[CPEX] Relius Clover Gameplay Discussion

[StylisH]

They seem hell bent on taking away options that makes a lot of characters who they are (Valk's mix up, Relius pressure, Hazama's ability to be a dick, etc) but I do believe that there will be buffs to balance this. Maybe we get a new J.c normal? (Unless you play Makoto or Tsubaki, who seem to NEVER get buffed)

[NecroTheReaper]

See, its funny that you say that considering their reason behind the patch xD xD. Restore character individuality my ass. Amyway, really hopin the next loketest isnt as retardedly insane as this one.

[Errol]

that translation was off a bit and I fixed it. nothing about restoring individuality.

[NecroTheReaper]

Oh, well thanks then :O still think this loketest was way too out of here however.

[StylisH]

I agree. It has been outlandish. But I won't pass judgement until I see the finished product.

[NekonekoxD]

Holy crap work. Wont be able to finish that video I was gonna make for awhile...

 

 

Anyways. I really really hope they dont keep the 3C change. So for the loketest did they tell people specifically whats changed yet or is it just what people are saying who've played it? I'm hoping maybe he got something other than just 2C jump cancel. Also was the j.b change to the starter level or proration?

[NecroTheReaper]

Neither, it only affected its block/hitstun. I think it basically removed the fuzzyguard we had in the corner. Also I think there may be a gap between j.B and j.C on IB now. No idea since I cant remember j.B's lvl

[Myoro]

Why does our DP trade with stuff? That seems wrong to me.

[NecroTheReaper]

Wrong good or wrong bad? I mean, it trades just about as frequently as other reversal DDs I've seen. However ours still gives us the chance to sideswap/combo/get oki depending on the move. Kinda wish it had respectavle damage though so people would actually be afraid to trade with it. Even if it was just like 1800 dmg with about 550 min dmg

[Myoro]

I mean stuff like a full charged haku 6C that'll take more than a 6th of out health when we're trying to reversal.

 

Now I suppose I should block and punish like a decent human being, but.... it's a DP~~~~

[NecroTheReaper]

Oh yeah... 2k is a bit more than a 6th of our hp isnt it? ... huh. I get what you're sayin though, but if you look at other reversal DDs, some got the same issue of invul ending on like first frame of the actives kicking in. Only meterless reversals that are about the same on block can be allowed to have invul past the first active frame (damn you ID).

[Myoro]

Oh yeah... 2k is a bit more than a 6th of our hp isnt it? ... huh. I get what you're sayin though, but if you look at other reversal DDs, some got the same issue of invul ending on like first frame of the actives kicking in. Only meterless reversals that are about the same on block can be allowed to have invul past the first active frame (damn you ID).

 

That seems kinda backwords. For meter we get a DP that looses invuln on frame one and the opponent has the option to cancel normals into barrier if they're still in their start-up, but meterless DPs have none of those problems and are generally unreactably fast...

 

It's a confusing thing.

[NecroTheReaper]

So, anyone ever tried gimmicky resets with the [5B>5C(1)>6D>j.C]xN loops on opponents who respect? Because of the fact it keeps the opponent standing for forever, feels like you could get 2k from the loop and do:

-delayed airdash j.B>j.C

-grab whenever the hell you want

-after 5C, go for an unblockable setup

-2D into led ley crossup shenanigans or dp bait

-simply end the combo lol

[Myoro]

So, anyone ever tried gimmicky resets with the [5B>5C(1)>6D>j.C]xN loops on opponents who respect? Because of the fact it keeps the opponent standing for forever, feels like you could get 2k from the loop and do:

-delayed airdash j.B>j.C

-grab whenever the hell you want

-after 5C, go for an unblockable setup

-2D into led ley crossup shenanigans or dp bait

-simply end the combo lol

 

Sounds naughty.

 

I'm liable to make something like Loop>j.C>66>2366A+2D cross-up>5B continue.

[NecroTheReaper]

Thing about the crossup ley though is I have no clue exactly how safe it is. Led ley also has a pretty obvious animation when goin for crossups. I mentioned it though cux ppl dont see it alot

[Myoro]

The Idea is first hit of 2D hits on one side, second hits on the other. Due to 2D's nature as a frame trap they'll have to block left and right, If they try to barrier block it they will get a counter assault, while you're leying through them, which will likely whiff, you're invincible on the 3 frame gap making non command grab DPs not work, you will have just crossed up on the 3 frame gap making command normals hard to do unless they were mashing 360's or Kagura's DP

 

I wonder if the frame data would support any of this madness. I'll try after work. This would give Relius something considered hard to block mix-up.

