[CP] Kokonoe - Gameplay Discussion (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[Kurushii]

How do I combo from Black Hole?

Dash then combo.... If you want the 1200 damage from the fall of black hole you have to otg exactly when they hit the ground. It's a very very small window. The one in my cmv is 632146D |> 66 > 2C > 6C > j.D , j.B(1) |> 6A > jc > j.B(2) > jc > j.B(2) > j.2C > j.236D |> 6B(2) > 22A , 6B(2) > 236A/236B/22B/5D

[blackraen]

you have to otg exactly when they hit the ground. It's a very very small window.

VERY small. Is it even practical to try for it or should you just pick up the combo and just be happy if you get lucky with the ground pickup?

I don't really understand why but I'm have an intensely difficult time reliably connecting .... j.5C > j.6D > 236D

Is there some kind of specific spacing or timing thing I'm missing on this, or should I only be doing one jump (something into airi) > j.5b > j.5c.. instead of j.5b > jc > j.5b?

[Andarel]

Probably timing - they need to be overlapping the upper edge of the graviton after they bounce from j5C. If you do j236C too early they'll go flying.

[Kurushii]

It's all risk reward. Imo I wouldn't go for the otg in a match.

You have to be fast. If your combo starter was bad or you are doing it very late in the combo you may not have enough hitstun left. Remember graviton into activation is a link. You have to input it fast in the majority of the situations it's used in combos. As you said try shortening your combo if they are teching too soon.

[NecroTheReaper]

I honestly can't get it to work at all if you OD cancel 3C, no idea why though. 3C RC works perfectly but OD cancel doesn't even seem to wallbounce

[Andarel]

Any match videos floating around? I remember seeing Tsujikawa streaming earlier but kept getting kicked off. I'm especially interested in seeing how people play the neutral game with her.

[DudeUnderscore]

Does anyone know how to play her in neutral? im facing a jin and it just seems like all his normals beat mine.

[Miheko]

22b 3c in corner is pretty consistent blackhole OTG wise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YObbTE5mxeU&hd=1

[blackraen]

It's all risk reward. Imo I wouldn't go for the otg in a match.

You have to be fast. If your combo starter was bad or you are doing it very late in the combo you may not have enough hitstun left. Remember graviton into activation is a link. You have to input it fast in the majority of the situations it's used in combos. As you said try shortening your combo if they are teching too soon.

Yeah it's kind of a mix between the tech and just missing the graviton. I'll reduce the chain and try a little more patience. I really run into this problem working on challenge 24 (graviton > 5b>6a>j.b > jc j.b>j.c>j.6d>j.236d>2c>6c>j.2c). I'm only landing the 236D 1/5 times. Driving me crazy.

Any match videos floating around? I remember seeing Tsujikawa streaming earlier but kept getting kicked off. I'm especially interested in seeing how people play the neutral game with her.

H.H. (prior to console release Mu-12 player) has been playing her a lot.

http://www.twitch.tv/adastream/b/477769219

Edited November 10, 2013 by blackraen
twitch links for h.h.

[donkatsu]

I'm having trouble connecting the j.2C in this combo:

[CO] 5A > 5B > 2C > 6C > j.D , j.B(1) > 6A > j.2C > j.236D > 6B(2)

Is it just matter of canceling into j.2C asap?

[Kurushii]

yep, you have to jc into j.2C fast.

[True_Tech]

short vid of what i'm currently doing combo wise while i learn the other optimal stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1jTvjXX-qk&feature=youtu.be

[Smezel]

Does anyone know how to play her in neutral? im facing a jin and it just seems like all his normals beat mine.

Well from what i've been doing so far gravitons are just amazing. Dont forget 236D does dmg so if Jin is sitting on a graviton you can just blow it up on reaction if he tries for anything. And just overall gravitons and 236D especially are amazing, i've been using it to punish whiffs, push people in the corner making them overshoot dashes and basically just everything to confuse and fuck with people.

But on the other hand Kokonoe's normals just suck. Her only sort of decent pokes are j2C, jB, the rest is just too slow or have too little range. So its really important to have good graviton setups to push people into your range for punishers. 22B and Fireball are also nice just to have shit on the field that people have to worry about.

Sort of unstructured reply, but hope that helps.

[Kurushii]

I'm having trouble connecting the j.2C in this combo:

[CO] 5A > 5B > 2C > 6C > j.D , j.B(1) > 6A > j.2C > j.236D > 6B(2)

Is it just matter of canceling into j.2C asap?

Also to further add. That combo route that was shown in my cmv is no where near the best route. I found better ones that do more damage, corner carry, and are much easier. Such as:

[CO] 5A > 5B > 2C > 6C > jc* > j.C > j.6D , j.236D |> 66 > 6B(2) > 236B , 5C >

236C [3763/26%]

22B/5D [3330/23%]

*Input fast, and do as forward jump.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Kurushii

[Sadeyo]

Because I'm currently moving to another unit overseas I won't be able to provide my knowledge behind the character like I want to. I also like to admit that I'm jealous of all of you who get to Kokonoe during my absence, hopefully by next week I should be settled at my new unit and playing the character as well.

Prove that Sector Seven shouldn't be taken lightly. Does anyone have any video of themselves in action? I like to know how well she handles herself on a common level of combat.

