The State of Netplay – A call for Netplay Heroes (PSN Edition)

[xntrikcat]

Here we are again. BB is not in EVO lineup once again, and the sky is falling. P4, despite its glaring flaws and its relative novelty to the scene, has become the most popular anime fighter. I have a problem with this, because I love BB! Not because of its “anime graphics” nor its “moe factor,” but because the game has taken a daring development concept (everyone has a different drive) and made many different playstyles and strategies possible.

“So what if you have a problem, Xntrikcat, who the fuq are you, and what can you do about it,” you ask.

Well, that’s what I want to talk to you guys about. There are certainly limitations to netplay as a legitimate platform for competitive play. I have smashed many a monitor raging hard at silly things like “Lagspike into 720” “Unblockable Noel Mash” “Unblockable Overheads” “Bang’s Inescapable 5A Frame Trap” and other such shenanigans.

However!

I do believe that a healthy, mature, and competitive (as possible) online community could very well lend itself to revitalizing the now-shrunk offline scene. After playing RTS’s and MMO’s, BB was my way back into fighting games, and I don’t really care if I belong to a grand “Fighting Game Community” which lovingly harbors our little niche game. What I care about is the BB Scene, and the way I play it most of the time is online. I want to help build a community around this main frame.

Here are some problems of PSN’s netplay community as I see them:

1. Dustloop chat is dead

How do we socialize, communicate ideas, build rivalries, when there is no way for us to speak to another? Part of it is PSN’s archaic way of handling chat rooms and its lag-prone design, wherein if you press PS button, matches are likely going to get slo-mo’d

2. Lack of “Incentives”

Ranbats and Danisen Leagues haven’t been active as of late. Offline always has the monetary incentive, but online lacks any incentive (aside from PSRLOL). As a community we should encourage competitive play through events and tournaments, and create incentive to keep our love of the game going.

3. Not enough content

Goes for offline also. Ideally, there should be a concerted effort to stream/youtube/etc matchup guides, tactics summaries, and highlight commentaries. When I went to NEC’12, SKD showed me some neat safejumps and tech trap oki situations. It was cool to get a creative perspective on the details about the game. These techs (and their counters) add depth to the game, and I feel that we as a community should engage ourselves more, and share them.

4. Self-Hatred?!

BB players seem to have self-esteem issues or something. Is BB truly a stupid game? Does Mu-12 do too much damage? Is Arakune a stupid character? Is Hakumen’s drive too strong? Whichever beef it is, people tend to complain, sometimes to a fault. Strangely, there’s a sense of “Yeah, fuq BB” anti-solidarity comradery that happens occasionally. People love putting down the game they play… I’ve yet to find a reason for this, and this is something I find myself revolted by.

5. Offline vs Online (2013 edition)

I’ve never understood this divide. Offline or online, we play BB for the love of the game, yet, there seems to linger a perpetual disdain for netplay. I am in the camp of “will play offline, but lifestyle does not accommodate driving 2 ½ hours for small casuals,” so I netplay. I believe many of you on the PSN thread are in the same boat.

I used to play WoW, in which top arena players constantly put down the PvE’ing scrubs. But guess who watches all the top players' streams? It’s the casuals and the scrubs. They are the supporting base, and the longer we put off the reconciliation between “Offline gods” and the “netplay scrubs,” we won’t grow as a community.

Thanks for reading this wall of text. If I sound condescending, overly critical, or totally delusional, please read with a kinder eye as my aim is true.

I want to open up the discussion and ask everyone what we can all do. I have some events I would like to help organize, and I will update my post later on, after having read your inputs. If you are as interested as I am to help this community grow from a manageable angle (the netplay angle!), I would like to hear your thoughts.

Please remember to be considerate, on-topic, and positive. As many of you are, I am very hyped for BBCP, and I want it to be a turnaround for us all.

[xntrikcat]

< Reserved >

[Nemesis]

So is your main point to increase general netplay hype? Not to mention civil behavior and general good sportsmanship and competitions?

