[CPEX] Relius Clover Gameplay Discussion

[NecroTheReaper]

j.B fuzzy j.C requires a really really deep in jump cancel. Ive practiced it, but just seems like its not worth the trouble on a lot of the cast. Late AD into j.B>j.C worked for the first time for me today, but I forget that option frequently. I love how Rel is atm, but I still wish I had my dream of Valk lvl j.C IOH xD. And a more rediculous one, ley not being vulnerable to throws, but anyway.

Maybe I just need more experience, a lot of the vita players didn't know how to tech grabs so now I go for tic setups waaaay too much.

[Kyle]

Finally playing BB, again. I took a break for CS2 - CS:EX era.

I am using Relius and have much to learn. But One thing I want to share is this OKI setup that converts well.

Ending a solo ground combo w/ 3C, J.D, Falling J.C, 5B, CONFIRM.

This sets up OKI which punishes forward rolls and allow advantage on emergency tech. Alternatively, If you make a read they will back-roll, you can do this:

Ending a solo ground combo w/ 3C, J.D, AirDash, J.B, J.C, 5B, CONFIRM.

[NecroTheReaper]

A lot of the safejump j.C stuff has been around since Extend, its really his only reliable oki option without ignis, but generally you want to use 214C oki. Only beaten by late neutral I believe, and it otg's, and because of that plus how long it lasts, makes it really easy to confirm into CT for about 5k damage. If I'm down to roughly 50% ignis, I'd rather do a good damage ignis-less combo than a great damage one that gives no oki or further ignis usage. Luckily the tk lauger path still works which is quick and only uses 1000 ignis.

[Justice7541]

Dumb question but what is his new ground scissors special on block? I can't tell if it's purely for zoning or if there's some use for it in pressure other than looking cool.

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[NecroTheReaper]

Its -9 on block, so its not the greatest pressure tool, though I wouldn't say its for combos or zoning specifically either. Its kinda like guessing which cup the ball is under cuz if they think you'll use the C version and they airdash, you could've opted for the B version which is still a pretty safe distance away from you. Usually though you'll guess between A and c for this, B's distance is kinda stupid.

[Lich]

Or you can do it with falling j.B>jump cancel>j.C>j.2D for a meterless fuzzy guard which is what I'm trying to add in my gameplay.

There is also the classic j.B>6A that is totally be beaten by mashing but they don't expect an unsafe option and go back to crouch blocking.

Late airdash j.B>j.C or empty jump 2B/3C. Mixing how you throw/bait throw with j.2D etc.

The fuzzy will only combo in the corner, but is really strong. It isn't actually worth on some of the cast because messing it up can really suck, but it's fine against most characters. The characters I use it regularly on are Valkenhayn, Relius, Azrael, Haku-men, Tager, Ragna, are the ones I've confirmed it's really easy on. I'm sure it's good vs. more though.

[WakeUpDP]

A lot of the safejump j.C stuff has been around since Extend, its really his only reliable oki option without ignis, but generally you want to use 214C oki. Only beaten by late neutral I believe, and it otg's, and ...

Well the oki he gets from 3C isn't documented/talked about much and not everyone played him in extend. So it's pretty good he brought it up.

And late-tech does not beat 214C, you have to delay 214C according to their tech.

Dumb question but what is his new ground scissors special on block? I can't tell if it's purely for zoning or if there's some use for it in pressure other than looking cool.

Used for knockdown when you can't do 3C like 2C>6C>22A/22B or 236C>214A>22C.

Some relius players, I've seen do stuff like ....>236C>214A>22C>6D(whiff)>214C Although I don't use it personally.

Can be used for zoning to hit out the opponent from full screen setting up stuff like kagura with large orb startup or rachel ground summon george/pumpkin (she shouldn't summon on the ground regardless)

Some combos use it as combo filler in the corner like ...>2C>6C>22A>4D>3C because 22A takes less "time" in the combo as 41236B(which would make the combo drop in some cases).

The fuzzy will only combo in the corner, but is really strong. It isn't actually worth on some of the cast because messing it up can really suck, but it's fine against most characters. The characters I use it regularly on are Valkenhayn, Relius, Azrael, Haku-men, Tager, Ragna, are the ones I've confirmed it's really easy on. I'm sure it's good vs. more though.

That's true whiffing j.C is pretty much the worse feeling, thanks for the pointers. I have to remember about using it.

[NecroTheReaper]

It was mostly a memory thing based off of Extend's 214C xD; I usually time it to hit with all 3 hits though, is there any reason to use it immediately after 3C?

[WakeUpDP]

It was mostly a memory thing based off of Extend's 214C xD; I usually time it to hit with all 3 hits though, is there any reason to use it immediately after 3C?

Not really, if they don't emergency tech then it'll most of the time blue beat leading to an air tech :/

[NecroTheReaper]

Didn't think so. But for a quick list of oki options since it was brought up :O (note, I don't know what all is beaten by what)

3C>j.D>j.C

3C>meaty 2D (can lead to corner crossup)

3C>meaty 214B (can go into some odd throw mixups with ley)

3C>delay 214C

4D>66>1C>delay 214C>IAD (really confusing crossunder

4D>66>1C>meaty 214B>ley (screw with their mind)

3C>236D+j.C (ub setup, not quite as good as 6C setup imo)

Edited November 21, 2013 by NecroTheReaper

[TD]

working on the jin matchup, should be up within the next two days.

[NecroTheReaper]

I just realized lately how much I do this, if its working, is throwing out an air throw just about every other IAD a decent idea for air to air? xD;

[STenSatsu]

IAD airthrow is a BB classic.

