[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

[Tari]

A lot of characters have to live with not having reversals, haha. Remember when you're blocking that IB + Barrier has increased pushback, so it can help you get out of some blockstrings. I'd argue that 6A has its uses outside of jump-ins (which can actually still beat it if they jump cancel or land and block), but it's pretty specific and you'd probably want 50 meter on hand anyway.

Her super is a pretty real reversal, by the by. 7 frame startup means it punishes whiffed 5A/2A.

[skd]

Oh, go figure, lol. Did you ever find any semi-practical use for it?

It'd be a pretty jackass move to use a taunt combo to kill someone, but I'm still curious. <_<

taunt only combos with trans-am hit at very close range, so the only time you can do a full taunt combo is usually a punish (far range CH, or close range non CH) so usually if you use trans-am to make something whiff and punish it, you can get a combo (close or on CH). theres one /really/ fancy situation i have a use for haha, hopefully i finish this cmv quickly

[thines12]

I want to pick up izayoi but I'm little confused on her play style. I've heard from a mixed tool character, lacking in defense, offensive, spacing, mix-up, weird normals, its all over the place. What should I be doing to play her?

[Tari]

Try her out and see if you like how she feels, perhaps. Run through some of her challenges.

If you want to see how she plays, you can check out match videos, or you can try playing against people yourself. Heck, even just playing against the CPU is decent for getting the feel of a character.

I find her to be pretty insanely fun, but she can be considered a little weird. Her offense game outside of GA mode is pretty lackluster, and her defensive game when being pressured isn't all that strong in general, but she's pretty okay other than that. Some people may have issue with her 5C being shorter range than her 5B, but that's not really a negative to the character.

[thines12]

Thanks, I've tried all the above challenge, training and matches and like her a lot. I just wasn't sure what my goal of gameplay was, so I knida did a mix of everything. As you said my only problem coming from rags is far 5b not having a follow up and no reliable aa.

[Celerity]

Thanks, I've tried all the above challenge, training and matches and like her a lot. I just wasn't sure what my goal of gameplay was, so I knida did a mix of everything. As you said my only problem coming from rags is far 5b not having a follow up and no reliable aa.

When poking with 5B, you can do 5B > 236[C], there's a decent window to confirm and let go of C for it to combo. If 5B whiffs, nothing happens, and if they block it you've got a charge. You can mix this up with 5B > 623 and hold the charge for mind games.

[Tari]

Thanks, I've tried all the above challenge, training and matches and like her a lot. I just wasn't sure what my goal of gameplay was, so I knida did a mix of everything. As you said my only problem coming from rags is far 5b not having a follow up and no reliable aa.

Her 5B can be followed up with 236C on hit for a pretty basic combo, or with 6C on block if you want to extend your blockstring a little. 623B and 623C are pretty reliable anti-airs, you just have to get used to using them slightly differently compared to Ragna's 6A. Remember that you can teleport cancel your specials on block as well.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Tari

[thines12]

Thank you guys again, I'm really considering maining her.

[Dark Ranger88]

Do we have any info on what Trans-am does to Izayoi's frame advantage on her normals? I've been messing around with stuff and it makes 3C (GA) > 2A airtight (even though 3C (GA) would normally be -10 on block).

[Seventh-Prodigy]

Just a couple of fun things with Izayoi blockstrings I've found:

In regular mode, 5B/2B > (5C) > 6C >236a makes a solid string that hits opponents who try to jump or mash out after the 5C. Like stated before in the thread, you can combo off of a confirmed 6C with 236B~214A into a full bnb.

5B/2B > 5C > 2C > 214B actually sets you up behind your opponent with the proper spacing, and you can follow it up with 6B > RC as a tricky cross-up overhead into a good bnb. You can also choose to go for a grab after the 214B, or even go into something like 5B/2A into a bnb since you're crossing your opponent up. A lot of people I play against online don't see it coming and/or can't react fast enough. Of course, this will probably only work once against the person you're playing. If they see the teleport coming, they can easily mash out of it.

On a somewhat related note (maybe this is already obvious), in Gain Art, doing 66 J.C > 2A >5C is a good OS considering that if your opponent blocks the J.C, they'll have to quickly block the 2A low or eat a combo -- even if he blocks both, you're still set to continue you're blockstring. On hit, the whole string connects, leaving you plenty of time to confirm and follow up into 236C~6D into the appropriate bnb.

[Flubsy]

Speaking of 6C, if you're ready for it to hit them, FC 6C -> CT -> 5D -> 5B combos, and leads to DAMAGE. I was doing a standard GA bnb and getting 6.3k.

[Dark Ranger88]

In OD you can combo two Phorizers while in the corner by crossing up your opponent using D Mirage Thruster after Noir Edge.

So you could do (Stuff) JC > j.B > j.C > JC > j.B > j.C > j.236C > 214D > j.C > JC > j.B > j.C > j.236C > D > 236236C > 214D > 236236C

The first Phorizer should hit them away from the corner so that they don't do that stupid wall splat. It was messing me up and I didn't know if there was some trick to landing 2 Phorizers in OD.

Also: CT guard crush into mode change combo sounds useful. Especially if you condition people to block after 6C.

