[CP] Hazama Gameplay Discussion [New members read first post]

[Ajantas]

Using the dash during the stance will automatically make his follow-ups lvl 2, so if you do it as fast as possible, it's a faster way to get lvl 2 follow-ups than just standing still for 51 frames.

I apologize if there's some misinformation in what I just said; I don't actually have the game yet. But while playing with friends over the past few days, the only way I could get a lvl 2 Gashou after Houtenjin was to dash after the stance.

I feel like that too, though what AMB said also works, if you wait it out the lvl 2 will come out. But you can also activate it by doing a dash during your stance, so for instance if you try and do a Houtenjin follow-up like in Extend Dash>214D>wait>C the Zaneiga doesn't come out as lvl 2. If you perform a stance and perform a dash the Zaneiga will come out as lvl 2 . The thing now is that the Zaneiga feels like it has more forward momentum when you use it so I have to start thinking about that when doing it after a dash. Also canceling a dash early doesn't give you the full charge.

[Putin]

Yeah, new Zaneiga is weird. Houtenjin > dash 214D~C doesn't come out as lvl 2, and Houtenjin > 214D~66C sometimes drops because Hazama gets behind them with the command dash.

I don't feel bad for choosing Gasshou over Zaneiga midscreen anymore D:

[NoSales]

What you are saying is pretty much right.

~66 (full length) is pretty much a faster "stand still and charge".

I'm not 100% sure if it is indeed a couple frame faster or not, but the mook says ~66 is 35F long and you always get lv.2 follow ups after a full dash so I just assume that it is faster (stand ~C lv2 is a 51F charge).

Doing ~66 also boosts Orochi/632146D damage by ~400 or so

As for 214D~66C after hountejin: cancel into ~66 just before they start falling and ~C after they appear from the top of the screen, it's really not that hard after you play around with it for a bit.

Maybe I should have clarified. I'm talking about when you do combos like X > 3C > 214D~66B, where you do a quick stance dash that still (appears) as a level 1. The damage with a quick stance dash Gashyoukyaku does a bit more damage than a regular 214D~B.

[_Sey]

Maybe I should have clarified. I'm talking about when you do combos like X > 3C > 214D~66B, where you do a quick stance dash that still (appears) as a level 1. The damage with a quick stance dash Gashyoukyaku does a bit more damage than a regular 214D~B.

err, yeah thats true as well.

I guess there's something like "level 1.5" or maybe even the fastest ~66B adds ~B(2) double hit? I never really paid attention to that, there's no point in not doing ~66B anyway

[NoSales]

Yeah, it's not really important, but it's just something I noticed.

Either way, I was testing it and adding a dash to the gashoukykyaku adds damage to both levels. A raw lvl 1 does 700, dash lvl 1 does 840, lvl 2 does 1129, and a dash lvl 2 does 1354.

Also, it seems the bonus stance dash damage is only applied to gashou and none of the others. not like anyone really cares about this stuff, but w/e

Btw, when are we gonna get new matchup threads?

Edited October 28, 2013 by NoSales

[SwordsNStuff]

so i finally got the game and i spent some time in training with hazama. i managed to get his j.C loops down, which version do you guys find easier to do consistently? i read on here that you can do j.Cx4, land> 5C but i could never get it to work. i find that j.C-2x2 > 5C is easier to pull off.

question about the rising fang combo path...maybe i'm inputting things too slow because im on the god awful ps3 controllers but what is the timing on that kinda strict? i noticed that the only time i could link the 5A after rising fang was when i used the LV2 version or when i was pretty close to the corner.

houtenjin follow-ups: instead of dashing first like previous versions, we do the stance first then dash. so far i've only used the zaneiga follow-up and sometimes i noticed i would be in front of the falling opponent. even tho the move would connect, it was just awkward waiting for them to become lower. so can anyone explain to me how the houtenjin stance dash follow-ups should be done?

can someone shed some light on these for me? thanks!

[AMB Bakery]

Btw, when are we gonna get new matchup threads?

I've been in San Antonio grinding CP for the past few days. I'll make the threads when I get back to Austin later this evening or early tomorrow. I wanted to have an organized format for the first post that allows for the inclusion of information as time passes and more matchup experience and knowledge is gathered. I already have an idea of what this is going to look like, but if any of you have suggestions, feel free to let me or Lich know!

[_Sey]

jC loops timing depends on what you what to accomplish, starter, position on the screen.

jC x4 is done to keep your opponent low to the ground after a non-super jump scenario, going 2x2 seems to be the best way

there are two major variant to (s)jC5: x2-x3 or x3~x2 (kinda, sometimes it feels like x4~x1)

you use x2-x3 to keep them up the ground while descending before them, this is useful for doing stuff like

214D~C > dash 6C > dash 5C > 2C > jC5 > dash 5C > 2D xx 214D~66B(2) > 623D > 5C > 2C > tk j214B

DMG: ~4200 HG: 30

x3-x2 is the one you usually do after 4D xx 214D~66B dash 5C ... or after risin jA stuff etc.

when you read jC4/jC5 its just to refer to the total amount of hits, not the timing involved, rule of thumb is: do jC twice early to keep 2P above you, otherwise it'll be falling with you

Is anyone working on combo optimization/oki stuff?

