SkyKing Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 In Extend I would space with Noel in a similar manner that I would with Sakura in SF4. I would throw out 5B at the distance that it would whiff if my opponent did nothing, but would CH if my opponent threw out a move. While throwing out the 5B I would a lot of times autopilot 5B > 236A. On whiff, 236A doesn't come out, and you're relatively safe, but on CH 236A combos, and you get a decent midscreen combo, and a good corner combo. On block, since spacing can't always be perfect, the OB is safe, and can only be punished on IB, but even then, you'll be at max range so only very few characters would actually be able to punish that. This is the same method Sakura players use in SF4/SFxT with her cr.MKxxx623HP, except on block it's punishable as fuck. Sadly this no longer works in CP, unless it's possible to get the med range OB to connect upon proper spacing, but it seems like more risk than it's worth. Using 3C as a replacement will be much more risky, but the tactic will fully match the Sakura method in this case since 3C is punishable as balls. Chamber Shot should replace the OpticA for CP. Won't have the same comboability as Optic Barrel, but you might trade off corner carry instead, and ChamShot seems to be pretty decent on block if it's spaced right.
TrueGunnerShadow Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 Correct me if I'm wrong but does Chamber Shot has like a pushback on block? I saw it on this video. http://youtu.be/bMGTuiMbFAo?t=11m22s
SkyKing Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 Correct me if I'm wrong but does Chamber Shot has like a pushback on block? I saw it on this video. http://youtu.be/bMGTuiMbFAo?t=11m22s Yeah, I remember a discussion way back in the opening days of CP when many of the Noels were using Chamber Shot to end strings. If you max range 5B, Chamber Shot should be able to barely connect and cause that pushback, so even if you are negative on block, the space makes it difficult to punish.
Chaoschao222 Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 man this place is dead. Nobody likes Noel and NVG was the only reason people ever came here in the past, so unsurprising. I just wanna play BBCP U. Noel, she has 12k+ combos to be found.
LunaKage Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 That's pretty much the gist of it. I'm always gonna be here, but lately I haven't had any huge reasons to post, if anyone posted any questions, they are already answered by one of you (most likely Litherain) by the time I get home from work. I'll usually add something if I think something needs to be added to the topic, but most of the time you guys have it covered. I feel like a washed up war vet ;w; Oh Lith, by the way, I have a PS3 now, so you can send me a FR "LunaKage"
LunaKage Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 Not sure if I posted these here or not, but these are some corner combos off of a muzzle or an air grab, to put them back in the corner with more optimal damage. www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwmHS9InHzo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdkKx5yAhx8
LunaKage Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 Not sure if I posted these here or not, but these are some corner combos off of a muzzle or an air grab, to put them back in the corner with more optimal damage. www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwmHS9InHzo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdkKx5yAhx8
WolfCrimson Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Question: What does Noel's Overdrive do? The wiki doesn't say.
Litherain-XIII Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 (edited) Noel's overdrive increases the speed of all her drives and cancels the recovery frames of all of them in which she normally would attempt to reload her guns after a drive move has been used This will allow combo paths that normally are impossible to do without rapid cancels in the middle of drives viable. An example would be hitting d.6B > 6C since the recovery of drives would normally result in reloading her guns she skips that with a little delay then hits a 6C afterwards. Increase of damage with her dirstortions and changes her Fenrir distortion to recover faster in the same manner like it use to be in CS2 allowing for double distortions to be possible. Changes her air distortion Thor to be able to recover and air dash after the missile is launched like her CT counterpart use to be. changes her Bloom Trigger(hit multiple times past 2 hits) , Assault Through(makes noels body completely disappear from screen in the middle of the animation and reappear at the time of when the shoulder thrust is about to occur and better invincibility iirc), Spring Raid (remains the same pretty much) Edited June 26, 2013 by Litherain-XIII
LunaKage Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Spring Raid get's increased untech time, allowing you to combo after it from pretty much anywhere. I'll put all that in the wiki now.
LunaKage Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 Which japanese Noel has the best footsies? R1 and Kou Vermillion in my opinion.
FlameIce Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 R1 and Kou Vermillion in my opinion. Thanks Luna. Which Noels are the most consistent/win the most?
DC Posted July 5, 2013 Author Posted July 5, 2013 Any Noel's going to anime expo? Bring back some info!
