SolxBaiken Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 I will never understand your obsession with Leopaldon lol Come on, just look at him! There's literally no one else like him~ And he was just so fun to play with! Especially 4-way mirrors + w+ IT would just be nice to see him in a real GG. Never mind they appear to be EX Special Moves. Seems kind of odd to take them out. They were only in the last iteration of the XX series, Accent Core, and many believed the system was quite strong as alot of EX attacks were really, REALLY good. Honestly, I didn't even spend meter on Super (and some FBs led into their own unique Supers like Sol's Fafnir > Tyrant Wave Alpha).
Suzaku Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 @Suzaku you may have already noticed, but for now, we're using your translations for the character details on SRK. That's cool. For what it's worth, I've gone back and made a few minor tweaks to them since posting to make them more consistent with the most recent official translations by Aksys Games. I've also linked to the SRK article in the system post -- it's always good to give people alternate translations to look at.
Dazardz Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 According to the Xrd News Thread, the Xrd website description of Sol Badguy said something about, "He may look tough, but he's not a bad guy." Sol BADGUY everyone. Anyway, about the Negative Penalty... does that mean the only effect is reducing their tension to zero. I would still like to see multiplied damage if you run away too much.
SoWL Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 According to the Xrd News Thread, the Xrd website description of Sol Badguy said something about, "He may look tough, but he's not a bad guy." Sol BADGUY everyone. Anyway, about the Negative Penalty... does that mean the only effect is reducing their tension to zero. I would still like to see multiplied damage if you run away too much. That's how it's always been in GG. And since Barrier (FD) costs meter here, it hurts your defense just as much.
Ctrlaltwtf Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Honestly losing all your Tension is a helluva lot worse than getting damaged more if you enemy manages to catch you. Having no meter severely limits your ability to do all the stuff you need to do.
Dazardz Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 That's how it's always been in GG. And since Barrier (FD) costs meter here, it hurts your defense just as much. Really? I haven't actually played GG, so I haven't noticed. I've only played Blazblue, so the system works differently.
Nizzy Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 So i heard that this game has no FBs What should i say to my friend who's been complaining about that?
SoWL Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 So i heard that this game has no FBs What should i say to my friend who's been complaining about that? That he should judge the game system as a whole instead of complaining about certain mechanics missing. Wait till the game is out, basically. Or at least till the loketest starts and ASW get some feedback.
Sym_ Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 I wonder what sort of timing, if any, the yellow RCs will have.
LeonD Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 LOL it's has been awhile since my last discussion on DL! :P AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnyway... not much of a happy person after hearing that FRC's gone.... Hopefully the new RC shit will somehow fill it.... (Btw, I wonder how's Millia's hair gonna pop out that GIGANTIC hat of hers while fighting lol! XD )
Xtra_Zero Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) So i heard that this game has no FBs What should i say to my friend who's been complaining about that? Force Breaks aren't really a mechanic. Like, the "force break" part is just a sound effect and a loss of meter. Removing FBs doesn't necessarily remove any moves or even any properties other than meter drain. IMO the Force Break concept was dumb and I'm glad it's gone. As for RC slowdown, I'm not really sure what they're trying to accomplish with it. It seems ... unrelated. E: Like, of all the ways to implement this slowdown mechanic, why tack it onto RC? What? Why? And then the example they gave was to combo it? Huh? Edited August 3, 2013 by Xtra_Zero
LeonD Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Force Breaks aren't really a mechanic. Like, the "force break" part is just a sound effect and a loss of meter. Removing FBs doesn't necessarily remove any moves or even any properties other than meter drain. IMO the Force Break concept was dumb and I'm glad it's gone. As for RC slowdown, I'm not really sure what they're trying to accomplish with it. It seems ... unrelated. I have to agree with you about the RC being weird, but I think at least those FBs did commented some char's attributes ( like Millia's Oki or Jam's Crazy Puffball).
tataki Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Force Breaks aren't really a mechanic. Like, the "force break" part is just a sound effect and a loss of meter. Removing FBs doesn't necessarily remove any moves or even any properties other than meter drain. IMO the Force Break concept was dumb and I'm glad it's gone. IMO super moves are dumb. It's not really a mechanic even! I mean it's just a bigger move with some very useful properties that also has balancing factor in the form of costing resources, limiting the access to it in a match. Oh wait...
