A beginner needing assistance

[lowhunter]

Hey,

Although I've been here a while, but I never ventured into online play (just the story mode :3 ) so I got totally bodied today in online play as I'm still a beginner. I'm having difficulties in combos, footsies and pressure play. I was wondering if getting to "pro" games wold benefit me anything or is it just wiser to stick with complete beginners before advancing to higher level games. (I play in EU so there aren't many beginners there).

Thanks in advance ^^

Regards,

VerdantShadow

P.S. I've been putting many hours on training mode, there I can do all the BnB combos, but in real matches I usually panick and don't know what am I doing anymore. Good tips would be good too :p

Edited May 13, 2013 by lowhunter

[Dark Ranger88]

Opinions will differ, but I say you should start by facing people near your level or at least average at the game. If you play nothing but the best the game will become extremely frustrating, and you won't see any solid progress (ie. wins) for a long time. Playing people lower on the totem pole, still lets you get accustomed to important facets of the game like neutral, pressure, and hit confiming while giving you little ego boosts along the way. If you start out against someone who is good and smothering, you will rarely get a chance to pressure him or mix him up. And usually when you do you will screw up an input or drop a combo, which leads to you eating countless amounts of damage.

By your avi I'll guess you use Hakumen. You should try playing against other Haku's and see what they do. Steal their tricks and blockstrings. As far as pressure goes...Haku's sucks unless you have some Magatama to burn. His combos are also weird, but if you play against real people they will soon become second nature.

[zeth07]

-Watch a TON of match videos. Try to understand why the players are doing what they are doing in any given situation, then use that information when you play. If you don't understand, then you obviously need to figure out why that is whether in training mode yourself or asking someone.

-You can never get enough training mode. To help a little more, put the computer on Lv.100, and put all your settings as if it was a "real match". This way you can practice things like combos / hitconfirming / pressure / footsies / okizeme in semi-realistic situations with no stopping (just press Select before you or the computer are about to die).

Do not take this as match-up experience, think of it more like practice for what you've learned so far. Things won't necessarily work the same against a human opponent but certain aspects of it can transfer over. In my opinion this is better than playing someone hugely better than you. If you can't consistently beat the computer in this situation you probably need to work on some things.

-As mentioned, I would advise playing players within your skill level whenever possible. The gap in skill level should not be too great in either direction because then you probably aren't learning anything or it will just be too hard to actually take anything away from the match.

-If you can record matches, record them and let other players who play your character critique you. Or just play people who are willing to give you advise after the fact.

Edited May 13, 2013 by zeth07
typo

[excelence]

-You can never get enough training mode. To help a little more, put the computer on Lv.100, and put all your settings as if it was a "real match". This way you can practice things like combos / hitconfirming / pressure / footsies / okizeme in semi-realistic situations with no stopping (just press Select before you or the computer are about to die).

Dunno how advanced the ai in BB.. but the last time i'm seriously playing lv max ai is 5~6 years ago at Guilty Gear and actually it makes me do bad habit to exploit ai flaw that obviously didn't work on real match against person... If u're beginner and want to getting familiar with the game, i'll suggest the default setting of the ai. Where they aren't too aggressive, DP ing every of your mix up (this makes me think mix up = bad when i'm still beginner) and often stuttering / doing beginner mistake.

Playing against people person who is on your skill level is obviously the best advice to get u used to the game fast. but to get better faster, playing the best people u can find definitely the best way to practice. at 1st just focus on Defense and try to survive as long as you can, then move on into hit confirming your BnB then try to win.

And recording your match for review also help A LOT.

[Celerity]

Yeah. Whenever I want to practice my confirms or play through story mode or whatever, I usually set the AI around 60/Hard. The Hell AI reads your inputs basically every time, so you're not even playing a real game anymore. It's better practice to stomp a medium AI with your normal gameplan than play against the Hell AI and need to adjust/exploit certain strategies to win.

[Dark Ranger88]

If pressure is one of your weaknesses, then you might want to go into training mode and come up with some ways to reset pressure on an opponent. The main three ways this happens are:

1.) Attacking after moves that are plus on block - Look at frame data on the dustloop wiki and find moves that have positive frame advantage. If these moves leave you right in front of your opponent you can simply attack againg to resume pressure. If you are a bit away you have to dash > jab though (not possible with Hakumen)

2.) Attacking after moves that are slightly negative on block - If you are unpredictable and your opponent respects you, you can also reset off of moves that are slightly negative on block by doing a dash > jab. I have found that moves anywhere from -0 to -3 usually work pretty well. (But some people even let me reset after Mars Chopper, which is -5. Inorite)

3.) Moves that are jump cancellable - You can usually jump and attack after a move to stay in on your opponent. It serves as a high and you can usually do whatever you want after they block the jumping attack.

Bonus - You can also rapid cancel any attack and resume pressure. If you do it after a move your opponent knows is unsafe they'll usually try to attack like morons and get counter hit.

Oh and you want to have more than one way to reset pressure...

Edited May 14, 2013 by Dark Ranger88

[lowhunter]

Hey,

Thank you all for the fast replies and great tips! (I changed my misleading picture by the way :3 ) I'll try to record my matches and post them here, when I'm playing next time.