I still need to check a few corner routes and then work on OD stuff otherwise I think I have found most optimal punish and stuff.

As far as oki goes what I've figured out is that his oki is overall pretty bad now but you can prevent your opponent from rolling out of your setups by ending your aerial ender with njC5 j214B.

If done right you should often be able to be at a distance where you can immediately go 2B (whiff) 5B, what this does is limit possible forward rolls (by auto-hitconfirming 2B 5B) or get a meaty (although far) 5B.

Otherwise you can go for 2A 5B, which does have some application (its usually better if you are closer to the opponent that the "optimal" spacing) but the damage you get off a punished roll is pretty bad.

If you end up really close to an opponent you can also do 214D~ if timed right if they try to roll forward you you'll have them block 236D (which is nothing to get hype for but it still setup an advantageous situation for Hazama) or if they respect you/backward roll/backdash you get to mix up ~A/C or dash ~A/C etc.

So unlike CSEX where we could setup safejumps and a bunch of OS' we are pretty much left to just "intimidating" the opponent as far as oki goes (which is actually not too bad as we get retarded dmg off any hits and comboable 214D~A)

I understand Terumi is hype but I'd really like to read more than "halp how do i combo" :<

Edited October 29, 2013 by _Sey

[Putin]

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much about Hazama in this iteration to talk about.

Combos are... combos, and as you pointed out he doesn't seem to have any okizeme options other than 2A after Hiren.

Then there's corner Jakou > Zaneiga ender setup which is strong and we already know how it works, and low j.C "drop" ender which is unexplored due to people still learning the timings for the new j.C. It's also very rarely used by japs so yeah.

[Myoro]

This is a video of everyone's distortions in English dub.

Hazama actually yells out SUPER SNAKE KICK when using hotenjin...

We need to make formal changes to the wiki. Super Snake Kick must be the new official name for this move.

Onto a more serious topic. Now that Jakou slides midscreen there is really no use for 236236-6B is there? other than the obvious increase in range. I've noticed that SSK no longer fatal counters, but I haven't really felt much has changed due to that. was anything possible before only because of the FC that is now not?

[AMB Bakery]

Long combos and weird links won't be possible anymore due to no FC, but having a better p1 (though it has an untechable time penalty built in just like throws and A normals [besides 6A] have) means that you can actually get damage if you land raw Houtenjin.

Also, as much as you think it's cute, try to avoid using SSK as notation for Houtenjin. 236236B should be fine or 'kick super' colloquially is also fine. In the future, if you post 'SSK,' people are probably not going to know what you're talking about on sight. Hell, even for the official names, I doubt people would be able to tell immediately if someone listed 'JH/SIR' in their notation.

[Myoro]

Long combos and weird links won't be possible anymore due to no FC, but having a better p1 (though it has an untechable time penalty built in just like throws and A normals [besides 6A] have) means that you can actually get damage if you land raw Houtenjin.

Also, as much as you think it's cute, try to avoid using SSK as notation for Houtenjin. 236236B should be fine or 'kick super' colloquially is also fine. In the future, if you post 'SSK,' people are probably not going to know what you're talking about on sight. Hell, even for the official names, I doubt people would be able to tell immediately if someone listed 'JH/SIR' in their notation.

The "SSK" was only for the one post I assure you. Still, I'd take Damage over FC any day. what even was the point of a FC if you can't get damage from? (other than doing fancy tricks to impress yer friends.) Doesn't matter now I guess.

So after some testing Dash Houtenjin is still useful when you do Jakou near the corner and you just barely can't reach with a normal one. Also can be used in (214d~C->6C->5C->2C->6D~A->2362366B) and (CH214~B->6D~A->2362366B) although I don't really see those being very useful.

[Justice7541]

So I was messing around on netplay and realized that 5c pickup to j.C loop doesn't work on some characters. Dropping 6c hurts and so does having to add in 2b. How does this 5c 2c sj.C combo work in terms of timing? Seems a bit awkward.

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[AppleCoRe]

question about the rising fang combo path...maybe i'm inputting things too slow because im on the god awful ps3 controllers but what is the timing on that kinda strict? i noticed that the only time i could link the 5A after rising fang was when i used the LV2 version or when i was pretty close to the corner.

can someone shed some light on these for me? thanks!

This is where I've hit a wall, as well. I can't seem to get that 5A to come out fast enough for the life of me after Rising Fang-->Forward Dash before the opponent can tech.

[AMB Bakery]

This is where I've hit a wall, as well. I can't seem to get that 5A to come out fast enough for the life of me after Rising Fang-->Forward Dash before the opponent can tech.

