[CP] Kokonoe - Gameplay Discussion (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[Tari]

Oh, so I just don't tech until they decide to start using a legit setup.

Does Bunker > 5C > Black Hole require IB as stated above, or just roll asap and run away?

There are 8 characters (technically 10, but two have no reason to use it) that I know of who can roll out of black hole setups that don't force them to tech. Jin is one of them.

There's no wake-up timing necessary for the roll > dash escape to work. You can lie on the floor until the black hole spawns and watch Kokonoe float for a while before rolling if you want to. You just have to dash immediately out of the roll.

If the opponent does a setup that forces you to tech (ie: 5C > 22B), you can't roll because you'll just get reset into the black hole like everyone else.

[Putin]

There are 8 characters (technically 10, but two have no reason to use it) that I know of who can roll out of black hole setups that don't force them to tech. Jin is one of them.

These characters are ones who can run I suppose? You've definitely answered my initial questions, but I'm really curious about the way this works.

[Tari]

They're characters who have thinner roll hitboxes, can run, and have good dash animations. Some characters can run and can roll out, but have wide dashing animations, so they get sucked back in (ie: Terumi), some characters just have fat roll hitboxes (ie: most of the cast), and some characters don't have runs and just get sucked up (ie: Hazama).

Ragna, Jin, Platinum, Izayoi (non-GA mode), Tsubaki, Makoto, Amane, and Nu can roll and dash out. Rachel and Carl can do it, too, but they're both missing one of the three requirements. Rachel's too fat, so she has to wind herself during her roll to get out. Carl has no dash, so he has to use Vivace after his roll. In both cases, they have better options (Carl just does tech Vivace, and Rachel just uses wind teching).

[Loli Bacon]

So, how do I deal with people who refuse to tech? I'm having issues because people will refuse to tech 3C > 22B oki, so to punish them, what should I do? I'm doing 2B > 6A, but it's just blue beating, and then I'm done with the combo. I'm thinking of doing 2B > 2C > 6C > j.5D > j.236D |> 6B > 236B oki, but I'm not sure if this works.

Having the same problem in the corner off 236B > 5C > 22B oki. They're not teching, so the 22B is just blue beating them. Thoughts?

However, I found that if I do 236B midscreen and they don't tech, I get a fat, juicy combo with 6D > IAD > j.B(2) |> 6A > j.B(2)> JC > j.B(2) > j.2C > j.236D |> 6B > 236B.

[True_Tech]

blockstrings seem to be a problem of mine, anyone got any go to block strings they use? seems to be just about getting them to block a 6a, then from there you can either 2b or 6b but outside of that i'm kinda inept. Also I'm not home to test so can someone let me know if 3c, 5d, is safe on barrier block?

[TD]

@loli, delay 22b for oki. (like 5c *bomb hits delay 22b). the right timing will hit them, you have forever to do it. outside of that, there isnt much. get the timing of punishing rolls down, punish with 2b. or set up a graviton/fire while the 22b bluebeats. the first should be all you need.

@truetech: it's not reliant on just 6a, 5a and 5b do essentially the same thing, with different starter/combo route.

blockstring can literally, almost be whatever you want. most stuff is tight and has reverse gatlings. you choose how and when to end them. you either do pressure for a mixup, a frametrap, jumpout, or reset

ill give a small rundown.

-2b, 3c to catch jumpouts

-6b, jc, j2c for highs and 2b, 3c for low

-xd for reset, preferably 5d for IOH imo, but has other use. unsafe, use when given respect

-delay gatlings or anything into 2c for a frametrap/psuedo reset attempt. 6c works too.

-2a/5a/5d for throw attempt.

dont use fire/22b in pressure. 22a is +? use after 6b only as there usually are better options.

[KingSalomon_]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4vK4uQYqDY

[Pen_Ninja]

I hope you're asking for some sort of match analysis... otherwise I just look terrible saying stuff when you didn't want it.

Here we go.

You need to work on your corner carry. There were a number of confirms that could have brought your opponent to the corner and essentially ended the game. The ones that come to mind at 0:35 where you could have done this which would have left you at maybe 1/4 away from the corner, at which point a Nu can only really go backwards or attempt to go over you. The other the throw at 0:41 where you could have done 6D or 9D to keep them closer to the corner. The j.As before the purple throw would have scaled the combo so you couldn't do a full throw combo but the corner would have been nice.

Along with the above, just working on combos in general will always help. There were a lot of 2Cs and 6Cs done when they weren't going to combo. Most of these could have been replaced with 236A and in some cases, the combo could have been extended and pushed to the corner thanks to existing gravitons on screen.

Other than this, just general neutral game is important.

-I like the graviton > fireball and sometimes the teleport but there were a few cases where you teleported too early or at not so ideal times where it wouldn't cross him up and just set you up to be counter hit. Sometimes a 6D > 236D can be just as effective because it puts people in blockstun and moves them towards you at the same time.

-There were a bunch of whiffed 3Cs mid-blockstring because of the graviton influencing your opponent so they were within 3C's minimum range. This is something you'll get over in time as long as you're aware that it's happening. I used to whiff 3Cs often too .

-I'm really against using 1D, 2D or 3D in most cases as it leaves the graviton in the ground which AFAIK is pretty much always bad for combos because it makes people land even faster and it also covers less space. The only time I really use these directions is when myself or my opponent are high enough in the air that the camera has moved to follow them and the edge of the screen has changed position. 6D, 4D and 5D should be your go-to gravitons.

