Nemesis Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Could I please get some direction on preferable TK ball usage? Now that I can reliably do it
Zeromus_X Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Is this in CSEX? TK Habaya is good in blockstrings, pretty safe if you space it right, can extend your pressure or do throw bait shenanigans. Not sure about CP since it looks noticeably slower but we can probably get away with using it occasionally. It's also good to mix in your oki, like knockdown > charge stein > TK Habaya. At this point, the habaya forces them to block, while allowing you to still recover in time to block if they commit to a reversal, and a charged laser giving you a chance at mixup. This is just one example, you can get really creative, and again, this may not work as well in CP. Airthrow > TK Habaya is pretty good too, gets them scared after you've already been doing 2B meaty/crossunder(or not) setups. If they neutral tech, the Habaya is super meaty and you can do whatever you want.
Tecta1Eastside Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Could I please get some direction on preferable TK ball usage? Now that I can reliably do it *in the corner for oki *if you believe your opponent is going to IAD into it from full to mid screen. *if you are trying to set extra steins.( have a stein bit ready to cover you when you do this) All i can think of atm
pochp Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 I really like using it to mix things up in my pressure against opponents that rely on their anti airs a lot or tend to respect too much. Ex: 2a 6a 2b 2c 3c j.236a (though in that case I prefer not TKing the input) If they get hit you might have enough time to go in and get a small combo (2a 2b 5c 3c ish, depends on situation), on block it feels like it's plus. You can also airdash forward after the recovery of j.236a, good when you're low to the ground.
bakahyl Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 Ikutachi is stein cancellable. Well atleast on hit, but can you do that on block? If so, then this move might be slightly safer than expected (but i don't think so because i haven't seen anyone do it)
C0R Posted January 17, 2013 Author Posted January 17, 2013 Ikutachi is stein cancellable. Well atleast on hit, but can you do that on block? If so, then this move might be slightly safer than expected (but i don't think so because i haven't seen anyone do it) It was shown to be stein cancelable on block in one video, but I can't remeber the link. It's likely that the stein set from that cancel is not jump cancelable, but we'll see.
Nemesis Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 A stein set that is cancelable into a jump from Ikutachi would be pretty great Is this in CSEX? TK Habaya is good in blockstrings, pretty safe if you space it right, can extend your pressure or do throw bait shenanigans. Not sure about CP since it looks noticeably slower but we can probably get away with using it occasionally. It's also good to mix in your oki, like knockdown > charge stein > TK Habaya. At this point, the habaya forces them to block, while allowing you to still recover in time to block if they commit to a reversal, and a charged laser giving you a chance at mixup. This is just one example, you can get really creative, and again, this may not work as well in CP. Airthrow > TK Habaya is pretty good too, gets them scared after you've already been doing 2B meaty/crossunder(or not) setups. If they neutral tech, the Habaya is super meaty and you can do whatever you want. I actually went back and watched the few games we had (since it was you i recorded them) and to my surprise (well it shouldnt surprise me ) you basically enacted in those matches exactly this form of your advice - really it was quite helpful
bakahyl Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) It was shown to be stein cancelable on block in one video, but I can't remeber the link. It's likely that the stein set from that cancel is not jump cancelable, but we'll see. The stein set after Ikutachi on hit is jump cancellable (i think), because otherwise how else do people use a backwards airdash and j.c to combo from it? Edited January 17, 2013 by bakahyl lol @ my horrible english
C0R Posted January 18, 2013 Author Posted January 18, 2013 The stein set after Ikutachi on hit is jump cancellable (i think), because otherwise how else do people use a backwards airdash and j.c to combo from it? That's on hit, µ actually does have move specific restrictions for jump cancels vs airdash cancels on hit as opposed to block.
Tecta1Eastside Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 I wouldnt go for ikutachi outside of combos besides using it to escape the corner; unless i know my opponent is going to block it. I've seen Jin's 5c anti-air beat it out and it doesnt look that hard to dp on reaction.