[Myoro]

I'll never get used to BB being bumped down on the main page for P4U...

 

ANYWAY. I watch thuh gawd RYO at work again here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm8lp3KYnSQ&list=UUyV9c57z3v5Ot5d4PklDxeA&index=4 

 

I caught 2 things of interest in particular. First being: 6A>5A+B>6D>(CT hits)>236C>etc

 

Second being, HE USED DASH LEY! HE USED IT SUCCESSFULLY TO GET OUTTA THE CORNER. AGAINST A PRO LEVEL CAR CROWBAR NO LESS! I have never felt so validated.

[NecroTheReaper]

Car crowbar? xD

I watched the rounds, that Bullet round made me kinda sad after he wrecked a good Litchi and Nu player. I watch him, and it always looks like he can get away with almost anything. I mean, TRIPLE 6A? Granted, he got grabbed by the Litchi player that one time, but still. Another thing I notice while watching him is he's not afraid to block for DAYS. "Oh, you hit me and got oki? Pfffft, whatever, I'll just block for some meter and CA." I try my hardest to never block, but he got his gameplan started several times by mashing into oki. I need to mash more.

[Myoro]

So is it wrong that I just don't like our OD? I see RYO use it to get 100% IG back in corner combos by doing 236C~214A>OD>5D>5C(2)>stuff>j.236C~214B, but we can do the same if not better with 50% gauge.

 

Meanwhile we get Jin who's OD let's him do stuff like 5C>5C>5C>5C>22C>5C>3C>632146C for 4200 damage anywhere. I really wish OD buffed our C normals, our other command specials, or Ignis' damage. As it is now I feel it barely helps our neutral pressure mix-up Oki, or confirms, and If find myself, say after an overdrive reversal, doing the same Bnbs I normally do.

 

Whenever I pop OD off of a 3C or ~214A for an OD combo, I end up using an outrageous amount of resources (Like 7000IG and 75% burst gauge) for what is only about 500-700 more damage. It feels like the output isn't worth cost. Maybe if she started regen-ing mid Ignis it might me worth it. >_>

 

Buffs I'd like for OD.

 

More damage on all of Ignis' moves.

Regen starting after Ignis' actives pass, as opposed to her Recovery time elapsing. or sooner even

2D's armour on the 214X moves and 236D (This would be fantstic.)

Less Relius start-up on the 214X series.

Ignis' moves costing less.

Something with Relius' normals or specials.

A change to 2363214C (which we're getting!)

236236D comboing on air counter-hit the way it does in non OD on air counterhit.

 

I'd like any of these things. If I got all of them, I'd be extatic.

[NecroTheReaper]

I think it'd be cool if ignis move costs were halved or even removed entirely for the duration of OD. She already doesn't die in OD, so its not like it would change it too much, but we could get more damaging or more full corner carry combos without using any resources outside of OD. Armor on moves would be cool too, but I feel like it could get outta hand.

Also, what if we could special cancel ignis normals while in OD? Like 6D>214C. Anyway, we're sorta in the midrange of ODs, so I wont complain too much, but I feel rather than ours being too weak, its just a matter of others being really strong.

What I'd really like is a legit functioning air to air. Something that doesn't get beat by every j.A. fighting Ragna's has made me hate our air to air because he can j.A us out of anything, even if he wiffs a j.C (corner, me above him). Maybe we just need a more forward j.A hitbox, but losing most air to air fights is frustrating.

[Errol]

 

Your j.A will never lose to this j.A.

[Myoro]

Errol, that's not our j.A...

[Errol]

I'm just saying you have j.B as an air to air option too.

 

And I'm putting rachel's j.A there because it's undeniably worse for air-to-air than your j.A. If you want to say Relius' j.A loses to every other j.A and is the worst thing since Relius 2c you'll have to get past that one.

[NecroTheReaper]

Your j.A would still stuff our j.B out of startup. Its also still got a more forward bitbox even thougb it does have a larger hurtbox to accompany it. Do you remember how many times I tried to figure.out how to beat your round start wind dash j.A before I found out 5A was the only thing that could do anything about it?

[Errol]

Your j.A would still stuff our j.B out of startup. Its also still got a more forward bitbox even thougb it does have a larger hurtbox to accompany it. Do you remember how many times I tried to figure.out how to beat your round start wind dash j.A before I found out 5A was the only thing that could do anything about it?

but your j.a would stuff rachel's j.a out of startup. game over.

 

there's lots that can be done to stop that by the way (also air to ground not air-to-air)