Litherain-XIII Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 yeah I think delta is going if im not mistaken.
LunaKage Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 Alright, getting back into Mod Mode. Tired of all this inactivity, let's spice it up a bit. Here's a few notes after watching a bunch of recent CP videos: Drive is now clearly an offensive tool. In the entirety of the CS series, Drive was defensive in nature, with a bit of an offensive use when it came to crossup 2D or maybe j.D cancel shenanigans, but other than that, it shined when used as a reversal: CS1 had 5D/2D, CS2 had 2D, CSEX had 4D. In CP, a lot of people are focusing on the negative aspect of how her drives changed, such as 2D losing it's reversal properties, 4D losing it's Head invuln etc. Though looking at the POSITIVE ways drive changed, makes it a much better offensive tool. Drive is now much faster, making it that much harder to react to, which will make people that much more nervous when dealing with it, nervous opponents are more prone to mistakes, but that's kinda not the point, just an added bonus. Due to drive being faster, we now have the 6D(Whiff) > d.5A(Whiff) setup that works on a teching opponent. I've seen in in several videos: opponent techs, 6D > d5A whiffs through the tech and if done right, leaves you with enough advantage to catch mashers with d.6A, or mixup with d.6B(Overhead) or d.6D(Low), which by the way, all lead to a decent combo: (d.6B/d.6D) > d.6A > d.5B > 236A > 665B > 5C > etc. Also, I've noticed that the startup frames of d.6B and d.6D actually look the same, before sweeping with d.6D, Noel brings her leg up as if she's gonna hit with d.6B. It's a case of "Blink and you'll miss it" but honestly, if you blink, you'll get hit anyway. Now let's talk about the 2D change. Despite losing one of the things that made drive offensive: the 2D crossup(RIP), 2D now serves a different offensive purpose, I've seen Litherain talk about it, and I've always kinda tossed the idea around in my head as well. I believe 2D is gonna the "YOLO" move of the game, while it's not as practical as 4D in EX, 2D if used right can tag a player getting too comfortable at mid to mid-far range. Remember that Noel has NEVER had a move that has covered this much space, granted it IS slow, but if your opponent isn't ready for it they can get hit for a decent combo, even leading into muzzle filter on a standing opponent, and we know how much that hurts. Remember though, 2D still has a lot of weaknesses, but I believe if used sparingly, it can prove to be very useful against runaway types. Now as far as Drive's reversal options, we still have 4D, we can't AA with 4D anymore, but it may have even gotten stronger as a ground reversal, it will go through a lot of big moves and it can lead to a decent combo, granted it's not 5k meterless midscreen anymore, but it's better than nothing. 236C and j.2C should NOT be overlooked I've noticed these moves aren't exactly used as much as they were in the beginning, but they still have great uses, especially 236C. In previous games, if Noel wanted to go into a full combo on a standing opponent, she would need to RC > 66A, and in CP it still might be more consistent to do that midscreen, but in the corner especially, 236C is a great hitconfirm tool, you can go into a decent combo after RCing it, and then add to that the fact that 236C does decent damage itself. I watched a video recently where Noel did a bunch of normals into 2C > 236C and it did 1.8k, that's amazing off of an A starter on a standing opponent for no meter, I've wanted that since CT AND I HAVE IT NOW HOLY SHIT. As far as j.2C goes, it may not be as useful as we all were hoping for, but it's uses in neutral and at the end of an air combo are still there. A well placed j.2C at neutral on counterhit can get your opponent off of you, create some space, and give you time to start doing your thing. If you're doing an air combo and you're opponent's just barely too high to go into j.D, you can RB > j.2C for the same effect, especially good in the corner, basically we now have a way to keep opponents in the corner after an air combo, instead of ending in RB, letting them tech, and them getting a free airdash out. It's ALL about Abare In CS2 and CSEX, Noel was all about the big damage, but think about that really, when DID we get big damage? We had practical 5k reversals, 4.2k corner grabs, and 4.2k corner overheads, which was GREAT, but what happened any other time? We got very little with our hitconfirms, granted it's not like I'm asking for much, but if we tagged you in the air, we got a little over 1k, tagged you standing? we got a little over 1k. In CP, her maximum BnB damage has decreased, but she now get's damage much more consistently. 