[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

[skd]

No. You only recover faster.

[Celerity]

From air throw:

66 j.C > 2C(1) > 236B > 214A/B > 5C > j.B > j.C > jc > j.B > j.C > j.236C~D - 3195, 1 star, Phorizer OK

236C(w)~6D > 214B > 2C > 5B > 5C > sj.B > j.C > jc > j.C > j.236C~D - 3464, 2 stars, Phorizer OK (character-specific)

236C~6D > 214B > 2C > 5C > j.B > j.C > jc > j.C > j.236C~D - 3491, 2 stars (character-specific)

236C(w)~6D > (214B) > 2C > 236B >214A > 2C > j.C > j.236C~D - 3565, 2 stars, corner only

[Tari]

Is the j.C > 2C(1) path height specific? I messed around with it earlier and ended up not using it for some reason. Maybe it was just execution, haha.

[Celerity]

It works on Noel and Rachel, just has to be a fairly late j.C.

[Tari]

Good to know. I'll have to mess with that combo path more later on.

[abadlime]

that trans am cross up looks sick. hell, all of those trans am combos look sick. the possibilities have been opened.

[Raynex]

Guys how do I mix-up into a low? 66 j.C for the overhead option but how to I fake and go low? 66 (whiff startup of j.C) 2A seems really slow. Is there a trick I'm missing out on?

[abadlime]

whiff grab, 6B feints. That's all i do for low mix ups.

[Tari]

If you're doing stagger pressure from 5A/2A, you can also mix people up with a delayed low or dashing overhead or whatever, but other than that, there's no way to get to a low after you've already dashed aside from whiffing a move (usually air throw) or just letting the dash run out (which takes forever).

[Raynex]

I think what I've been seeing is whiff throw to low. SKD does it and so do a few japanese Izayois on acho, but I couldn't figure out what they were whiffing mid dash to cancel the 66 momentum. Thanks for clearing that up!

So following a basic confirm ending in Strike fall, should I just go into said mix-up or j.C safe jump? I'm trying to find tricky setups from her standard enders in gain art (with D sonic blade for example) but I'm not sure what to do.

[Celerity]

Guys how do I mix-up into a low? 66 j.C for the overhead option but how to I fake and go low? 66 (whiff startup of j.C) 2A seems really slow. Is there a trick I'm missing out on?

After a deep enough 66 j.C, j.236C / land 2B is an unreactable mixup. land > j.9B fuzzy is preferable as a high against taller characters to keep your pressure going if it gets blocked. Don't underestimate a simple empty jump low or empty jump throw, either. Deep 66 j.C and 66 > land 2B aren't that far apart, especially since you can delay the timing of j.C to your liking, or whiff an air grab to come down faster. Finally, you have access to 5C > 2C / TK j.236C which is quite potent, but make sure you don't get caught whiffing part of the 2C.

Another thing is to make sure you're using the best jumping normal for the situation. j.C is a move that you should use behind swords or when you are planning to jump in deep and make use of the blockstun it provides, while j.B is a faster "instant" overhead option that may enable a gap in your pressure in order for you to attempt a throw or punish mashing, i.e. 66 j.B > 5C frame trap. Mix these up to condition your opponent and take advantage of your awesome throw and air throw, which deal absurdly high damage in the corner.

So following a basic confirm ending in Strike fall, should I just go into said mix-up or j.C safe jump? I'm trying to find tricky setups from her standard enders in gain art (with D sonic blade for example) but I'm not sure what to do.

Safe jumping is a good thing and leads into the aforementioned mixup, or just j.C > land 236D into double mixup opportunities.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Celerity

[Raynex]

I had no idea she had some of those options. Incredible stuff, I really appreciate it! I'm assuming for 5C > 2C / tk.j236C that 5C on block is jump-cancellable? If so that's awesome. Will also keep in mind the difference in using j.B and j.C. My goodness I love this character.

[Tari]

5C in GA mode is jump cancellable on block. It is not jump cancellable in normal mode.

2C is, of course, never a low for Izayoi in either mode, but is a good starter if you manage to land it and, perhaps most importantly, has incredible frame advantage on block in GA mode (+5), which allows you to start your pressure all over again. It is unfortunately not jump cancellable on block in either mode, though it is jump cancellable on hit in GA mode. Chains into 6B and 3C.

Your immediate actual mixup options after GA 5C (tk Noir and 3C) are both quite unsafe on block, and 3C doesn't net you anything more than knockdown on normal hit (though it's quite amazing as a fatal counter starter), so be careful not to overuse those options and to instead use 2C, 236D, or a jump cancel to keep your pressure safer and less predictable. Keep in mind that a knowledgeable opponent may opt to just stand-block after 5C if they think you're going to do tk Noir, since they won't lose much health if they guessed wrong, assuming you don't have 50 meter to RC your decision. It's safest to only do the tk mixup when you have meter to make it safe on block.

If you think the opponent will try to jump out of your strings, you can also chain into 6C as a call-out. Safe on block (+1 on normal block) and a somewhat decent combo starter. No guardpoint invuln on the GA version, unfortunately, but definitely better on block.

--

I started writing more than what's here, but I realized I was beginning to write a run-down of all of her normals and gatlings, so I stopped myself from continuing. >_>

Worth mentioning that you can pretty much special cancel any of Izayoi's normals aside from 6A and GA 6C, so you always have the option of either doing a 236/623+B/C special and teleport cancelling it on block. Not really the best option for continuing pressure, though.