[KCommision]

what can kokonoe do in neutral game? after a few sets, setting up gravitons just invite my opponent to rush me down asap. so far what im doing is back dash, 6D and fireball before i go in and play the offense game

[donkatsu]

Also to further add. That combo route that was shown in my cmv is no where near the best route. I found better ones that do more damage, corner carry, and are much easier. Such as:

[CO] 5A > 5B > 2C > 6C > jc* > j.C > j.6D , j.236D |> 66 > 6B(2) > 236B , 5C >

236C [3763/26%]

22B/5D [3330/23%]

*Input fast, and do as forward jump.

Thanks, it's definitely easier to do. I couldn't connect that J.2C no matter how fast I do it.

[TD]

What are some of her pokes? Apparently jb, j2c, 5c are her pokes. What about 3c? It's probably her longest ranged normal. 2b low profiles some characters important attacks ( because the only thing better than blocking an attack is making it whiff).

I've been playing the neutral rather awkwardly Using graviton pull to dictate what I'm doing. Like for 6d the primary goal is to get out a fireball for a setup, but there's also the chance to set out 22b as well using the pull as keepaway. Once it's out it should be very hard for the foe to get close to her and disrespect, so I use it every time I get a knockdown. With 5d , 4d or sets like that I use the pull to play a midrange game with 3c and her other normals. 3c is -1 on block so it's unpunishable and cancellable into another graviton. It's long range and combos on ch. If I manage to get pressure there are too many options, so dirty.

Without the bit 22b is my go to, along with fireball to threaten the foe because it lasts so long and I can move it wherever I wish at any time. 6a is important for those trying to stuff my setups pre-emptively, meanwhile 236b though it has low priority, punishes other setup characters.

In a sense she is Rachel's incarnate. Pumpkin is the fireball, frog is the lightning, graviton is wind. So I just use a similar gameplan than for Rachel and it works somewhat.

Hope this helped a little with the neutral. I'm not entirely familiar with her yet and there are a lot of gameplans I want to test. Like keep away with graviton, excellent mobility and teleports she's reminiscent of bridget. Or pure Rushdown using the same idea but staying in their face. She really feels like she can do whatever she wants.

[Andarel]

The main thing you need to know for poking is that all of her moves are negative on block except for 2C. That wouldn't be such a problem except that many of her moves are also dedicated towards closing the gap between you and your opponent.

Anyhow, 2b and 3c are the least negative (-1) and are great for fishing, but are really awful on whiff - to put it in perspective, both 2b and 2c are 34 frames from start to finish. 3c is an even worse 41. So throw them out only if you're sure they will be blocked, since otherwise you are eating damage. Of course, canceling into graviton or 236d changes things somewhat but still.

jb is very good, solid range and comes out pretty quick. Nice reward on hit if you can land a jc afterwards due to j6d j236d pickup.

Kokonoe is very strange. She's good at telling the opponent where not to be, unlike most of the cast which can reactively force the opponent out of an area (Nu, Hakumen, Amane) by pointing a large move in that direction once they start moving. Koko can't really do that - her moves are slow on whiff and for the most part only control the space directly in front of her unless you have a special out. What that means, though, is that once you get a special out you need to get in or force them to stay near gravity since she's a very setup-oriented character. Your neutral isn't that amazing, but you're good at screwing up other people's neutral. I've been having trouble with Tao and Litchi - fireball stuffs a lot of Tao's normal neutral game, but she can really go ham and get close up where you run the risk of whiffing 5c or jb since when she's close you can't fireball.

It's possible to play around all of these, since she has a ton of versatility and raw damage means your setups really hurt. But without space / time to set up she really needs to work hard (luckily you always have 236d to force space if they're in the air too much).

Edited November 10, 2013 by Andarel

[TD]

so the main goal would be to force space and get something out before the foe can react. so what tools are able to go about this?

this excludes most of her setup specials because once they are out, this phase is usually done with. so that means her normals are what help her to gain momentum.

you know, rachel's normals suck too. most are slow and she basically has to start the round in bad positions. looking at kokonoe's normals l don't see a huge improvement over hers. what she has though is several interesting properties that can buff her neutral game over time. l don't see her normals being as debilitating as one may think.

plus, on block, a vast amount of her moves are jcable/cancellable, so for her l dont think the static difference matters as much. it just means she cant stagger too much. with her mixup she won't need to.

[Red Reaper]

Does she have any frame data out anywhere?

[Kurushii]

Does she have any frame data out anywhere?

I've had it on the wiki since day 2.

[Fujiwara]

How the heck do I get Blackhole > 22B > 3C consistently... Seems I'm always outta range for 3C..Hm..

[Smezel]

Your neutral isn't that amazing, but you're good at screwing up other people's neutral.

I think you nailed it on that one, Kokonoe really excels at running interference. She has no real footsie tools, bad defensive zoning tools, and overall a pretty weak neutral game, but she can really mess with your opponent to throw off their spacing and zoning, and she has enough ways to do it that you can keep it ambiguous. So far i've generally found it hard to get in on people with her, but at the same time its quite easy to set up enough shit on the screen to make yourself unapproachable. It's an interesting sort of passive aggressive character.

[Andarel]

On top of some videos of Kokonoe having trouble with aggressive neutral (which we saw coming), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNyzGUpSQyo has a hilarious response to black hole at 4:00 ...