Hecatom Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 IMO super moves are dumb. It's not really a mechanic even! I mean it's just a bigger move with some very useful properties that also has balancing factor in the form of costing resources, limiting the access to it in a match. Oh wait... And this is why we should have an agree button here on DL
Ronove Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) The absence of FB might be a bad thing if that happaned to the current GG, but we really don't know if their loss would weigh just as much in Xrd yet. For all we know some of the characters' specials might have changed to a point where they might be almost as good as their GGAC FB counterparts, we're assuming that just because the old characters keep the same moveset then each move will behave identically, which might not necessarily be the case. Which is why it's still too early to pass judgement on whether the lack FB is going to hurt the quality of the game or not, IMHO. Xrd is an entirely new game afterall, it's not a simple update of the current GG. Edited August 3, 2013 by Ronove
Hecatom Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 The absence of FB might be a bad thing if that happaned to the current GG, but we really don't know if their loss would weigh just as much in Xrd yet. For all we know some of the characters' specials might have changed to a point where they might be almost as good as their GGAC FB counterparts, we're assuming that just because the old characters keep the same moveset then each move will behave identically, which might not necessarily be the case. Which is why it's still too early to pass judgement on whether the lack FB is going to hurt the quality of the game or not, IMHO. Xrd is an entirely new game afterall, it's not a simple update of the current GG. Dunno you man, but for me taking out tools & options from the characters is not a good thing, period. Also, not every forcebreak is a powerful version/version with different propeties of an existing move, look at Chipp, Zappa and Testament for example. Also, i can't stress how worried makes me to know that they are using #R as a base for this new entry, smh.
Akujikan Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Dunno you man, but for me taking out tools & options from the characters is not a good thing, period. You mean like how everyone mourned the passing of Gold Bursts and being able to guard break people without meter in the transition from CS(E) to CP? While I am personally fairly ambivalent towards FB's as a mechanic in general, there are a few moves I'll miss. I wouldn't be surprised if FRC's and/or FB's still end up making a showing in a later version of the game, but they are simply omitted from the loketest so people will spend more of their meter on RC's and help give them feedback on their YRC and slowdown mechanics, since these are far and away the biggest change to their core system from the long XX series to Xrd (imo, at least).
SolxBaiken Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 This is a new game, so it can set it's own rules. I love, Love, LOVE Force Breaks but in no way are they 100% "needed" to make Guilty Gear, Guilty Gear. I mean the series ran without them for YEARS, they're an Accent Core thing, if they come back in a future iteration of Xrd, awesome, if not, that doesn't doom the game. Yes Heca, "taking away" tools/options is bad, there's no arguing that, however this isn't AC+R#/Redux this is Xrd. Also alot of the FBs that aren't mere EX attacks can [and in most cases HAVE] been implemented into a non-EX world, something they're clearly keen on doing by giving Sol back Fafnir as a regular attack (as opposed to keeping it to Sol EX or a FB). Major system changes are nothing new in fighters, I mean look at SF, little of the Alpha or III systems can be found in IV despite numerous characters from those games being featured, and alot of those characters still do just fine, if not better. At the end of the day this just takes a new approach and perspective, if you were honestly hoping to play another AC then good news, AC+R should be heading to consoles this month, for now (especially since we have ZERO idea how ARC plans to implement characters and moves) we shouldn't be so quick to blow our brains out at X thing missing or Y option acting differently. Let's see where this is actually going first lol.