Errol Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Why is pwnge posting about SAO again? and it's the Mu Forums. You really like that stuff
Tecta1Eastside Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 I guess i should add some of the new u-12 footage. I add whatever vids until i pass out
Lord Pwnge18 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Why is pwnge posting about SAO again? and it's the Mu Forums. You really like that stuff lel i posted it again
pochp Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 I wouldnt go for ikutachi outside of combos besides using it to escape the corner; unless i know my opponent is going to block it. I've seen Jin's 5c anti-air beat it out and it doesnt look that hard to dp on reaction. Since it moves Mu's hitbox, it might allow us to deal with a few specific things. Even though it doesn't work in this case, it still shows the potential : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r1fiTslpLs&feature=youtu.be&t=23m25s I'm usually too slow on reacting to spike chaser with 6c, and both projectiles just cancel each other out, don't know the actual data yet, so this is just speculation.
xntrikcat Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Yo, just wanted to say thanks for timestamping all those matches, Mr. Testicle!
bakahyl Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Since it moves Mu's hitbox, it might allow us to deal with a few specific things. Even though it doesn't work in this case, it still shows the potential : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r1fiTslpLs&feature=youtu.be&t=23m25s I'm usually too slow on reacting to spike chaser with 6c, and both projectiles just cancel each other out, don't know the actual data yet, so this is just speculation. Come to think of it, what level projectile is Mu's 6c? Because some of Nu's projectiles (like spike chaser, because habaya does not cancel it anymore) have been boosted up to level 2 in CP.
TD Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 6c should destroy every projectile that can be destroyed and null 1 hit off the ones that cannot be destroyed. It is level 5.
toanenadiz Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Come to think of it, what level projectile is Mu's 6c? Because some of Nu's projectiles (like spike chaser, because habaya does not cancel it anymore) have been boosted up to level 2 in CP. Do you have a video showing that? I know that Luna Nu's projectiles are level 2 but I hadn't heard about any of Dia Nu's projectile levels outside of her super being level 2. 6c should destroy every projectile that can be destroyed and null 1 hit off the ones that cannot be destroyed. It is level 5. That is its attack level, not projectile level. There are only 3 projectile levels. Mu's 6C had a projectile level of 1 in Extend.
bakahyl Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Do you have a video showing that? I know that Luna Nu's projectiles are level 2 but I hadn't heard about any of Dia Nu's projectile levels outside of her super being level 2. edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r1fiTslpLs&feature=youtu.be&t=12m28s when i made this post @12:28 of that link Wow, spiker chaser seems to be atleast a level 2 projectile now seeing that habaya did not stop it. Which will make this match even more annoying than it already was 6b still seems to cancel into 5d on block, not sure if this will make it safer against characters who can stop the new 6b, 6c blockstring like tager who can sledge through it. @23:30 Ikutachi was used to escape nu's blockstring with spike chaser. Interesting , seeing that habaya no longer stops it. Spike chaser and habaya seem to go through each other , but in extend habaya stopped it. Habaya probably went through because of the sheer amount of hits it has. Edit: a possible different explanation is that each spike is a seperate hit in CP instead of that spike chaser was one hit in extend Edited January 18, 2013 by bakahyl because of my bloody horrible english
Tecta1Eastside Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 http://youtu.be/Pzo5XOUG76E?t=1m3s here's a neat RC combo. Funky Q has gotta alot better. I'll add all the matches later tonight from this vid after i play in the persona ranbats; granted my netbook allows me to enter the chat hopefully
TD Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 That is its attack level, not projectile level. There are only 3 projectile levels. Mu's 6C had a projectile level of 1 in Extend. lol, this is new to me. l thought it was all the same shit. it would be worthwhile to know the projectile level of every projectile then...
