Litherain-XIII Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Eh.....True. I have to admit he did show a few things about drives I was uncertain off. its mostly just me because I don't like to hit drives much unless I really have to since Im no Spark when it comes to blocking. Man would I kill to have his blocking skills.
Alpha152 Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Want to improve your defense? Play without D mapped so she has absolutely no reversals, then practice blocking from there Once you are used to blocking without reliance on D, learn where you are able to disrespect pressure by using D.
SkyKing Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Want to improve your defense? Play without D mapped so she has absolutely no reversals, then practice blocking from there Once you are used to blocking without reliance on D, learn where you are able to disrespect pressure by using D. Ah yeah, if only you can actually win those matches too. :p Truly though, I'm surprised in seeing a lot more drive-happy play from many players in this versions than ever. I suppose it'll be integral to have another dimension to Noel's play when things do get a bit too predictable.
FlameIce Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Why is everyone so against D? The hit boxes on her drive moves are amazing...unlike her normals. I see no issues using them in neutral.(In extend, not sure about cp.)
Chaoschao222 Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Why is everyone so against D? It puts you in a pretty shitty state. It's better now that we can cancel it into shit again, but if shit goes wrong, it goes very wrong
SkyKing Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) Why is everyone so against D? The hit boxes on her drive moves are amazing...unlike her normals. I see no issues using them in neutral.(In extend, not sure about cp.) The problem lies when you fight against certain matchups where your drives are easily answered, so using them in neutral more than sparingly is not a good idea. Also, now that Noel has a better ground/neutral game and conversions, it'd be much better just to block and look for openings. Edited September 19, 2013 by SkyKing
00Bubbles00 Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 The fact that you can have full length combos off of any drive mixup hit (like d6D and d6B) followed by using d6A>22C or d5B>optic barrel is encouraging CP Noels to intiate drives from neutral or block strings.
FlameIce Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 It puts you in a pretty shitty state. It's better now that we can cancel it into shit again, but if shit goes wrong, it goes very wrong At first I used to think that but the more I've played with the character the more I realized how important drive is to her neutral. For instance ill use 2D in netural(cause of the awesome hitbox) Ill do this several times. If they tend to get hit at that mid range spacing, well keep doing it until they learn. If not and they block and punish thats fine too ill gladly take the damage because usually two awesome things have happened. 1. Fear has been instilled in the player at that range. Which usually open things up for getting in. 2. I now have a feel for how they want to punish/ there "tendencies" towards drive. At a critical point in the match ill do it again and punish the punish/take advantage of there tendencies.(make sure to have meter on hand...or not sometimes, depends on the player) This is just one example of how I think drive should be used. I think that just using her normals in neutral is the wrong way to play. If you want that type of gameplay of using mid range normals why not just use Ragna? Then again different playstyles can be effective. This all pertains to EX mind you not CP. Feel free to discuss. Im really curious as to what other people think.
Alpha152 Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 What you explained was basically how Oboro played against RYO and there's nothing wrong with that since it's an effective way of using Drive offensively. However, saying that using her normals at neutral is wrong won't get you very far either. For example, when you're within Noel's 5B range you would opt to use 5D, 2D, or 6D instead? Drive is a great tool when used efficiently, but it doesn't mean it's the only element to her neutral game.
FlameIce Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 What you explained was basically how Oboro played against RYO and there's nothing wrong with that since it's an effective way of using Drive offensively. However, saying that using her normals at neutral is wrong won't get you very far either. For example, when you're within Noel's 5B range you would opt to use 5D, 2D, or 6D instead? Drive is a great tool when used efficiently, but it doesn't mean it's the only element to her neutral game. I think you may have miss read what I said a little. I said "I think that just using her normals in neutral is the wrong way to play." Note the word "just". Her normals moves have a use of course. All of her tools do. IMO. In response to your question as to weather to use 5B at 5B range depends on many factors. The match up, the player, etc. I feel It's a situational thing. For example against Ragna I actually tend to stay away from 5B at 5B range because it tends to trade in neutral with his 5B unless I am + on block. The hit box is not bad, but its not great either IMO. I feel the trade its not my favor because of the "push back effect" when we hit each other(it depends on the spacing but I tend to try to hit with the tip). This hurts my positioning and puts me at a range I feel is not very effective.
LunaKage Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 Using all of your options is the best course of action. I'd hope everyone already knew that though
00Bubbles00 Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 66 5B for the win. Is 6D>d6D possible in CP? I thought I saw it being used to trick a few people in the vids.