I guess the "easy" thing to say is : bb is in a slump right now -- itll pass as we get closer to CP (kinda true though isnt it?)

Its hard to be more of a netplay warrior than myself but it seems hard to convince the majority of haters and whiners that stopping their ridiculous behavior would be beneficial to us all... "haters gonna hate"

Anyhow about being more productive.... If I have one suggestion: I have little exp with PSN right now ... so I dont know what your scrub scene is like... but one thing I know that helps (even if they end up with their heads in their asses later..) is supporting and training new(ish?) players (relative) - Ive trained a few myself and some of them have turned out pretty impressive and skillful - not to mention still playing

in fact I may already be doing something like that again unintentionally ... but I know for a fact that there are people out there that are NOT aware of DL and could benefit from the scene and breathe alittle more life into it just by joining one at a time

--somehow -- people are still "just" buying EX -- and I remember being new... I would have loved for some more experienced guy to actually take the time to teach me some basics, instead of bodying the fuck outta me over and over

Edited January 15, 2013 by Nemesis

[mAc Chaos]

when has BB NOT been in a slump

[Nemesis]

Im pretty sure he asked us to be constructive mAc you flamming asshole (lol)

[xntrikcat]

What I had in mind (it's still formulating, and I am handicapped by my lack of experience in organizing tournaments and such) was a privately funded (i.e. by me, I can hang about $20 a week) league of ranbat series. First place wins $20 from me (via paypal transfer), and I'm willing to "hold" the winnings for the winners so they may claim them for offline ventures. Paying for venues/ transportation/ lodging, etc.

A significant challenge would be whether people would still want to play for money online, despite all the flaws that we now know and are sick of.

[Nemesis]

What I had in mind (it's still formulating, and I am handicapped by my lack of experience in organizing tournaments and such) was a privately funded (i.e. by me, I can hang about $20 a week) league of ranbat series. First place wins $20 from me (via paypal transfer), and I'm willing to "hold" the winnings for the winners so they may claim them for offline ventures. Paying for venues/ transportation/ lodging, etc.

A significant challenge would be whether people would still want to play for money online, despite all the flaws that we now know and are sick of.

Thats a serious issue right there -- as I just participated in an online tourny and lagged (lost) to stayfree whom I had never lagged against before -- not to mention the several other people who complained of the same thing-- the problem is it "seems" to be impossible to determine whats behind those problems-- and then it gets even harder as people become "invested" then become angry of what they believe they are entitled too

[xntrikcat]

Yes. And I can name about 15-20 good players that have 3+ connection with me, and they tend to live in a 500-mile radius from me. If it gets any further away I start to have 2 or 1 bar, which would limit the player pool of the league, as each player would need to have similar connectivity experience w/ me.

This tourney idea is still brewing.

What does PSN think about a Ventrilo server where BB netplayers could all hang out? Investing in one is pretty cheap, and I'm sure it causes less lag than microphone on PSN. Does Skype offer channels/ separate rooms like Ventrilo does?

[Koori]

youve got support from me (random bb player #451) because i would like to see some more love for BB, i ve been lurking far too much and ive seen the self-hate some of DL has against the game, but in personal i like it and wouldnt like the scene (offline and online) to die out

[mAc Chaos]

Im pretty sure he asked us to be constructive mAc you flamming asshole (lol)

ill pitch in if i can think of something

netplay tourney attendance is even spottier than IRL tourney attendance since it's way easier to bail on than something you're going to travel for

can't really do anything about lag

attitude of the community is probably the biggest thing but it's weird that it's only blazblue that has this problem

[Nemesis]

That made me laugh .... Attitude wise this really perplexes me .... but leonil and I have been discussing things -- I think it has alot to do with ppl being so "passionate" about the game or their attachments to it (like me for example : I play mu who reminds me of my wife ... when I lose in games I play using her I react like this : http://youtu.be/V46KYxFav24?t=18m26s)

Though I rarely share the hate with anyone lol -- I think many ppl do relieve themselves in many colorful ways

What does PSN think about a Ventrilo server where BB netplayers could all hang out? Investing in one is pretty cheap, and I'm sure it causes less lag than microphone on PSN. Does Skype offer channels/ separate rooms like Ventrilo does?