[HagakureStyle]

Just a couple of fun things with Izayoi blockstrings I've found:

In regular mode, 5B/2B > (5C) > 6C >236a makes a solid string that hits opponents who try to jump or mash out after the 5C. Like stated before in the thread, you can combo off of a confirmed 6C with 236B~214A into a full bnb.

5B/2B > 5C > 2C > 214B actually sets you up behind your opponent with the proper spacing, and you can follow it up with 6B > RC as a tricky cross-up overhead into a good bnb. You can also choose to go for a grab after the 214B, or even go into something like 5B/2A into a bnb since you're crossing your opponent up. A lot of people I play against online don't see it coming and/or can't react fast enough. Of course, this will probably only work once against the person you're playing. If they see the teleport coming, they can easily mash out of it.

On a somewhat related note (maybe this is already obvious), in Gain Art, doing 66 J.C > 2A >5C is a good OS considering that if your opponent blocks the J.C, they'll have to quickly block the 2A low or eat a combo -- even if he blocks both, you're still set to continue you're blockstring. On hit, the whole string connects, leaving you plenty of time to confirm and follow up into 236C~6D into the appropriate bnb.

Thank you so much for this. I've just picked Izayoi up, and I was completely lost on what to do blockstring wise. Her moves see to push her far away from the opponent, so it was hard for me to come up with anything.

On another note, a problem I've been having in real matches...I can get hits off on the opponent, but it's really hard for me to confirm into a combo. It ends up whiffing or dropping or something. Maybe this is something I'll naturally pick up the more I play, but I've been struggling with this more with Izayoi than anyone else.

[Ciddypoo]

Speaking of 6C, if you're ready for it to hit them, FC 6C -> CT -> 5D -> 5B combos, and leads to DAMAGE. I was doing a standard GA bnb and getting 6.3k.

By standard GA bnb do you mean blowing all stocks / ending with Phorizer or wha? I've been trying to find a nice go-to punish for stuff, so I've been doing:

Normal mode: 6C (FC) > CT > 2C > 5C > 6C > 236B ~ 214A > 2B > 5C > hj.ABC > land > 5A > 5C > hj.BAB > dj.ABC > j.236C which is around 5.2K and builds 2stock.

[Celerity]

By standard GA bnb do you mean blowing all stocks / ending with Phorizer or wha? I've been trying to find a nice go-to punish for stuff, so I've been doing:

Normal mode: 6C (FC) > CT > 2C > 5C > 6C > 236B ~ 214A > 2B > 5C > hj.ABC > land > 5A > 5C > hj.BAB > dj.ABC > j.236C which is around 5.2K and builds 2stock.

Yeah, it's surprising, but switching into GA doesn't actually add much damage to the combo unless you're in the corner.

Is j.ABC easier than j.BAC for her rejump combos? I've been trying to get the latter down, but I'd happily give up ~20 damage for more consistency.

[skd]

By standard GA bnb do you mean blowing all stocks / ending with Phorizer or wha? I've been trying to find a nice go-to punish for stuff, so I've been doing:

Normal mode: 6C (FC) > CT > 2C > 5C > 6C > 236B ~ 214A > 2B > 5C > hj.ABC > land > 5A > 5C > hj.BAB > dj.ABC > j.236C which is around 5.2K and builds 2stock.

6c fc ct dash 2c 5c 6c 236b 214a 2b 623b 214b 5c jBAAC 5A 623c sjB djCD

[Tari]

Have you guys tested your combos on all of the cast? I know Rachel has a bit of a weird hitbox for Izayoi's relaunch combos, and can't always be picked up with 2B > 5C, depending on range.

6c fc ct dash 2c 5c 6c 236b 214a 2b 623b 214b 5c jBAAC 5A 623c sjB djCD

~5.4k with +6 stock. Nice combo. I'd add it to my normal list of combos, but I can't seem to make it work consistently everywhere against everyone. Could just be execution error on my part.

Does it work if you're carrying out of the corner? The landing 5A consistently goes off facing the wrong direction when I try this with my back to the corner against Jin. I've gotten it to work when I start from the midscreen and carry to the corner, but not outside of that yet.

The slightly easier alternative I've been doing is this one. It doesn't run the risk of the reversed 5A midscreen, at least, lol:

6C (FC) > CT > dash 2C > 5C > 6C > 236B > 214A > 2B > 5C > sj.B > delay j.A > j.C > land 5A > 5C > 623C > sj.B > jc j.C > j.D > falling oki - 5273 dmg, +4 stock

Edited November 4, 2013 by Tari

[Flubsy]

By standard GA bnb do you mean blowing all stocks / ending with Phorizer or wha? I've been trying to find a nice go-to punish for stuff, so I've been doing:

Normal mode: 6C (FC) > CT > 2C > 5C > 6C > 236B ~ 214A > 2B > 5C > hj.ABC > land > 5A > 5C > hj.BAB > dj.ABC > j.236C which is around 5.2K and builds 2stock.

Yea I guess blowing everything isn't standard, but if you're doing a 6.3k combo chances are you're ending the round. (I counted stocks in the combo I was thinking of, I guess it uses 5? Probably can bring that number down a bit at the cost of not very much damage.)