Raptor Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) It shouldn't. 6D and d6B have identical animations on start-up, so you probably saw that. Maybe also 6D>RC>6D? Edited September 20, 2013 by Raptor
Litherain-XIII Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) its not possible. you might have seen 6D > d.5A > d.6D. Its a relatively common string they use since its very quick and often you can miss the d.5A coming out if you're not paying much attention to it. Also on the subject of using drives in neutral its player preference imo. I typically refrain from using it outside of defense except for a few occasions when I have meter. otherwise in neutral I would use 4D > 236A/B/C to snipe ppl form far away or place an OB at a spot where they may run into it or jump into it. by the time the 4D whiffs they probably making their way to you since it looks like a free hit eventually in their perspective till they catch on. another I like to throw out every here and there in neutral is 4D > d.5B > BT/AST. the string is pretty nifty since it uses that gdlk poke range of d.5B its definitely as long as Mu12's 5C or longer. I use it sparingly but not often. Edited September 20, 2013 by Litherain-XIII
LunaKage Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 I gotta admit Lith, I never thought of 4D Whiff > 236A/B/C at neutral. It sounds like it might be a good idea, I'll give it a try a few times and see if it suits me.
00Bubbles00 Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 its not possible. you might have seen 6D > d.5A > d.6D. I must be going blind. That's what my logic tells me. I'll have to look at the vids again so I can sleep happy lol. The worst feeling has to come from getting thrown in the middle of a drive move =(. On a side note, Noel figure is up for pre-order: http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?gcode=FIGURE-002323&page=top
Litherain-XIII Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 yoooo I gotta get dat. All set for the pre-order so im good. but yea Luna its pretty decent with the 4D > 236A/B/C in neutral it may not be as effective in CP since we don't have 236A from EX but its probably worth a try a few tries in CP. in EX going into 236A was just incase the opponent is getting in close to you from running and in some cases you can 2A > 6C pick up. its also ok as an anti-air attempt in the event they were jumping in on you. it doesn't work in this fashion all the time but other times it can if you spaced it good enough.
Canine Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 So as a silly little note, and due to my ineptitude when it comes to wiki editing, as anyone other than me noticed that the additional bullets during an OD Fenrir actually do not have ANY minimum damage at all, and thus they don't actually make the OD finish have 1200 minimum damage as the wiki says? (Though the wiki does actually say the 'last' hit has 20% minimum damage, still somewhat irked me, and I don't want to end up breaking stuff there, eheh.) As a reference, you can see here that during that first combo on Jin the additional bullets in the second OD Fenrir don't add to the combo damage (6311 at the time). I dunno was just something I wanted to point out for a long while.
Litherain-XIII Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 That's a good question. It doesn't say anything about the additional bullets being used a second time or an SMP attached. Perhaps the OD additional bullets only count for extra damage the first time while the 2nd time in the same combo it doesn't count towards damage but may add to the value of the untech time to make the last hit of Fenrir to connect. This is just a theory. Otherwise its uncertain from my view point unless Luna has an explanation to his understanding.
Canine Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 I'm not too sure honestly. But with combos being time based now there are a lot of cases where hits in a combo can do absurdly low amounts of damage (single digits) where in CS due to the proration system would've been invalid long before it got to that point in the damage formula. You can even see later on during one of the combos against Tager (around 5:15ish) that eventually all those 6C(1)s get to the point of single digit damage, and even as low as 1 point of damage. Looking at 6C(1)s damage, 450, against the damage of each individual additional bullet in OD Fenrir, 120, it's probably more than feasible that combo damage can wind up being calculated to be below 1 point, to the point where it's rounded down to zero.
Litherain-XIII Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) True. I would assume that because of the new combo time based system it ended up nerfing noels overall full damage due to them just being long in general by nature. it makes a lot of sense when I look at it that way as opposed to the proration based combo system where she did a lot of damage because the proration was so good and high in general. This is evident whenever she gets to the latter half of her combos in CP where she may end with a session of 22Bs what does only double digit damage that within the 10 ~ 20s range of damage which is very low compared to how much it use to do despite its damage is basically the same in EX where it can easily rack up nearly 2.5k by itself. Edited October 5, 2013 by Litherain-XIII
dualseeker Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Sorry if I'm interrupting a convo here, but just thought I'd say hello to you all ^^;. It's been a while since I posted here.
Litherain-XIII Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 well it died several days ago so no interruption occurred. And hey hows it going
dualseeker Posted October 13, 2013 Posted October 13, 2013 I'm doing well, thanks for asking ^^;. How about yourself? Do you still play at all?
Litherain-XIII Posted October 13, 2013 Posted October 13, 2013 Im fine. I still play occasionally with a few friends or just in random rooms. I don't use noel too often as I use to and ended up on the ragna train to a degree. I throw him out to get ready mentally to use noel since I am growing somewhat tired of her being the only character I use. I need a sub _-_ ragna don't count fuck dat shit....
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