Vent ... dont you need a comp for that? ( i really dont know ) skype is a TERRIBLY BAD IDEA -- never use skype or leave it on while your playing online

Edited January 15, 2013 by Nemesis

[Mucky]

attitude of the community is probably the biggest thing but it's weird that it's only blazblue that has this problem

is it really? I don't know about other FG communities, but attitude is such a broad subject that it's hard for me to believe it's unique to one community

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I'm honestly rather tired of reading stuff like this. Yes I love to netplay. I get salty about lag occasionally like anyone else but occasionally get over it. I do my best to be supportive of newbies. I don't kick newbies unless the room is set up for "Experts" but frankly, my patience wears thin at times.

Fighting someone who doesn't have foggiest clue what they're doing isn't even enjoyable. It's like they didn't even bother to try Training Mode before going online, getting destroyed by me, telling me I'm amazing and sending me friend requests I feel would be too heartless to refuse.

I have to go back to work now, I'll rant more later.

[xntrikcat]

Vent ... dont you need a comp for that? ( i really dont know ) skype is a TERRIBLY BAD IDEA -- never use skype or leave it on while your playing online

I see. I'm not much of a skype user (only use to call people oversees). Ventrilo does require PC, but I think there are now android/iOS apps for them also, so you could use your phone. Usually push-to-talk, with configurable channels/rooms. I just hate PSN chatrooms, and hate people who use mics in lobbies even more. PC gamers tend to use it all the time, and a lot of the times just to shoot the shit, even.

Edited January 15, 2013 by xntrikcat

[Narroo]

So is your main point to increase general netplay hype? Not to mention civil behavior and general good sportsmanship and competitions?

I guess the "easy" thing to say is : bb is in a slump right now -- itll pass as we get closer to CP (kinda true though isnt it?)

Its hard to be more of a netplay warrior than myself but it seems hard to convince the majority of haters and whiners that stopping their ridiculous behavior would be beneficial to us all... "haters gonna hate"

Anyhow about being more productive.... If I have one suggestion: I have little exp with PSN right now ... so I dont know what your scrub scene is like... but one thing I know that helps (even if they end up with their heads in their asses later..) is supporting and training new(ish?) players (relative) - Ive trained a few myself and some of them have turned out pretty impressive and skillful - not to mention still playing

in fact I may already be doing something like that again unintentionally ... but I know for a fact that there are people out there that are NOT aware of DL and could benefit from the scene and breathe alittle more life into it just by joining one at a time

--somehow -- people are still "just" buying EX -- and I remember being new... I would have loved for some more experienced guy to actually take the time to teach me some basics, instead of bodying the fuck outta me over and over

Got it around thanksgiving since it was only $17. I'm cheap. That said, despite being cheap I went ahead and got Persona 4 and Skullgirls for cheapish around Christmas. I need to stop doing that...that's bad. Hm, a tutor would be a cool idea.

[Nemesis]

I see. I'm not much of a skype user (only use to call people oversees). Ventrilo does require PC, but I think there are now android/iOS apps for them also, so you could use your phone also. Usually push-to-talk, with configurable channels/rooms. I just hate PSN chatrooms, and hate people who use mics in lobbies even more. PC gamers tend to use it all the time, and a lot of the times just to shoot the shit, even.

I dont mic in lobbies much myself - and assuming ppl can use vent on an iphone/touch/android/ w/e is kinda a bad idea due to the fact that maybe ppl dun have them =/

I cant relate to the crappyness of PSN chat rooms since the XBL ones are pretty good (until they blow up) but Ive heard ppl say similar things as you have - solving the communication issue may not be possible because of the platform weaknesses -- (strictly casual setting speaking) Like Iora had everyone log into his IRC(?) channel for his recent tournament and it was fun to chat with ppl and be greeted by the scene (even by ppl I thought disliked me) which turned my perceptions around abit.

