[CPEX] Relius Clover Gameplay Discussion

[NecroTheReaper]

I think the only difference is that it can be used in the air, but 214D may not have been alone in what did it, which could imply it -might- be unlmited specific.

Anyway, out of curiosity, does anyone else struggle in matches against movement based characters like Tao and Valk as bad as I do?

[Myoro]

They are fifty billion times easier if you get a little exp using them. You have to get inside their head see, think like they do. Before I subbed Tao I was free as a eagle to her.

[NecroTheReaper]

I just feel like lack of an actual air to air and good anti-air makes these MU's a lot tougher than they'd be with EITHER of the two. Most of the time I feel like I just gonna run back and land a magical 4D CH

[Myoro]

Nah man, letting ether of these two have a second to themselves is an error, smother them until they're knocked out.

[NecroTheReaper]

Maybe on Tao, against Valk, seems like the most disadvantaged game of paper rock scissors ever. You IAD forward, he can j.B and get you to the corner with roughly 3k hp gone. You attempt a 214A at round start, he 5C ch's you for 3.5k plus and are now in the corner. You 5B at round start amd hope to get a 5B CH (which does nothing from round start positions) and he 5Ds which somehow magically makes our 5B wiff and he gets a w5C CH into the corner. I guess its that there's no reward for Relius to get outside of a 214A CH from starting positions. Damn lauger wiffing at max range.

Edit: before I get carried away with something that would be better placed in the MU thread, I will say this: OD yoyo combos are badass. Anyone else just pop OD in neutral and spam the hell out of 214A until you get the yoyo combo for 3k+ (you know... the combo where 214C pops them back toward you). Worked twice for me today. First against Terumi, next against Rachel.

[LordSpectreX]

To be fair, Valkenhayn just kinda stops everybody's options. 

 

But yeah swag is fun. After the 214C knockback I like doing 41236B  to make them fly over me and carry on with 5B. Good fun.

[WakeUpDP]

After watching the recent RYO footage on Jourdal's channel, while the pros outweigh the cons for gad leis change (if this is even a real concern), since gad leis now floor bounces, wouldnt this mean crossunder combos for corner positioning are gone? Lately I've been doing j.B>662C>6C>41236B>66B a lot, and I just wanted to hear if you guys think this wouldn't work anymore. I kmow you could still do 214C and just jump over, but the ignis meter man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOpti4rrKyw&t=81 that settles that, on that topic more RYO footage direct links at the end of our video thread. new gad leis looking good

[Poultrygeist]

Absolutely loving the changes.  Can't wait for that patch to hit.  Now if only they'd widen Kokonoe's hitbox, I'm tired of adjusting combos so that they work on her hahaha.

[NecroTheReaper]

At least our OD combos work on her, I'm tired of 214B wiffing in the corner. All in all though, doesn't seem so bad. Granted, RYO never needed to use backstep to escape pressure, but we can't all be RYO. I need to learn wise mashing, so much shit cpuld be punished if I just mashed A.

[Poultrygeist]

I don't wanna derail too much for shit that could go into the MU thread so how about that Lafino buff?  Maybe in OD with the increased untech time we can have some full screen Lafino starters into yoyo combos.  Oh I can dream can't I?

[NecroTheReaper]

Since RYO hasn't used lafino really at all, I dunno how much untech it has. It'd need at least 20f untech I think to combo into 214A.

[NecroTheReaper]

Glitch time: found a glitch involving Nose that works similar to Izayoi's throw RC>CT glitch. If you grab the frame 214D hits (very precise timing) you'll get a green grab with Nose's base damage and starter time. Managed to do the standard OD path out of a grab, as well as actually use 41236D in a standard combo. OD combo damage was about 5300 and normal combo was about 3800. Also, dunno if I just gave out too soon, but it doesn't seem to like smaller hitboxes. Tried it on Tager, Az, and Jin, and to my surprise (sarcasm) it didn't work on Jin. Like I said, maybe I just quit too soon.

Edit: got it to work on Jin.

Edit 2: 214B works as well, also much harder to see coming. Go 214B oki if you wanna combo into grabs xD great heat gain too btw, and 5500 OD combos.

Edit 3: it works with ignis normals xD so I assume it works with ALL ignis moves, but its impossible to time 214A and C to where they're not blocking, and 236D seems to be very very strict. LET THE GRAB GIMMICKS BE BOUNTIFUL!

[Poultrygeist]

Do you have a vid?  I'm having a bit of difficulty figuring out the timing myself.  

[NecroTheReaper]

Its not high quality, but this should give enough detail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAOER8rrUd0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Seems like it'd be really good for meaty 214B oki, everything else seems a bit more situational.

[Poultrygeist]

Yup, got it to work lol.  This is definitely not one for the netplay tho.  Nice find otherwise, I doubt it's gonna get patched out too.

[NecroTheReaper]

Yeah, easiest imo to time is 214B after an emergency tech, but its still not gonna do well in lag. What's nice also is that if they block, you still get a green grab. You'll hear the block SFX and see the blue shield show up, but still get a green grab. Seems like it could make some tricky TRM setups if you can do it.

[NecroTheReaper]

Interestingly enough, if you 214C immediately after a 3C knockdown and they emergency tech, doing a meaty grab will ALWAYS greengrab combo into it. Granted, a lot of people delay tech Relius' pressure, but if you mix this in on those who you pick up a new combo on and/or mash dp, gets you 4.2k meterless.

Edit: aorborn hit 3C alters the timing -very- slightly so its not as straightforward as I thought.

[Myoro]

It also works with 6D and the rest if you time it right.

[NecroTheReaper]

I just felt like specifying 214C since its our go-to oki tool. You bait their dp first, bait there delay tech next, then do the greengrab combo third xD

[Myoro]

How dirty... I love it.

[NecroTheReaper]

So, slightly off topic (sorta like a personal wish) anyone wish 214D had like a 45f startup, useablr in the air, and moderately tracked even if it meant a 6A nerf (idk how it'd be possible to nerf an overhead this bad, but you know)

[Iron Savior]

It could end up like Izayoi's 6B, you can't cancel it into anything and you need to rc to combo unless its on CH

Wasn't that how it worked with Unlimited Relius?

I personally wish we had a reliable reversal and a reliable Gad Leis

[NecroTheReaper]

Well Gad Leis is becoming more reliable in 1.1, but if Relius had a meterless reversal he'd be rediculous. Granted, I think they should give Vinum some more vertical reach, like have some gears form walls on both sides of his body. When characters like Valk and Tao have better super reversals.it irks me xD

[Iron Savior]

I meant his DD reversals are unreliable

Vol Tedo is beaten by a lot of things, a lot more than in Extend, like one of Makoto's spinning moves

Vinum has a really stupid command, and i do it by accident when i wanna use Tus sometimes, not to mention its short range and how unsafe it is on block

[NecroTheReaper]

Vol Tedo should be used as more of a call out than a reversal. Its got invul, but only like, the 8th frame. Works great on people airdashing xD. But Vinum... yeah, they just wanted to make it stupid with the transition from Ex to CP. There was nothing wrong with 632146C, it was reliable and quick to put in. Now it just takes to long to hit the input.