pochp Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 Anyone here not in the skype group and want in? Here's some information from it I thought would be useful for everyone. Cor: Starting pressure with meaty 2b on oki stephen awesome: right ok Cor: Stein allows a gapless reset into Linking another dash 2b Cor: So now you're in their face, you have your 2b and 5b chains remaining stephen awesome: oh wait you mean stein cancel from 2b? Cor: No like the stein you set from the j.2c/6c for knockdown hits then stephen awesome: ok Cor: allowing you to reset pressure Cor: So you have them blocking Cor: And you do some staggered late chains Cor: Hopefully catch them jumping Cor: Maybe use a nasty karathrow Cor: But they don't fall for it Cor: And they keep holding downback Cor: And you're like, hmm I need to open this guy up Cor: Time for Cor: Late chain max range 6a Cor: into TK BALL stephen awesome: like... stephen awesome: \2a 6a 2b 6a Cor: More like Cor: Dasing 2a :5b :6a 2b :6a Cor: dashing* stephen awesome: oh my Cor: Her early chains don't have much pushblock, and if you confirm their barrier block you can just end it before you whiff Cor: 1 frame dash doubles the horiztonal range Cor: think about that Cor: double range omohikane Harukasan: I know for certain I've done such a thing before Cor: Immune to Malboro Man Cor: Litchi has only one setup that beats dashing omohikane Cor: One of µ's biggest gaps in her blockstrings is between 2b and 5c Cor: This is when 720, abuster and hakudrive show the most Cor: However, 2b also has a 10f late chain window Cor: Which, when coupled with the 9f startup of 5b Cor: Leaves a total range of gapless > 24f gap Cor: adjustable at your discresion Cor: So he's hitting 2/6d Cor: and you leave a gap to bait it Cor: Your reward of 7k off 5b CH, is THREE TIMES the reward of his drive landing Cor: Therefore the risk reward is highly in your favor Cor: Thus, massive late chains are favorable in the hakumen matchup Cor: If he smartens up, and attempts to IB 5a you Cor: simply adjust the timing to CH the 5a Cor: If he tries to jump, 5b is air unblockable, and you force him into blocking j.aaaaaaa > unblockable airdash mixup Cor: TK hotaru gets trashed because he gets hit out of jump startup Cor: All by adjusting the timing of one simple gap in your pressure string Cor: and mu has these gaps EVERYWHERE Cor: So you can apply this matchup knowledge to every single normal Cor: due to her excessive late chain presence on her huge gatling table Pedro: lol I just read a lot of that, I feel kind of dumb about the late gatling into 5b... I'd just late gatling into 2c since the reward is good anywhere, but I really should go into 5b instead when I'm close to the corner for the extra damage or mixup options on block Cor: The ability to continue pressure after 5b is the big one too Cor: Like if you go into 2c you're done Pedro: depends, 3c into j.236a lets you continue if you don't abuse it Cor: 3c is good too Cor: I pick 5b because it is fast Cor: and is easier to make smaller gaps Cor: and Cor: BIG DAMAGE Pedro: dat damage Cor: 5b > 6b > Sod > 6a > 5c > 6c > ynk Cor: into all the damage Cor: > high > mid > omo Cor: it's like 7.2? I think Cor: maybe higher Pedro: dayum Pedro: I actually hit 5b ch 6b sod loops in a match the other day Pedro: with that combo would you do like ynk > 5c > 2c etc Cor: 5c 2c highloop Cor: midloop Cor: ynk 2 hit ideally Cor: any more and it's not worth it Cor: have to remember the stein count Pedro: yeah Cor: 7746! Pedro: I actually like using 214d sometimes just because I can't remember where all my steins are (shame on me) Cor: That's why they do tachi by the way Cor: instead of habacan Cor: Because you lose stein net via habacan Cor: whereas tachi you keep it Cor: so you lose damage but gain better tostuka after knockdown Pedro: I don't know if I agree with that in the long run Cor: It's up to the player Pedro: pretty sure 