Now everyone didnt stay in there the entire time but there was plenty of fun to be had - so something like that might be similar (its easier to txt on the IRC than with your arcade stick over PSN or maybe even the pad) -- again this is assuming ppl have access to a device of some sort (comp - phone) and Im pretty sure it uses minimal network resources

[BlackYakuzu94]

Look, I'd love to start some revolution too, but I've only had the game for little less than a year, and I still make lots of fuckups, and I know people can be cool, but others aren't.

[xntrikcat]

Please refrain yourselves from posting if you have no substance in your thought. I know it's a lot to ask, but when someone with a moderator star is posting a one liner, I need to make a request here. If any mods are reading, kindly delete posts #18 and #19, I would like to keep this thread constructive if possible.

Back on topic - so far our ideas have been

1. Tutors

I like this idea, I'm always willing to help someone learn, except I can't really teach characters other than Mu, and I can't teach players who have a bad connection with me. I can speak from having TD as a role model/ sensei that it has helped me learn a lot. Maybe I'll take applications for some tutelage! Learn from the top 10 Mu of AMERICA (since there are like 10 of us I think this is a pretty safe claim)

Though this could be great, I do want to focus on competitive play online. Which brings us to

2. Ranbat series w/ Monetary prizes

Certainly doable, and though meager, a small amount of cash might help with the attendance problem. I also want to make sure people generally agree on the inevitable shittiness of online play, where lag can strike any time, anywhere. And if I'm the one sponsoring it, no one is really "losing money." If I do organize this, it'll have to be limited to EST-Northeast, though, but other regions can maybe follow suit.

3. Ventrilo

Skype is a no-go. Maybe I should check out the dustloop IRC channel, but how active is it? Would people USE Vent for the purpose of arranging matches/ hanging out?

4. Attitude

My take is that it's not a problem unique to BB, but we certainly suffer a lot for it. I think BB's general inability to attract other FG players is due to the negative attitude. In my opinion though, this is not a huge issue, and one I'm sure will alleviate with BBCP's release. I'm well aware haters will be haters. I'm interested in finding other likeminded, non-haters to join me.

Edited January 15, 2013 by xntrikcat

[Star-Demon]

I don't know what this thread is supposed to accomplish...

If you want more people to netplay you have to have a lot of people want to play A LOT. Good luck - I have no answers to that one.

I've used vent for 10 years. I think a vent channel would be nice. I would use a DL vent. I think vent is a great way to forge stronger communities, and it works.

[KayEff]

a lot of people are already using skype, so vent's not really needed

[Tecta1Eastside]

I think Ranbats are a great idea. They can help keep the game alive on netplay and even draw out new players. One idea I would like to do is have someone commentate about the match when its streamed. The person commentating can talk about the match-up and give suggestions so ppl are not only just playing in the ranbat but also learning from it to improve their gameplay. Banana Ken started something similar for Persona 4 Arena with his FT10 thing where he plays and critques the player that he blows up.

New players and even veterans could post some matches maybe once or twice a month with them playing ppl to improve their skill by having ppl critque matches more often. It could help them place higher in a offline tourney or whatever.

I had something interesting in mind but I need to seriously upgrade my recording software to do effectively

[Dreiko]

As far as the mics go, I don't own one and I find talking as something distracting during a match. Furthermore, having been in a number of rooms where other people used mics, nothing of value or meaning was being said during the majority of those times. If anything, there has been more instances where I've been witness to misinformation so gruesome that I had to PM a stranger to correct his facts compared to the instances where there was something actually correct and useful being talked about. Mics are cool if you have buddies to play online with but, well, I prefer to play offline with my buddies and in any case, buddies chatting about their classes or what they'll have for lunch doesn't help BB become more widespread online.