[KingSalomon_]

Ah yes so much thanks for the analyses, just what I wanted. I will try and work on those things you said! I will upload again soon! Do you guys also get messages on psn, why are you playing god tier, awh you are so not cool with your sss tier!

[Fujiwara]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTPtXRJHFGNJdbhlqb7azAIVPE1uxyW4h&feature=mh_lolz

This is a small playlist a setup I made from 6B > OD in the corner. This should also work as a UB setup but I didn't tes tit out that way. I was trying to create a four-way situation in the corner.

This setup has been tested against more than just the thing here, but for the most part only Platinum can get out for free so far. noel can 4d but 4D loses to lows and throw as does Vivace for Carl.

Jin/Hakumen can Yukikaze.

Tager can use Magnawheel to get out but the timing is quirky.

If anyone wants me to record or test something else I can.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Fujiwara

[Loli Bacon]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTPtXRJHFGNJdbhlqb7azAIVPE1uxyW4h&feature=mh_lolz

This is a small playlist a setup I made from 6B > OD in the corner. This should also work as a UB setup but I didn't tes tit out that way. I was trying to create a four-way situation in the corner.

This setup has been tested against more than just the thing here, but for the most part only Platinum can get out for free so far. noel can 4d but 4D loses to lows and throw as does Vivace for Carl.

Jin/Hakumen can Yukikaze.

Tager can use Magnawheel to get out but the timing is quirky.

If anyone wants me to record or test something else I can.

You can do this setup without overdrive. Any combo > 22B oki when you don't have the meter to black hole leads into:

22B > 22C > 22C > 5B

If they try and reversal, I'm pretty sure everyone gets hit because if you time it right, the second 22C goes through all reversal attempts. You cross up with the first so they have to guess for the cross up (platinum exempt) and then the second 22C goes to the other side, causing the reversal to whiff (platinum's doll will be on the side you're currently on, and will whiff).

The timing is tricky, but it beats everything. I'll try and record it when I get a chance.

EDIT: It beats vivace because with the right timing, Carl will have to input it in reverse, so he'll be rolling INTO the corner and lightning will catch.

[Fujiwara]

Ah, so it works the same as what I've usually been doing. Alright. I never tested it against reversals before.

[LordSpectreX]

Sorry if it was said somewhere else, it probably has a simple answer. But when you do the 22B>BlackHole setup, what's to stop them from taking the 22B on purpose? Barely anything seems to work after 22B>BlackHole on hit.

[Loli Bacon]

Sorry if it was said somewhere else, it probably has a simple answer. But when you do the 22B>BlackHole setup, what's to stop them from taking the 22B on purpose? Barely anything seems to work after 22B>BlackHole on hit.

We'll just have to learn optimal combos from it. Free damage is free damage.

[True_Tech]

I take it on purpose in mirror rather take 3k lol

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[severin]

Sorry if it was said somewhere else, it probably has a simple answer. But when you do the 22B>BlackHole setup, what's to stop them from taking the 22B on purpose? Barely anything seems to work after 22B>BlackHole on hit.

22B Black Hole 22B 3C 2C 236B 5C 236C is 5.8k

Edited December 10, 2013 by severin

[severin]

also hi I'm making a new post for this because I'm lazy:

do we have a comprehensive list of which characters 5B won't connect on after a ~2C 5D crouch confirm

[Loli Bacon]

Not particularly, but I think 2C > 4D is generally better? I dunno.

Doesn't connect on Jin. D=

EDIT: Found some STUPID 50/50s if you can get your opponent to respect you even in the slightest. Leads to 6k with 50 meter in the corner.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Loli Bacon

[Pen_Ninja]

A couple of videos of my Kokonoe. I'm still pretty new with her in real games so my neutral is pretty average for the moment.

I also start experimenting as to where I can and can't teleport out of strings which doesn't work for the most part... but now I know.

There's also a lot of failed astral inputs so probably ignore any 2A>2A>7D or 2A>black hole against Azrael...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjYF9mh2bMs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcQjaK28xPw

Posted here instead of videos thread because general advice is always good. Chances are I already know where I'm going wrong (IAD lol) but I may have missed something.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Pen_Ninja

[someonewhodied]

Anyone enjoying the new kokoloop in the corner?

(X>6B or raw 6B to start)>4D[>5B>5C]x4(>5C if shorter starter)>236B>5B>[Optional 214214A>4D~236D>]236C

Edited December 13, 2013 by someonewhodied

[Loli Bacon]

Anyone enjoying the new kokoloop in the corner?

(X>6B or raw 6B to start)>4D[>5B>5C]x4(>5C if shorter starter)>236B>5B>[Optional 214214A>4D~236D>]236C

Damage on that?

[someonewhodied]

off of a raw 6B uncharged

3547 meterless

4691 with the distortion section.

Edited December 13, 2013 by someonewhodied

[Loli Bacon]

off of a raw 6B uncharged

3547 meterless

4691 with the distortion section.

Do it for the swag, because the damage is something left to be desired. xD

[someonewhodied]

thats the point of it :v. A swaggy match ender combo.

[Pen_Ninja]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sYHMZL4pbSM

3rd part of those casual sets.

Really happy with the astral setup at 28:40