EDIT: @Tari I know Azrael requires tweaking some of my combos, specifically anything using Valkyrie Astrea. 236C -> 6D needs to be delayed as much as possible due to Azraels nonsensical TINY aerial hit box. I've only played much against Bullet/Az/Tao/Relius and other than Azrael having a disturbingly small hitbox, haven't needed any changes.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Flubsy

[Bartlander]

Looking at most of the posts I feel incredibly noobish for posting this, but I'm having a hell of a time landing 236B ~ 214A > 2B consistently. I can get it about half the time, but it almost seems completely random when it will take or not. I try to input the mirage thruster as soon as 236B leaves the stance-cancellable state, but even when I do this it often seems like the 2B comes out a couple frames too late to hit. This is complicated by trying to add the sequence as the part of some combo (challenge 21's 5B > 5C > 236B . . . , etc.), since if I buffer the mirage thruster too early it will just cancel the 236B. Am I missing some obvious trick to this, or do I just suck?

[Dark Ranger88]

It is a tough link that's for sure. A few pages back when CP dropped a lot of people were complaining about how hard it was, so don't feel alone or noobish. You can do it though once you get more comfortable with the character it should be much easier.

Anyways you need to hit the A in Mirage Thruster's 214A input exactly when (or just slightly before) 236B hits the opponent. For the timing on the 2B, you have to do it right when you see Izayoi start to reappear. Then you can go into 5C/5B/623B from there.

Edit: During the first few days I would actually just do 236B into oki against real opponents. Once I got more comfortable with the motions and built other parts of my game somewhat I started trying to implement the 2B link.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Dark Ranger88

[Tari]

Yea I guess blowing everything isn't standard, but if you're doing a 6.3k combo chances are you're ending the round. (I counted stocks in the combo I was thinking of, I guess it uses 5? Probably can bring that number down a bit at the cost of not very much damage.)

EDIT: @Tari I know Azrael requires tweaking some of my combos, specifically anything using Valkyrie Astrea. 236C -> 6D needs to be delayed as much as possible due to Azraels nonsensical TINY aerial hit box. I've only played much against Bullet/Az/Tao/Relius and other than Azrael having a disturbingly small hitbox, haven't needed any changes.

I don't think the 236C > 6D combos require any move changes against any of the characters. The timing on 6D varies a little, but if you just assume everyone is Azrael or someone else who requires precise timing, I think the combos work on everyone the same way.

I was mostly wondering about how the different aerial hitboxes affected relaunch combos.

Looking at most of the posts I feel incredibly noobish for posting this, but I'm having a hell of a time landing 236B ~ 214A > 2B consistently. I can get it about half the time, but it almost seems completely random when it will take or not. I try to input the mirage thruster as soon as 236B leaves the stance-cancellable state, but even when I do this it often seems like the 2B comes out a couple frames too late to hit. This is complicated by trying to add the sequence as the part of some combo (challenge 21's 5B > 5C > 236B . . . , etc.), since if I buffer the mirage thruster too early it will just cancel the 236B. Am I missing some obvious trick to this, or do I just suck?

Have you tried buffering the 2B input? Chances are that you're inputting 214A just fine, and inputting the 2B itself a little too late. Try holding down 2B during the end of the 214A teleport and see if you can get it. Don't wait for the teleport to completely finish before you start inputting the 2B.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Tari

[Justice7541]

Looking at most of the posts I feel incredibly noobish for posting this, but I'm having a hell of a time landing 236B ~ 214A > 2B consistently. I can get it about half the time, but it almost seems completely random when it will take or not. I try to input the mirage thruster as soon as 236B leaves the stance-cancellable state, but even when I do this it often seems like the 2B comes out a couple frames too late to hit. This is complicated by trying to add the sequence as the part of some combo (challenge 21's 5B > 5C > 236B . . . , etc.), since if I buffer the mirage thruster too early it will just cancel the 236B. Am I missing some obvious trick to this, or do I just suck?

If you're planning to just do 623B etc. after the pickup you can just do 2A 5B instead. That's a much easier link than 2B 5B and the range it works at is only slightly shorter than 2B's pickup distance. I usually do it when I'm netplaying or the TV has enough lag to be annoying.

[Bartlander]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I do buffer the 2B; I figured out pretty quickly that you need to input it quickly to stop her from standing back up. Maybe I'll try 2A > 5B instead and see if I get better results. I feel a bit better hearing that others have had trouble with it as well. I guess I just need to practice harder!

[Tari]

Doing a straight 2A > 623B makes the timing window for the second 623B absolutely enormous, as well, if you're looking for more lenient netplay variants of combos.

[Seventh-Prodigy]

Doing a straight 2A > 623B makes the timing window for the second 623B absolutely enormous, as well, if you're looking for more lenient netplay variants of combos.

Now that's something that I've noticed is inconsistent for me. Most times I get it off, other times it whiffs. I know that if you combo off of 2A > 5B/5C then it becomes either impossible or extremely difficult to link the second 623B.

Is it all about slightly delaying the 623B after 214B?