やはり来たか。。。過去の気配を無視したばっかり、だが現象が本当にもう一度現れましたなぁ。。。しょうがないね、奴らが。良いか？これから教育だ。忍耐が持ってないならば今すぐ出て行け。

WELP. That time has come once again it seems.... a new game comes out, a new combo that everyone can't do and will ask questions about until I (or somebody) make a guide about it. Give me a week or two, I'll find out what problems people are having and what cues and timing hints I can point out to make it easier. Though honestly, I'd almost rather not waste space on another thread and instead see if I can integrate it into the combo thread somehow...

Does anyone else think it's funny that they give a damage boost to 214D~B (level 1) if you do forward Jakatsu and at the same time give a damage penalty if you do it during backwards Jakatsu?

[NoSales]

I find it funnier it only applies to Gashoukyaku and nothing else.

[Putin]

Hazama is stupid.

j.AA > j.B > dj.C5 > 5C > sj.C5 > 5C > 2C > sj.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren. 2165 dmg, 13 meter, fullscreen carry.

Pachi pls

edit: It's probably better to replace j.B with jC1 since it has better vertical hitbox, j.B will whiff if they're too high. Also does a little more damage

Edited October 31, 2013 by Putin

[Ctrlaltwtf]

You can only do the 5A followup to Gashou if you confirm the combo up-close, at least that's my experience with it.

For instance this will fail:

5B 5C 3C Gashou xx dash 5A

It fails because the 5C (or any other secondary hit) will push you too far away. You have to immediately confirm into 3C.

This works, but not at long range. Best chance of working is on a dash-in

5B 3C Gashou xx dash 5A

Course I'm hardly an expert on it yet. I still fail it more often than succeeding. Any insight would be welcome.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf

[Putin]

5B > 5C > 3C > Jak.Gasshou > 66 5A works lol, you just gotta be in their face.

Also does like 3.9k if you opt for the 6C route, CP Haz is crazy. From the same starter you get a little over 4k in the corner

[Scratch]

For the 66 5A timing, first go do gashou and see Haz hind legs (if you're on 1P side, its his left leg) and watch how the leg gonna be 'restore' back to neutral (make sure you hide Input Display or else you can't see the leg). After you get used to it, try 66 5A on neutral and get used to it. If the 66 6A comes out then you need to input it a biiiit slower the 5A.

Then try do 3C>66 Gashou>66 5A. If the dashing overhead comes out, then that means you need to input slower but its a step in the right direction IMO.

I don't master it yet but this is the easiest way for me to do it. I'm sure other people will have other tips to do it consistently. If you can do Hiren loops in Extend, then this part isn't that hard (and I suck at Hiren loops lol)

[Mo the Hawk]

This probably sounds silly, but the most difficult thing I'm trying to get over is mixing up 2C with 3C. That is, when I want to do 2C, I end up doing 3C instead, and vice versa. Sucks screwing up your anti-air and getting CH, or dropping an essential part of a combo. It makes me wonder if I should switch back to my octo-gate...

That and the fact that you need to be buffering microdashes like a fiend pretty much all the time - during pressure, during combos, etc. Need to build up my left hand's dexterity.

[_Sey]

632146DD is a shortcut for 214D~632146D

[Justice7541]

You need to do 214d 66b as fast as the game will let you so it hits. Then 5a is a 1-2 link which is easy enough cause if the buffer. If you are too far out you need to microdash but that makes it exponentially harder. It'll pretty much only work without dash off point-blank 5b 3c, close raw 3c, or 236c.

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[Sadeyo]

I'm still mashing with Hazama here so forgive me for not visiting as often. You guys are after all falling apart every time I come back, trolling aside lets get down to business.

I believe I'm pretty competitive Hazama player and would like to share the videos to prove so but before that I'm actually questioned on my approach since I still treat Hazama like Extend. Still pretty effective even if the push back is a little further than normal. I have yet to master the dash 5A after a successful back throw or 5B 3C 214B xn.

Here's a mid-screen BnB I tend to do and I happen to land it at least 95% of the time. Tell me what I can change to net more damage.

5B 5C 3C 236236B 214D~C (66 lv.2) 6C 66 5C 2C 6D 4D j8D 623D RC (neutral jump) j6D~D 5C 2C 4D-D <--SMP 214B (4.5k I think)

[Xander ツ]

I'm still mashing with Hazama here so forgive me for not visiting as often. You guys are after all falling apart every time I come back, trolling aside lets get down to business.

I believe I'm pretty competitive Hazama player and would like to share the videos to prove so but before that I'm actually questioned on my approach since I still treat Hazama like Extend. Still pretty effective even if the push back is a little further than normal. I have yet to master the dash 5A after a successful back throw or 5B 3C 214B xn.

Here's a mid-screen BnB I tend to do and I happen to land it at least 95% of the time. Tell me what I can change to net more damage.

5B 5C 3C 236236B 214D~C (66 lv.2) 6C 66 5C 2C 6D 4D j8D 623D RC (neutral jump) j6D~D 5C 2C 4D-D <--SMP 214B (4.5k I think)

Not trying to be a dick or anything, but you can net more damage without the use of RC. It's seriously a waste of meter.

I can see you're not used to the jcx4 yet.

4.5k is just really bad damage especially with 100 meter.