Ronove Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) Dunno you man, but for me taking out tools & options from the characters is not a good thing, period. That's because in your mind you're treating Xrd as a sequel to AC, which is likely not going to be the case. As I said, we really don't know how the characters in the game will play, are we really sure that FBs would be needed in Xrd? I am not saying you can't be pessimistic about it or anything like it, I'm just saying that until we can get some solid information from what the characters can do it's still early to say whether the lack of a certain mechanic is going to to hurt the game's depth or not. Once we'll know how their basic stuff will behave then I am sure we'll be able to say if the game would have benefited from having FBs included. Edited August 3, 2013 by Ronove
Rhiya Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) While Xrd clearly isn't a sequel to anything but the franchise itself, it also seems really odd to chuck your last 7 or 8 years' worth of matchdata and balance work right out the window. It's not like SF, where they're trying to revive the franchise, and SF3 wasn't something they felt comfortable repeating. They -just- released +R, and as far as I can tell, the reaction has been positive. It seems odd not to take what you know works, especially in a franchise with such a delicate balance scale as GG. EDIT: Also, as regards supers: how many characters in this game regularly use their supers, anyways? The Xrd system encourages you to save for supers, sure, but they don't have the greatest track record for usefulness from everything I've seen. It's not even like BB, where they're guaranteed damage. They'd need to implement some serious changes to the supers to make them more worthwhile. Edited August 3, 2013 by Dusk Thanatos
SolxBaiken Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 But there's actually a pretty big rift between community opinions on Slash (ok, it's really #R but humor me) and AC era GG. Also +R, while a welcome injection of life to the AC series, isn't quite the revival that Xrd needs to be, even putting that aside if you really think that they were just going to make another "complicated" GG to appeal only to the "hardcore" fanbase, then you are in for some rough travels. No doubt Xrd has been thought of from many angles in order to keep it feeling like Guilty Gear while also lowering the bar of entry, proven by simplifying the Guard bar system and even fully incorporating and simplifying the Impossible Dust. They're not just "tossing" out all their past experience, data, and mantras, they're just finding a way to redistribute it without overwhelming the uninitiated.
Phrekwenci Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Ky Kiske ... Occupation: First King of the United Kingdom of Illyria So basically he is... King... Ky...
Rhiya Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 But there's actually a pretty big rift between community opinions on Slash (ok, it's really #R but humor me) and AC era GG. Also +R, while a welcome injection of life to the AC series, isn't quite the revival that Xrd needs to be, even putting that aside if you really think that they were just going to make another "complicated" GG to appeal only to the "hardcore" fanbase, then you are in for some rough travels. No doubt Xrd has been thought of from many angles in order to keep it feeling like Guilty Gear while also lowering the bar of entry, proven by simplifying the Guard bar system and even fully incorporating and simplifying the Impossible Dust. They're not just "tossing" out all their past experience, data, and mantras, they're just finding a way to redistribute it without overwhelming the uninitiated. It doesn't work like that, though. Game systems are cohesive wholes, and removing one part damages the others. Adding parts does the same, if you're not careful. The thing that concerns me is that they're removing certain things without a proper form of compensation. FRC scares me the most, if it's gone. While FRC certainly isn't beginner-friendly, FRC is also what separates GG out from every other anime game. Once it's gone, there's nothing unique that GG has as an edge, system-wise, over P4A, Melty, etc. Sure, there are some things people may still prefer about GG to those games, like how the guard bar functions -- but those are minimal in comparison to difference FRC makes.
shinr Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 I remember an old Pachi interview/twitter/drunk rambling about removing FRCs and other complicated stuff from future GG (and turning it 3D, not that we mind now). Seems he was really serious.
Orrax Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Dunno you man, but for me taking out tools & options from the characters is not a good thing, period. Also, not every forcebreak is a powerful version/version with different propeties of an existing move, look at Chipp, Zappa and Testament for example. Also, i can't stress how worried makes me to know that they are using #R as a base for this new entry, smh. Taking out a tool/option isn't necessarily good or bad, imho. If it's a tool that adds depth to a game, yeah, taking it out is definitely, definitely bad. If it only adds stupidity, then getting rid of it is probably good. If it doesn't really add much, then its removal may not be particularly detrimental. I personally don't think a game like SF4 would be a worse game if they got rid of the "can't special cancel gatlings" mechanic. And, to be honest, I think vanilla AC probably would have been a better game without force breaks. Most of them didn't add much to the game, and the ones that did were frequently stupid (i.e. Eddie's FB drill). I'm personally excited about them in +R, though -- because they seem to be adding depth to the game. It all depends on implementation -- putting force breaks into the new game system might add depth, but it might add stupidity as well. It might also just not add much, who knows. I'm not saying it's good that they took them out, just that, coming from vanilla AC, it doesn't seem like a particularly huge loss to me. And Slash is considered by most to be a good game, and that was based off of #R. It was also well-balanced on the whole (I don't think Ky was any worse than AC Eddie or Testament; the main unfortunate thing imho was Robo-Ky). +R is also adding in a bunch of stuff back in from #R, like dustloop, Millia's j.H, Ky's 6H, etc. And I think +R looks better for it. My point isn't that #R is necessarily a good base, just that it's not necessarily a bad one, either. It had a lot of good things and a few problems. So long as they don't repeat the problems, I can see it working well. I can see it having problems too, though. We'll have to wait and see.
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