4 stein setups are going to be easier with the added level on them Cor: But with totsuka nerf we'll have to see when we get it Cor: Yeah there are already 3 stein nets off throw Cor: so we'll see Pedro: yeah totsuka nerf is sad, the damage part too Cor: p1 nerf Cor: on the other hand Cor: 5a 2a sod 5c 2c Cor: 100p1 Pedro: I guess it's so we can still do some damage with that sad p2 on 6c and ikutachi Cor: SoD starter is now better than 6c was Cor: Even though it's not fatal Cor: So max damage could be higher Cor: especially with bomb change Cor: And charge stein speed Pedro: oh yeah do you know anything about stein speed changes? Cor: All I know is air stein set is much faster Cor: Overall firing speed is roughly 2/3 that of cs2 firing speeds Cor: + increase of game speed makes them look like they fire twice as fast Pedro: yeah Pedro: hard to tell exactly Cor: Need to get my hands on it to crunch numbers Cor: I know the matchup really well now Cor: Maybe like Cor: 5.1:4.9 Cor: Valk favor Cor: Even really Cor: He has some stuff Cor: Mu has stupid uppercut Cor: and kills him in 1.25 combos Pedro: oh yeah Pedro: I just don't like neutral against him that much, I haven't really found a strategy I can rely on Cor: stein set jc j.2c Cor: ball Cor: j.aaaaaaaaa mash Cor: j.a so good Cor: I'm using so much now Pedro: j.a huh, I'll have to try that in the matchup Cor: j.a is good against the circus act characters Cor: valk Cor: haz Cor: tao Cor: bang Cor: cause whiffchains Cor: They can't bait j.c and kill you Pedro: I don't like j.a that much against bang :\ Cor: It's all you have that beats j.b Cor: And j.b is dagawd Pedro: j.b is indeed dagawd Pedro: I just try to avoid it Cor: Yeah Cor: Rising airthrow works against him Cor: As a low to high air to air Cor: Similar to how you fight kune j.b Pedro: but yeah back on valk, reason I hate fighting him is even though I'll probably win most of the time, I'll still lose every now and then and I'll have trouble seeing what I could have donne better Pedro: kune j.b omg souji is too good with that -_- Cor: mu/lam can backdash it for free Cor: Easy fix Pedro: hahaha Pedro: no Cor: wuuut Cor: 5a beats every height backdash loses to Cor: Cause of the extended hitbox Pedro: we're talking about kune j.b right? Cor: http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcse/hitbox/arakune/ar251_05.png Cor: 5aaaaa dat nigga Pedro: oh he doesn't jump in with it Cor: You mean the fuzzy? Cor: Or the iad stuff? Pedro: can't remember exactly as I don't have too much kune exp, but I think it was something like jcable normal into rising j.b ad j.4b Cor: The iad pressure then Cor: you iad j.b Cor: as in Cor: something > jc > jb > IAD > barrier cancel > j.b Pedro: yeah, backdash didn't deal with that Cor: What backdash fixes is the gap between the pressure Cor: when he picks low j.c or land Cor: After you block j.b Cor: Kune's only callout for backdash is 2c Cor: After he hits the ground from j.b Cor: Cause he can't run Cor: It's a little weird to explain Pedro: nah I can see it Pedro: I thought that might be gapless or something Cor: Yeah but he's like +4 after he hits the ground from j.b Cor: His 5a is garbo slow Cor: So he can't gapless you into anything Cor: 2c is only viable chaser to punish backdash Cor: And wild 2c eats dirt on block Pedro: yup Cor: Well sorry, he does have 1 other option Cor: air special cancel j.b final hit into air b teleport Cor: From which he will catch respect and backdash Cor: but will not beat mash Cor: Someone ask me a question Pedro: cor you still there? how do I fuzzy Cor: you can do it off any blocked 6a Cor: where they block it standing Cor: or any deep j.b Cor: but for j.b you need to actually hit the ground then do a rising j,b Cor: you can't jc into rising j.b Cor: else you can't do a real combo afterwords Cor: because you need to airdash Cor: j.b is also a really gay instant overhead on tager Cor: in case