Thanks again!

Regards,

VerdantShadow

Edited May 14, 2013 by lowhunter

[Airk]

Woo, Tsubaki player. :P

The good news is that Tsubaki has lots of ways to reset pressure.

The bad news is that most of them aren't very good. :P

Tsubaki can cancel many of her normals into her charge animation, which allows her to make 5B, 5BB, and 5C only slightly negative (all -2) and 5CC actually even (0). So if the opponent isn't expecting you to reset pressure at that point, you can get away with a charge cancel -> dash -> jab. If they are expecting it, they can usually jab you out.

Tsubaki can gatling into 6B after 5B, 5BB, 5C, 5CC (and also 5A and 2A, but meh). 6B is +1 which makes it a better place to reset pressure from than a charge cancel, but it also makes the fact that you're resetting pressure more obvious, so people can DP you there if you are predictable. Also, 6B is a bit slow to start up, so opponents can backdash or DP it if they predict when you're going to do it.

Tsubaki can jump cancel her 5B on block.

Tsubaki's 2B is only -1, so you can reset pressure after that if people aren't expecting it. Same caveats as charge cancelling.

Tsubaki can gatling into 6C after 5B, 5BB, and 5C. 6C is jump cancellable, but it's super slow (you can be jabbed out) and the ONLY option you really have after 6C is to jump cancel (though there's some fancy nonsense you can do to make it sortof special cancellable, but it's tricky and Tsubaki's specials are generally unsafe as part of pressure anyway.).

So basically you have multiple ways to reset pressure after 5B, 5BB, 5C and 5CC, and "one" way to do it after 2B. So if you mix it up a LOT, people can find it hard to read.

[lowhunter]

Hey,

Thanks for the reply and great tips! I've haven't mixed up my pressure so it's pretty predictable :p I'll have to practice that more. But now I have a new question :3 I find myself battling on the ground most of the time, but is it wise to get in with j.CC or is it too risky? I'm having trouble getting into a fight too, should I just dash in or should I wair for them to approach me? (Or is it situational).

One extra question about corner pressuring. When someone techs from the corner, I usually start jabbing them with 5A/2A, but they can easily just dash backwards and then counter me. Should I pause for a split second before starting to pressure? (This question may be pretty obvious, but just want to make sure).

I'll add one more question about attacking. When I get a hitconfirm, my reflexes are too slow to continue comboing. How do you guys know when are you getting a hitconfirm? If I get a hitconfirm with 5B, I'm too slow to tap 5B another time, so they can just neutral block it. 6A I can still manage, but quick attacks like 5A/2A, 5B and 5C are a problem. (Which is also one of the reasons I can't effectively pressure).

Thanks in advance ^^

I may have worded some questions oddly, please bear with it as I'm not a native English speaker

Regards,

VerdantShadow

Edited May 14, 2013 by lowhunter

[zeth07]

Hey,

Thanks for the reply and great tips! I've haven't mixed up my pressure so it's pretty predictable :p I'll have to practice that more. But now I have a new question :3 I find myself battling on the ground most of the time, but is it wise to get in with j.CC or is it too risky? I'm having trouble getting into a fight too, should I just dash in or should I wair for them to approach me? (Or is it situational).

One extra question about corner pressuring. When someone techs from the corner, I usually start jabbing them with 5A/2A, but they can easily just dash backwards and then counter me. Should I pause for a split second before starting to pressure? (This question may be pretty obvious, but just want to make sure).

I'll add one more question about attacking. When I get a hitconfirm, my reflexes are too slow to continue comboing. How do you guys know when are you getting a hitconfirm? If I get a hitconfirm with 5B, I'm too slow to tap 5B another time, so they can just neutral block it. 6A I can still manage, but quick attacks like 5A/2A, 5B and 5C are a problem. (Which is also one of the reasons I can't effectively pressure).

Thanks in advance ^^

I may have worded some questions oddly, please bear with it as I'm not a native English speaker

Regards,

VerdantShadow

90% of the time you will be throwing out at least two attacks in a string no matter what. Some attacks are too fast for you to realistically be able to hitconfirm off them alone. So for example, you would just do 5A>5BB then hitconfirm from there (or 5BB>X then hitconfirm or not off the X, I don't know Tsubaki's strings). Which is why you have "pressure strings", which is usually 2 to 3 attacks that you will throw out for pressure and hitconfirm off them or go into another string/mixup.

You can look at the revolver action table to help you out with these things unless the Tsubaki forums have pressure listed as well. Then you'll notice that some things will gatling yet they won't actually combo, this would be an example of something you can't really hitconfirm just off of the initial attack alone, you are committed to the 2nd attack (in most cases). This could be an example of a frame trap, which means you could technically wait and see if it is a counter hit (but more than likely lose your pressure if it isn't) OR you would also do the next attack as well and hitconfirm the difference from there or continue your pressure if blocked.

The problem is you don't want to "autopilot" the same strings or your pressure as if you were hitting the combo. That's why you have to hitconfirm properly within as few attacks as feasible possible.