Pretty tired, so I hope I didn't mess anything up in here.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Tari

[Rhannmah]

i'd like to know how much frames it takes for a 66C to come out in GA mode. Anyone has an idea?

[Tari]

Don't know the exact frame data on that. Could probably find out with a recording of 66 j.C played back in training mode by the dummy saved to a video, but I'm too lazy.

It's fast enough that regardless of a j.236C~D, 6B, or 3C ender, you can 66 j.C safe jump in all of those situations.

[skd]

I believe it's 17f and +10 when done immediately

[Celerity]

From my testing, the hoverdash has 4 prejump frames, and 5F more before you can do anything, so an instant 66 j.C would be 21F. I might be off by a frame, but I tested it a lot.

[skd]

oops, looking at it again yeah, there are definitely prejump frames, since i used dash jB to test the relationship between frame advantage, you can add dash startup to the advatange as well so it should be +14 on normal block.

and i dont think its off, 21f should be on the money.

[iora]

5C in GA mode is jump cancellable on block. It is not jump cancellable in normal mode.

2C is, of course, never a low for Izayoi in either mode, but is a good starter if you manage to land it and, perhaps most importantly, has incredible frame advantage on block in GA mode (+5), which allows you to start your pressure all over again. It is unfortunately not jump cancellable on block in either mode, though it is jump cancellable on hit in GA mode. Chains into 6B and 3C.

Your immediate actual mixup options after GA 5C (tk Noir and 3C) are both quite unsafe on block, and 3C doesn't net you anything more than knockdown on normal hit (though it's quite amazing as a fatal counter starter), so be careful not to overuse those options and to instead use 2C, 236D, or a jump cancel to keep your pressure safer and less predictable. Keep in mind that a knowledgeable opponent may opt to just stand-block after 5C if they think you're going to do tk Noir, since they won't lose much health if they guessed wrong, assuming you don't have 50 meter to RC your decision. It's safest to only do the tk mixup when you have meter to make it safe on block.

If you think the opponent will try to jump out of your strings, you can also chain into 6C as a call-out. Safe on block (+1 on normal block) and a somewhat decent combo starter. No guardpoint on the GA version, unfortunately, but definitely better on block.

--

I started writing more than what's here, but I realized I was beginning to write a run-down of all of her normals and gatlings, so I stopped myself from continuing. >_>

Worth mentioning that you can pretty much special cancel any of Izayoi's normals aside from 6A and GA 6C, so you always have the option of either doing a 236/623+B/C special and teleport cancelling it on block. Not really the best option for continuing pressure, though.

Pretty tired, so I hope I didn't mess anything up in here.

normal 6c is 4-10 body invul, not guard point. guard point is 6a. (source, das wiki)

^^

==============

side notes, does anyone have a notable video of izayoi gameplay where its a lot of neutral being applied well, not a trainwreck oki tornado double perfect or her getting lost in her opponents rhythm?

last big set of casuals made me realize i have no fucking idea what im doing and i want match vids to analyze. just curious of you guys have any off hand ^^ otherwise ill just dig around later tonight

Edited November 20, 2013 by iora

[Tari]

normal 6c is 4-10 body invul, not guard point. guard point is 6a. (source, das wiki)

^^

Whoops, meant body invuln, but I guess I just auto-piloted when I wrote that. Wish it were more useful than it is, but eh. Thanks for the catch!

Not sure what you're looking for with neutral game. It pretty much revolves around 5B, sabers, and 236/632 moves. You occasionally see some spacing or poking with jumping normals or 2A/2B, as well. There are some really annoying matches where both players are just hopping around for the entire match (Taokaka matches in particular) that could be considered a long neutral game, but those aren't exactly the norm.

Here's a Tao game where Izayoi actually wins and where it's not just a minute of Tao smacking her in the face: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qplmg-1-3E&feature=youtu.be&t=10m30s

Edited November 20, 2013 by Tari

[crimsonstardust]

Does anyone know how many frames you have to D teleport during Justice Phorizer? It feels like a small window cause I could never pull it off online and I can do it consistently offline.

[Celerity]

Does anyone know how many frames you have to D teleport during Justice Phorizer? It feels like a small window cause I could never pull it off online and I can do it consistently offline.

It depends how close you are and what you're trying to link afterwards. Its cancel timing isn't affected by whether it hits or whiffs, so when the opponent is point blank, you might have to delay it for a little longer than what feels natural. The window itself is very long, ~30F or something.

[Tenryuga]

Hello; I just joined dustloop today and I want to main Izayoi but don't know how to go about learning her. Should I start with block strings or BnBs?

[crimsonstardust]

Well I would say some bread and butters to start and get use to moving around in GA mode cause it will feel weird. Also get a good feel for her normals cause the C normals change in GA mode and its easy to whiff 5C in GA if your not used to her normals. For block strings get used to stance canceling to keep your strings safe.

If your gonna learn to do the jump loop in normal practice on Noel cause she's the hardest to do it on, if you feel frustrated with that Ragna is a decent one to practice on too (jump loop info should be on the first post of the combo thread).

During GA mode you can jump or air dash out of the dash she does in that mode, nearly forgot to mention that.

[Seventh-Prodigy]

So following a basic confirm ending in Strike fall, should I just go into said mix-up or j.C safe jump? I'm trying to find tricky setups from her standard enders in gain art (with D sonic blade for example) but I'm not sure what to do.

Late reply, but something I've been having success in doing against a friend is Strike fall > land > 214B > Stuff. You're landing and then crossing them up, which messes them up quite a bit if they're instantly teching, and even more so if they're trying to input a DP. This also works in the corner!