[NecroTheReaper]

I just watched through some of my recent replays and noticed when I use 2C/6C in pressure... I auto-pilot into 236C even on block. i need to fix that.

[Elochai]

Playing this character makes me sad sometimes. It's like trying to play neutral is almost always "run away until you can summon or press a button." I don't mean to complain, but yo .

Anyway, real reason why I'm here: Is j.C the only way catch rolls? I'm kinda having a hit or miss time with 2B, and sometimes my opponent delays tech and then rolls so 214C doesn't catch them.

[NecroTheReaper]

I've always liked 214C>2C, I dunno why, it just always works for me. Its not even a real oki, I just like otg 2C

[TD]

Playing this character makes me sad sometimes. It's like trying to play neutral is almost always "run away until you can summon or press a button." I don't mean to complain, but yo .

Anyway, real reason why I'm here: Is j.C the only way catch rolls? I'm kinda having a hit or miss time with 2B, and sometimes my opponent delays tech and then rolls so 214C doesn't catch them.

consistently, yes. besides getting 2b timing down (recommended), and this method, the only other decent way without ignis, is to space yourself right in front of where they want to forward roll. 236d works

yep, that's his neutral game. hes at his weakest without ignis, so summon her and then you can take more risks.

in other news, l didn't forget about the matchups. just my iphone has been acting strange for the past week and l cant seem to find the problem. once troubleshooting in cleared up l can continue posting information. in the meantime, have any of you read the vs ragna thread? how is it?

[NecroTheReaper]

One thing I found out just now, midscreen you can get a full duration OD combo (though it feels reeeeeally tight) by goin 3C>2D>8>OD>2C>xx. Really pushin my execution barrier here, maybe there's an easier way to get full OD midscreen combos, but I'm not sure. The OD has to be done literally before you can even tell that you jumped. I guess startup frames of a jump can be overwritten by OD. Tough, but could be nice for midscreen-to-corner kill combos.

Edit: can do 6D for better combo, but timing is hella strict.

I read the ragna topic since I hadn't noticed it was updated (its on the second page xD;) and I felt really well informed. Luckily Ragna is really straight forward, so the issues I'd have vs 1 good ragna are most likely the same issues I'd have with the next 10000 ragnas xD. I didn't know until now that our 5B was faster than his :O

I didn't know this till now, why wasn't OD Bel Lafino listed for its tracking properties? It would make neutral against zoners sooooo much better, Koko feels like setting up her fireball? Tk lafino. Lambda wiffs arial sword? Tk bel lafino. Mu does... I ddon't really know, she zones to get in, but I'm sure there's somethin this could punish xD

Edited November 26, 2013 by NecroTheReaper

[Kyle]

Found the input to get 22C, RC, Overdrive.

22C, 63214 [ABC], 6D.

[WakeUpDP]

Found the input to get 22C, RC, Overdrive.

22C, 63214 [ABC], 6D.

Overdrive? Did you mean 22C RC into vol tedo?

I didn't know this till now, why wasn't OD Bel Lafino listed for its tracking properties? It would make neutral against zoners sooooo much better, Koko feels like setting up her fireball? Tk lafino. Lambda wiffs arial sword? Tk bel lafino. Mu does... I ddon't really know, she zones to get in, but I'm sure there's somethin this could punish xD

Well it's still 30/20 frames startup not including the jump lol. Pretty random that it tracks though.

[NecroTheReaper]

Still seems like a much easier way to punish from full screen than 214A/B against zoners. Like Rachel frog summoning in the air or even lambda spike chaser from full screen after knockdown

[WakeUpDP]

But you have to be in OD at fullscreen that alone makes the uses of bel lafino incredibly small, and in that case you would have access in that case to OD 214X/j.xD.

The only reward from it is fullscreen knockdown and ~900 dmg.

Nu doing fullscreen spike chaser is just asking to be hit with 214B/C into combo.

It's something to keep in mind but it doesn't change much.

[NecroTheReaper]

It was mostly its usefulness vs Koko that had really gotten my attention. Since her full screen graviton set into fireball can't really be called out by grounded ignis moves before you're forced to block, I managed to land with this fairly easily. While I realize that usin OD for neutral control or extended pressure (or usin for burst) would be safer, occasionally I go neutral to try and land that buffed 214A hit into an unburstable combo.

On a different note, what's the most damage you guys have had with OD? I capped out at 6611 with a 214C into CT with OD tedo ender. Sounds like a lot of wasted meter, but it built 25% anyway lol

[WakeUpDP]

It was mostly its usefulness vs Koko that had really gotten my attention. Since her full screen graviton set into fireball can't really be called out by grounded ignis moves before you're forced to block, I managed to land with this fairly easily. While I realize that usin OD for neutral control or extended pressure (or usin for burst) would be safer, occasionally I go neutral to try and land that buffed 214A hit into an unburstable combo.

On a different note, what's the most damage you guys have had with OD? I capped out at 6611 with a 214C into CT with OD tedo ender. Sounds like a lot of wasted meter, but it built 25% anyway lol

Ah I see your point, but burst is pretty much the only way out of a proper blackhole setup. so idk :/

Didn't play around too much with OD yet but 6-7k seems about where it ends. The most I've seen that I remember is the 6915 dmg from the relius combo video with 5B starter.

[NecroTheReaper]

If you just refuse to get caught by her it's avoided xD I think makin her have to eat witg unburstable damage has its perks if you can kill her before a bh reset. Aaaanyway, now were gettin into matchup stuffs.

What video was that? I wanna get 6900 damage off a B starter Dx