So doing something like 5A>2A>5B would be a pressure string that you can hitconfirm properly. The 5A and 2A are what you are visually seeing hit or not, and by the time you're pressing 5B you should be able to recognize it and hitconfirm your combo or go into different pressure. But you need multiple strings/mixups to go along with it not just that one.

[iora]

guy above me explained better, go with that!

Well hitconfirming doesn't need to be on 1 hit. Let's take your 5b example (with a shitty and probably not worth doing example... but i dont know tsubaki so well so just follow the purpose behind it)

If you decide to do 5b, then the 2nd 5b, then 5c... thats 3 hits. Thats enough time to see if your hitting, at which point you can do 214d if you see it hitting... or the 2nd 5c into 22x if they are blocking. You dont need to be slow at the start, just try to have enough hits from when you first make contact to see whats going on.

TL:DR - Basic idea behind hit confirming.

I made contact! Let's do a few moves that can lead into a combo OR something thats safe on block until i can confirm if i am hitting them or if they are blocking... then when i realize it, change my combo/blockstring to reflect what is happening.

Make sense a little?

Edited May 14, 2013 by iora

[Airk]

Hey,

Thanks for the reply and great tips! I've haven't mixed up my pressure so it's pretty predictable :p I'll have to practice that more. But now I have a new question :3 I find myself battling on the ground most of the time, but is it wise to get in with j.CC or is it too risky? I'm having trouble getting into a fight too, should I just dash in or should I wair for them to approach me? (Or is it situational).

Much like pressure, approach is all about varying your methods. It's entirely legit to just run in and push 5B/5A. You'd be amazed at how often it works. But you don't want to do it all the time. If your opponent likes to DP when you run in, you might run in and barrier guard (cancels the dash recovery. Dunno why they decided to make it complicated like that.). If your opponent is bad at anti-airing, or you think they're not expecting a jump, j.C© is good, but if your opponent is on point, they may anti-air you... but then you might try a double-jump fakeout to bait the anti air (Jump towards them, then as you're about to get into 'hitting range' tap up on the stick to do a neutral jump. Your opponent's AA will whiff and, in theory, you'll then drop down and can do a falling j.C to hit them.). You can also do a low altitude forward airdash - though this is more risky than most options because you can't barrier or double jump once you've committed to this. A beginner maneuver that's not actually very smart is to jump backwards and then airdash forwards - this is predictable and easy to anti-air.

Tsubaki also has a couple of other gimmicks you can use on the approach - it's generally unwise to use 236C or j.214C to approach, but if you have 50 meter to rapid cancel on block, you can catch people out, and you can catch a lot of people trying to punish a blocked 236C by D-cancelling into 214D or 22D.

Whether you want to let the other player approach you is something that will vary from matchup to matchup, but in general, Tsubaki doesn't have good enough space control to really make this a good idea against characters that are likely to do it - with the exception that if you can persuade your opponent to approach by air, Tsubaki's 2C is pretty strong.

One extra question about corner pressuring. When someone techs from the corner, I usually start jabbing them with 5A/2A, but they can easily just dash backwards and then counter me. Should I pause for a split second before starting to pressure? (This question may be pretty obvious, but just want to make sure).

Well, you want to time whatever attack you use to hit them just as they finish getting up. This is easiest to do with Tsubaki's 5B, because it has a large number of active frames compared to her other attacks, so if you do it a little bit early, you'll still make contact. If people are backdashing your jabs in the corner and then punishing you, you are timing your attacks wrong, because the 'quickest' backdash in the game is 16 frames and your jabs recover in 9, so you should be WELL finished with your jab animation before they can do anything. Pausing a split second isn't really the answer here - you really just need to get the timing right. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding what you mean by "When someone techs from the corner."?

I'll add one more question about attacking. When I get a hitconfirm, my reflexes are too slow to continue comboing. How do you guys know when are you getting a hitconfirm? If I get a hitconfirm with 5B, I'm too slow to tap 5B another time, so they can just neutral block it. 6A I can still manage, but quick attacks like 5A/2A, 5B and 5C are a problem. (Which is also one of the reasons I can't effectively pressure).

Thanks in advance ^^

This really shouldn't be a problem with Tsubaki - at least, not at a beginner level. You can basically just always push B or C twice (Note: 5BB can and will whiff after 5B at certain ranges, but for now, don't worry about that.) and you'll get a followup attack that will combo regardless if hit, and which doesn't damage your options much if the first attack is blocked. Most Tsubaki block/pressure strings will start with 5AA/2AA or 5BB. Indeed, for starters, you can probably present a credible beginner Tsubaki by just doing one of these options each time:

5BB > 2B > 'reset' with dash jab or dash throw

5BB > 2B > 6A (Only if you didn't hitconfirm before the 6A. 6A won't combo.)

5BB > 2B > 5C (You can delay the 5C slightly to punish people who mash)

5BB > 2BB (Hits people who try to block high after 2BB).

Pretty much all of those options are viable without the 2B as well (except for the last one). There are are lots of other things you can do as well, but even just those 4 options should be enough to help you find your feet.

Also, come on down to the Tsubaki forums for this kind of thing, you'll get better and more in depth answers there.