[CP] Kokonoe - Gameplay Discussion (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[greatfernman]

I was messing around with kokonoe, but how does the fireball damage work? it usually does around 800, but if i shoot it, then use 4D and then 236D and send the fireball launching at a high speed to the opponent it does like 1200 damage. does it's damage depend on the speed its moving or something? i don't understand how it works.

[sparkaura]

Kokonoe acquired! I hope to see many of you playing her. She is very fun, very complex and challenging while being relatively easy to execute. She is so natural that I think she going to be main-sub status for me, so I'll be around often and hope to get some good information and likewise.

also, found something interesting, seems like she has Noel's drive trick where, right before Noel lands she can press d and skip the startup of an air d attack and go straight into a ground one. Not sure how useful it will be for koko but if you press d right as she lands, instead of setting graviton, if it was already on the field it will disappear, taking no meter. I assume this basically eliminates the small recovery phase of setting graviton/deactivating it via 214d.

I thought this too. Maybe its because she holds some similarities with Rachel. I feel that Rachel players will feel right at home with Kokonoe.

[Fujiwara]

Why are people assuming she is going to get nerfed?

She has big damage yes but she also has no meterless reversal. She has to maintain offense to do anything of note which may or may not work given her slow normals. She's good but squishy and has flaws. People are just getting a little too excited about damage.

This is pretty much what some people here have been saying.

I don't really think she needs a nerf at all.

Her flaws are huge flaws.

I was suffering FOREVER fighting a valkenhayn.

People are really getting mad about UB setups when the character hasn't even been out that long yet.

Tsubaki had UBs, Valk has better 50/50 game that doesn't require meter or a graviton to convert off of, her zoning/lockdown isn't as obnoxious as it seems.

I would actually compare her to rachel.

Her grounded mix-up meterless and without a graviton set isn't super scary in the least.

You can easily react to her overhead 6B and someone doing j.2C off a jcable normal can also get fucked because it's easily AA'd or blocked.

I just don't think she needs a huge nerf and certainly not a ban anywhere.

[True_Tech]

I watched the combo video by Sugi_VS and saw this corner combo

2b 5b 5c 3c 236a 5a 6a 6c jc jd 236d 2c 6b 236b 6a 236c

Problem is it seem that combo wont work on certain character like azrael and izayoi (6c after ~236a 5a 6a~ will whiff), anyone know the solution to make that combo viable againts all character? And aside from azrael and izayoi, which other character that wont get hit by that 236a 5a 6a 6c stuff?

I saw in another vid that you can just skip the 6c and go right into in jb (1) DJ jb(1) jc jd etc etc think I also saw jb(2) jc JD in another vids haven't had time to try yet to see which I find more stable

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Miheko]

This is pretty much what some people here have been saying.

I don't really think she needs a nerf at all.

Her flaws are huge flaws.

I was suffering FOREVER fighting a valkenhayn.

People are really getting mad about UB setups when the character hasn't even been out that long yet.

Tsubaki had UBs, Valk has better 50/50 game that doesn't require meter or a graviton to convert off of, her zoning/lockdown isn't as obnoxious as it seems.

I would actually compare her to rachel.

Her grounded mix-up meterless and without a graviton set isn't super scary in the least.

You can easily react to her overhead 6B and someone doing j.2C off a jcable normal can also get fucked because it's easily AA'd or blocked.

I just don't think she needs a huge nerf and certainly not a ban anywhere.

22c isn't the most amazing reversal, but many chars would have problems putting you back in the corner for it, and it's still something that the opponent has to account for - disregarding it entirely is silly

these UB set ups are not comparable to something like tsubaki/jin UB set ups at all. these are basically guaranteed on around half the cast in very practical combos, and they loop into themselves marvel style, for 5k-7k per rep lol

6b is estimated around 25f - it's not the fastest overhead, but people already get blown up by 24f overheads with very little gatling options. overheads aren't just about "can you react to 25 animation cue", because if all you're doing is expecting is a standing overhead, the other person isn't mixing you up/pressuring very well enough to go for an overhead in the first place. if you jc a normal into j.2C, you can have differing levels of frame advantage/disadvantage. do it immediately and you'd have something that beats most traditional anti airs, but negative frames on landing. delay it and you'd be positive even on IB. anything is easy to react to if you play it out like a script, but actually dealing with these things in a real match can be difficult because of the sheer amount of options (unless you're a mind reader)

[Lich]

First, she does have a reversal. 22C is actually an insanely strong reversal. It allows her to ignore so much of the casts oki situations and actually force them to block for even trying to make her block. It's frame 1 invuln meaning that she can also make characters whiff normals within their pressure and either punish them or continue pressure on them. Even if someone sees it, or doesn't whiff that bad of a normal that they can respond, they only have around 10 frames to punish her, and it moves her away. Her offensive game is by far the best in the game and her neutral practically shits on everyone elses. She has every kind of button you'd ever want on a character with no smp, and her drive makes the other guy lose control of their character while she gets to run around for free with her godlike buttons. Anyone who doesn't see how strong this character is either in denial, or just doesn't understand the game well enough to see just how strong a character they are playing.

Edit: The guy above me knows what's up.

[Eshi]

People are really getting mad about UB setups when the character hasn't even been out that long yet.

