interested on answers (not forgetting it's locktest, grain of salt, etc... )

 

 

 

- Lv2 special moves CAN'T be special cancelled

Well... Special cancel of special would have been... OP. Right?

 

- 2D combos can't be done like before

- 2D lv2 > 214C > j.B worked

- 2D lv2 > 5B doesn't work

hhmmm. can't be done like before, but working still?

i'm annoyed that they want us to use 2D drive. What for? Even harder handle on makoto + less reward? Lower lvl of drive mean less dmg, what about proration? Are we suppose to use lvl2 for pressure only?

 

- 5D has less untechable time

mmmmhhhh 5D>run>orb oki still... Ok?

 

- j.2C is cancelable now

- j.2C > j.C connects alright on hit

Well... Feels like a buff. j.2c P1 not that bad, but what about comboing after that? I don't see much of j.2C combo in videos.

 

- 214B~D and 236A~D stagger on hit

- 214A~D no follow up still

- No follow up after 214B~D

So... Cosmic Ray and Lightning Arrow stagger on hit. Great! But it's (still) does not change the fact that you can't do anything after anyway. So... Still useless move?

 

- j.D now wallbounds? Not sure if can be followed up

- j.D wallbounds even midscreen

From my PoV a major nerf in midscreen. One of the good point I still see in Makoto is her capacity to launch someone from midscreen to corner. If you add a wallbounds, but no combo capacity behind, that just major nerf to me (major because... Well she don't have much aside that.^^)

 

- 6C > 214A~C > 236D only works on corner

well...

 

- 214A doesn't go as far anymore

Nerf... strange one. Why nerfing this again?

 

 

-What we see:

It seems like they changing stuff on Makoto like any character. Nerfing stuff that are very strange (I always felt strange with Makoto 2D>5B.), changing stuff here and there. Acting like she was like any character, needing some change, variations. Not really like she need any buff, or seeing her like a character needing some.

 

-What we can hope:

This is basically very first locktest. some change here may announce other changes. I mean that some things here are really, really odd to me if there is nothing else done with it:

Asteroid Vision change can call a change on Cosmic Ray (still hope super armor/projectile invulnerability)

The want of us using lvl2 drive, can call change in frame datalist.

j.D wallbounds can call some change in other stuff. combo possible must be confirmed first.

Cosmic Ray/Lighntning Arrow staggering for nothing but the animation?

 

So it's a very very guess what game I make here. I may be right which mean that we'll have to rework our way of playing with Makoto. Or I may be complitly wrong which mean only another nerf/neutral change time like in 1.1 for Makoto, leading to think that dev still don't see any problem to Makoto or don't want to take some time for some change to her.

 

First locktest of many AND most of characters seems to have been touch by the ban hammer (aside Hazama. 3 Ouroboros, damn it!), so i'm not to panicked.

We can only speculate for now, time to wait and see.

[Teutonicknight]

Looks like nerfs overall again... Idk about you guys, but I think most of these changes are completely stupid, just like last time. And the time before that. And the time before that... I just wish Makoto could be changed like most other characters. You know, at least keep the basic idea of how she plays, instead of turning her playstyle into a mish-mash of pure unrefined frustration.

 

also, I think these changes just might stick around. I've yet to see undesirable initial changes drop from a loketest.

[MoneyD90]

Some of the changes seem more odd then usual. Especially -214A doesn't go as far anymore.. Considering the only time you would do that from a distance is with cosmic ray. It's like they don't want cosmic ray or lander blow to actually be used at all..

[Ragnarok_F4]

Some of the changes seem more odd then usual. Especially -214A doesn't go as far anymore.. Considering the only time you would do that from a distance is with cosmic ray. It's like they don't want cosmic ray or lander blow to actually be used at all..

 

Actually I used that a lot when I was near the corner to make the corner combo, since it had a very long reach. Now, it is possible that is only comboable in the corner. But I think that's my only use, other than that I just use break or something right away.

[Dark Ranger88]

Since Parry is a strike property move now, I wonder if we will see it in combos? Some corner stuff like: 2D lvl3 > 214D~D, or 2C > 214D???

 

It would be interesting if they make it comboable without meter or something.

[swordsman09]

Since Parry is a strike property move now, I wonder if we will see it in combos? Some corner stuff like: 2D lvl3 > 214D~D, or 2C > 214D???

 

It would be interesting if they make it comboable without meter or something.

Wait, it's a strike property move? As in press D twice for a follow-up? I wonder what it'll do for Overdrive combos if anything.

[PrettyLady00]

There's far too much despair here XD. Come! Take heart fellow makotos! This is just the first loketest. Moreover many other characters are facing universal shortening of combos, so when all is said and done we may be better off XD. In addition we have only an incomplete view of the changes, there may be more positive changes that we simply aren't aware of yet.

[MoneyD90]

My hope is they are trying to develop Makoto's drives into more then Lvl3 and 2d lvl2 only with the special cancel and also develop astral vision more. I really like the ideal behind astral vision but ppl can mash as soon as they see it and 234d is way too much risk to counter that.

[Errol]

2d2 into CT, 2d2 into avb, into space parry? 2d2 into BBS for maybe an easy combo followup after BBS? there's some pretty interesting things here.

 

old parry had very serious flaws. I'm taking the new one to last for the entire strike. No more getting hit after you've parried the attack. it could even be a good way to hit a zoner from long range.

 

could be a good version for makoto. like mentioned, other characters are taking big hits.

[Arc Raizen]

Ok guys, we got some concrete changes now, as can be seen here (be sure to watch the video if you can't read Japanese). It looks like her changes are basically what were seen in the loketest.

 

• Level 2 and Level G Drives can be special canceled. Shown in the video, we have 5CC > 5D(2) > 214C~C~CCC and 5CC > 2D(2) > 214B > j.B > j.D(2) > j.623C~D(3) and  OD > 5CC > 5D > 214A~D > 2D > 214C~D > 623C~D > 236236D. Gonna be a massive change to basically her entire play style and change every combo.
• j.2C is no longer garbage. Hit stun looks a bit longer and the rebound has a different trajectory so you can follow up with j.C and even follow that up if you were low enough to the ground.
• Parry is a new move (input 214D) that has guardpoint. Damage seems to be lowered, and the bonus proration on level 3 probably is too. I assume the level 2 version can also be special canceled, but we do see a combo with level 3 that doesn't require heat: 214D(3) > 5B > 5CC > 214A~C~CCC
• Although not shown, I assume some changes we saw in the loketest remain, those being: j.D wallbounces midscreen and 2D(2) > 5B no longer works.

Let the crazed hypothetical rants, baseless assumptions, and general madness begin!

[Teutonicknight]

 j.2C cancels itself on hit and can be comboed without rapid!?

*faints*

That's one dream come true.

 

glad 2D's are special cancelable, that's a lot of combo experimentation and a nice bit of variation to her drive.

[swordsman09]

I hope we can do more than just CC after j.2C bounce. They should let us do things like air dash for a cross up. Something creative.

 

And if they took out the wallbounces, it's almost as if nothing's changed. As far as I know of anyway.