Skype is indeed useful. Someone said that it lags you up or something...I have not witnessed any effect stemming from it. Maybe if you do like a video chat or something where it has to stream but mere text has no noticeable effect on delay.

Reading the OP, I don't think there's any issue of people thinking BB is a stupid game or any sort of self-hatred, there's just lots of people who sadly don't pick it as their best game because it's about the newest IP out there. Even though persona is technically newer as a fighter, the actual franchise started in 1996. The rest of the stuff on Evo are like tekken and SF and KoF, series which have been out for ages and have amassed a huge fanbase. It's kinda natural for BB to not be quite as popular as those games in the grand scheme of things.

Lastly, for something productive to add, about all I can think of is we should hype the fuck out of CP. We should make tons of stuff to grab people's attention over and to rekindle the flame of the ones who ended up dropping BB but might wanna reenter it, that's our big and possibly only chance to really do a number on the popularity of BB for the next few years I think.

[Daisy-Fan]

Am still pretty new to BlazBlue and yet i learning slow but keep work on it, Sure i get 1-30 or 2-31 if am lucky working to understood the matchup or the other player, I find netplay on Both 360 and PS3 are indeed pretty cool, About the attitude am honest with this, then it come to say i own or get own i will totally see it by my view, no body in this game are bad in general i can tell this. I just GG was fun for sure by most of my post then it come to the PSN Board side, i find everyone pretty cool, so i could worries about the attitude a bit. Also the idea Vent i really like it, but to be honest Skype could it be better, it someone over here is up to make a PS3 and 360 group for skype, it could be indeed very good!

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I wrote guides, and I still plan on writing guides for CP. In fact I am hoping to make my own website dedicated to my BB guides. I answer lots of questions I get from people on YouTube as well, mainly regarding Hazama stuff. My point is that I do care, and I do want newbies to become competent but there's a limit to what I can do. And a limit to my patience (especially when I get people who can't write properly)

Ranbats would be great fun for me if they were ever hosted on a day I could join in.

Honestly the only prevailing problem I see with netplay right now is that CSE was a terrible idea. CSE should have been CP instead. I tried defending it but I can't even convince myself that CSE's existence is justified.

I have 3 mics and I have no desire to use them with anyone besides online friends (sorry match finder thread, you don't qualify)

[xntrikcat]

I don't know what this thread is supposed to accomplish...

I don't know what I'm trying to accomplish here either, but I'm just foolish enough to believe that people might have some good ideas, and I'm willing to put some work on my end.

I think Ranbats are a great idea. They can help keep the game alive on netplay and even draw out new players. One idea I would like to do is have someone commentate about the match when its streamed. The person commentating can talk about the match-up and give suggestions so ppl are not only just playing in the ranbat but also learning from it to improve their gameplay. Banana Ken started something similar for Persona 4 Arena with his FT10 thing where he plays and critques the player that he blows up.

New players and even veterans could post some matches maybe once or twice a month with them playing ppl to improve their skill by having ppl critque matches more often. It could help them place higher in a offline tourney or whatever.

Yes! I do like commentaries. They bridge the gap between the players and the viewers effectively. Look at Starcraft, LoL, and any respected E-sports and the viewership that replays/commentaries generate. Offline it's being done already, but maybe we netplayers can work toward putting out more content. I know I'll be investing in a recording equipment pretty soon.

Lastly, for something productive to add, about all I can think of is we should hype the fuck out of CP. We should make tons of stuff to grab people's attention over and to rekindle the flame of the ones who ended up dropping BB but might wanna reenter it, that's our big and possibly only chance to really do a number on the popularity of BB for the next few years I think.

Absolutely! I think we'll get some spillover from the P4 crowd, I'm sure the faster gameplay will resonate with many. Of course I think we should hype up CP also, perhaps the same way our top players endorsed P4 before release. It all comes back to generating content, and I guess the question is "how" and "who."