Tsubaki had UBs

You've sad a lot of things that I completely disagree with, but I'm just going to focus on this because it is by far the most incorrect, in my eyes. There is a HUGE difference between Tsubaki's UB and Kokonoe's UB. Tsubaki's was reactable. Tsubaki's was a mix-up or a tech trap that people were capable of recognizing and reacting to.

Kokonoe's isn't like that. It only serves to enable setups that people either have a tool to escape, or don't. For people that don't, it's not a mix-up or a tech trap. It is one contiguous combo that resets proration in the middle. That's why people hate it.

[Fujiwara]

Lich, Eshi, Miheko

I see the errors of my thinking now. I wasn't thinking about all of that.

Thanks for setting me straight. I have been educated.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Fujiwara

[DaiAndOh]

The people got to it before I could (damn it work)

I play Kokonoe. Will do after CP2 comes out barring another character catching my eyes.

She is most godlike. All of the strengths. None of the weaknesses.

[Loli Bacon]

The people got to it before I could (damn it work)

I play Kokonoe. Will do after CP2 comes out barring another character catching my eyes.

She is most godlike. All of the strengths. None of the weaknesses.

How does someone pressure with this chick? I can't figure it out.

[DaiAndOh]

How does someone pressure with this chick? I can't figure it out.

A ton of free form gatlings as well as graviton. Hell 3c vacuums and is only -1!

[Fujiwara]

How does someone pressure with this chick? I can't figure it out.

5a 5b 5c are jcable

2a 2b 3c are your lows

Almost everything goes into 6B

j.b(1) can be cancelled into j.2c(w) for a low if they're expecting the second overhead.

There are a lot of ways to pressure with her, you just gotta be creative and mix it up.

gravitons, fireballs and instant overheads etc. lots and lotsa ways.

[Shiny Missingno]

Is 2C a good blockstring-ending move (without Gravitron and/or Fireball help) since it's +3 on block, or are there better moves to end with/use?

Edited November 8, 2013 by Shiny Missingno

[Mirasantika]

I saw in another vid that you can just skip the 6c and go right into in jb (1) DJ jb(1) jc jd etc etc think I also saw jb(2) jc JD in another vids haven't had time to try yet to see which I find more stable

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Thanks, going directly into high jump jb(2) after 6a give consistent result for me, and I think it work on all character since kokonoe position is at the same height with the opponent when jb hit due to high jump

[sparkaura]

About the unblockable set up, Im pretty sure Rachel can wind tech out of it. Im testing it myself atm, but if anyone else once to test please do I feel Im doing the set up wrong anyway lol

[RifleAvenger]

This character is nuts. Day 1 Kokonoe's had the salt stream running in my local group. It's only going to get worse from here...

I like the character, but for now, she's a bit much. I'd almost like to know how she's going to play post-inevitable nerf before putting in a lot of time on her god-mode variant now.

Well, she is the child of the Greatest and the Strongest.

Edited November 8, 2013 by RifleAvenger

[BlackYakuzu94]

And people were complaining about Terumi...

[Loli Bacon]

A ton of free form gatlings as well as graviton. Hell 3c vacuums and is only -1!

You aren't getting smacked mid string by putting out a graviton? What respect!

[Bill307]

someone doing j.2C off a jcable normal can also get fucked because it's easily AA'd or blocked.

Unless you pushed them away with a long gatling into 5C and no graviton, why wouldn't you just jump cancel into j.C?

How does someone pressure with this chick? I can't figure it out.

5A, 6A, and 5B are all jump cancellable into an instant overhead j.C. (j.C 236D with graviton or j.C RC to combo; j.C j.2C 2D otherwise) They can also be gatling'd into 2A and 2B for lows. Simple ground combos ending with 5C 3C 22B or 5C (2C) 3C 5D put them back into your mixups.

E.g. a basic pressure string is 5A 2A 5A 2A 5B 2B and jump-cancel any of the 5As or 5B into j.C. Afaik, if they block j.C your pressure ends, but that's still a lot of high/low guessing that they have to do. And this is just a basic example.

[DaiAndOh]

You aren't getting smacked mid string by putting out a graviton? What respect!

I don't do it point blank you know...unless 22B is putting in work.

[Kurushii]

236C Damage Values

Max Range (5C distance):

2173

2197

2221

Mid Range (5A distance):

2221

2245

2269

Close Range (Throw distance):

2411

2454

2459

2475

2480

2495

2500

Edited November 8, 2013 by Kurushii

[True_Tech]

don't know if everyone has seen this throw combo, using the 7d, 236c tech from the nico video kurushii posted. definitely learning this tonight

http://youtu.be/myz5yEdUA7c

[Rorshock520]

don't know if everyone has seen this throw combo, using the 7d, 236c tech from the nico video kurushii posted. definitely learning this tonight

http://youtu.be/myz5yEdUA7c

7D on 236C is so wonky X_X

Kokonoe is nuts.

[Shiny Missingno]

Apparentely you can Kara throw by plinking 6A into B+C

http://youtu.be/AE3wps_hr7Y

[greatfernman]

yeah so i haven't the slightest clue why 214A/B/C does 830+ in multiple hits but 1.2k in a single hit when i launch it at them. i posted earlier but nobody replied, does anyone know how the damage works on it? does it just get a single high damage hit property if its travelling above a certain speed.