99% of the time if you hit someone in the air you can go into j.D > drive ender for a decent damage confirm, as I said before we get about 1.8k on a standing opponent off of A moves meterless, into a huge knockaway midscreen, and a flat out knockdown in the corner. Basically while it looks like her maximum damage may have wavered, her minimum damage has increased by a lot, and she get's positioning and advantage off of every hit if confirmed correctly. Her anti air game has been affected by this as well. Remember in past games when you used 6A, you either had to cancel into 6C which would whiff if they were too high or if they barrier blocked it, or do fancy shit like IAD into falling j.C and that was only on COUNTERHIT? It was all really unneeded extra stress, and add to that the fact that 6A was really bad on recovery and on whiff, there were times that even the most Normals-Oriented Noel players would just say "FUCK IT! 4D!!!" but now, this isn't an issue. 6A doesn't require a fancy or unsafe confirm, it doesn't require counterhit specific routes either, now it's as simple as 6A > Jump. On hit, you will jump, go into j.C > j.D and combo, on block you will not jump, and be able to easily react to that and throw out 5B and go with your backup plan (ALWAYS HAVE A BACKUP PLAN), while you could do this in previous games, you didn't always have the option of j.D after every air confirm, which meant ending in an air combo for very little damage and no knockdown off of a pretty risky anti-air. Now though? That shit is THE TRUTH. Well I guess that's all I wanted to say for now, I may have forgotten some stuff, but this post is already a pretty decent wall, so let's see if it will spark up some conversation/debate. YOUR MOVE NEW NVG! (In this case, NVG stands for Noel Vermillion Gameplay, IT STILL WORKS!!! CAPPPSSS!!!)
Litherain-XIII Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 I agree on the aspect of drive now being more useful as an offensive tool for noel and its about time it serves the bill well. it still does fall under some risk of getting dp out of but then again d.4D was buffed to have the same invuln. frames as 4D so in that sense it could be baited. I have seen 4D beat ragna, jin, makoto's dps multiple times on their wake up even with 6D as well. so perhaps this will allow for more variated forms of offensive mix-up strings while in drives maybe like 6D > d.4D > 236C / BT or 6D > d.4D > d.6B 236C / BT who knows. On the subject of 2D I personally think its as Luna said basically "Fuck it YOLO" move overall except against runaway players or zoner match ups that made noel have a hard time getting in even if j.D had projectile invuln. I have seen a small amount of players attempt to use it as a jump out of corner move when pressured but IMO 2D in that particular situation looks pretty free to punish before you even land to the ground to follow up on it I advise against the idea unless your opponent likes to let you out for free (its bound to happen knowing netplay). On the other hand I see it being used in combos as a way to produce corner push midscreen in some combos otherwise I have mix feelings on it. J.D has been used as a form of cross up as of late in pressure strings typically IAD > j.D. Im not sure if this is legit or what but if so that's pretty nice considering it pretty much nets 3k iirc, 2k is guaranteed which adds onto the viability of noels drive offensively. the fact that noel can cancel drives again like CS2 is a boost. but whether if its specifically on block and hit im uncertain of, but its confirmed for on hit atleast. If we can on block that could potentially lead to 214A mix-up attempts which leads to some huge damage up in the 4k range. j.2C might have some use as a weird jump in on RC just a thought I had. imo it might be better than j.C in that regards but it requires RC to do it and on hit im sure 3k can be collected from the confirm. but honestly I don't think noel in CP has the luxury to expend heat like that for that idea. maybe in EX but in CP I don't think its a good idea overall unless you feel ballzy. I already stressed how much chamber shot was a HUGE needed buff she needed in ALOT of situations regarding midscreen and clutch situations on hit confirms otherwise would require RC to combo or CH or a crouching opponent. Thank God for 236C. I feel that CP noel is geared more towards normal-oriented noel players and offensive noels overall. she seems to be more dependant on neutral and offensive options in CP as opposed to the wait it out-press D then hit hard as fuck mind set. im interested to see more noel players try to come up with more tech and a change in the overall strategy with her.
Chaoschao222 Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 but whether if its specifically on block and hit im uncertain of They're all Special cancel-able regardless of hit/block.
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