you ever want to cheese out brice Cor: lol Cor: Record mu doing 6a > j.b j623c on HIT Cor: Like they get hit standing by 6a Cor: then after you have the recording do the blocking and fuzzy yourself Pedro: so, first of all, thanks :D Pedro: I've been playing around with this for a couple hours in the lab, loving it Cor: It's good to know Pedro: but I've been finding a few other things that maybe you knew or didnt Cor: shoot Pedro: j.b jc rising j.b DP works on a lot of characters :D Cor: The reason you don't do jc rising j.b is because the jc consumes your air option Cor: and you can't do the combo off fuzzy jb Pedro: ah but in the corner, just DP rc etc Cor: In the corner jc is fine Cor: but midscreen you need the airdash Pedro: I find it really tight to get so Pedro: midscreen I think I'd stick to crossups Cor: It's a little tough Cor: certianly Pedro: but yeah so far I've gotten it in the corner on ragna, jin, tager, litchi, haku, valk Pedro: I thought it would only be like tager/litchi/haku Cor: Fuzzy j.b only whiffs on like three characters Pedro: the fun part, I'm guessing you know this, is that DP whiffs on most after the second j.b Pedro: unless you just dash on the ground before jumping Cor: do you know how to do the tao rising j.b combo off 5c? Pedro: nope Cor: Basically, it only works if you microdelay the j.b to hit them when they start to stand back up after the hit recoil Cor: same precept can be applied to j origins Pedro: oh didnt try that Cor: Fixes the problem on some characters Pedro: so this other thing Pedro: I was trying to get a setup, kind of hard to do and requires them to tech immediately, corner combo > j.2c j.5d land j.b rising j.b ]d[ j.c j.b etc. Pedro: but then I realised that j.2c j.5d neutral jump falling j.c is a safejump, that makes ID whiff Pedro: which is more interesting Pedro: because I was always doing whatever jump without steins to get some kind of safejump, but with this one you actually have a stein Cor: neat Cor: I figured the jc landing recovery would mess it up Cor: does it hit crouchers? Pedro: no, but since you're in the air I'm assuming they'll be blocking standing... else j.2c j.5d jump forward j.b is also a safejump Pedro: I'll have to test it out on the guys to see how they react, and which one seems more stable Pedro: loses to rolls obv Cor: So do all the hakumen fuzzy j.b setups Cor: people still block them Pedro: ah you just crouch to avoid the first j.b? sounds like a hard callout though :\ Cor: No like Cor: You beat hakumen's corner j.b setup by rolling Pedro: ah yeah Pedro: I almost always late tech or roll against haku Pedro: our local hakus have been nah for a long time but they started coming back so I'm learning the matchup a bit more now Pedro: oh yeah, also random thing, I think I remember brice telling me you'd told him Mu's should do j.c j.d more when he came back from bbr, I didn't think much of it at the time, but I've been working on that recently too Pedro: it's soo good, just kind of hard to time sometimes, but like, (blocked) j.c j.d 2a 6b (hit) ]d[ 2b 2c 5c 6c etc.... Cor: Yeah dude Cor: people just don't know Cor: ye Cor: My favorite after j.c j.d is Cor: 2a 6a 2b 5d ]d[ j.236a dash 2b > xxx Pedro: ah yeah that looks solid Pedro: got this long one, but people usually get hit or DP at some point so I've only done it fully once or twice so far : j.c j.5d 2b 5c 6d j.c j.5d 2a 2b 5c 6d (236a) 236d 2a 6a 2b 3c (if 2b hits) j.b j.c j.2c Cor: Advanced pressure strings Cor: wooo note : dash j.b j.b DP¨fuzzy works on ragna, jin, tager, litchi, haku, valk, haz (hard: tsubaki, relius) combo : (dash j.b) dj.b DP RC 6a 6b 5c 2c j.c j.2c 2c 6c 6d SoD 2c/6a j.2c (3c super)
Tecta1Eastside Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 I want in on the group. just send a message before you all start a session since i dont leave my skype running on my cpu
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