[CP] Kokonoe - Gameplay Discussion (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[someonewhodied]

ive been using graviton activates a lot for grab setups. No one is ever ready to be launched forward and then grabbed :3

[Sadeyo]

Is there a moment when kokonoe is not all insane on the screen? Expect some game play in the future from yours truly.

New equipment and back to uploading weekly if possible.

[mr. tibbs]

Anyone know why Kokonoe's color 1 lolipop is... yellow?

Apologies if this has already been addressed.

[NumeroGaijin]

I am glad that frame data on this chick is finally up.

[Kurushii]

I am glad that frame data on this chick is finally up.

It's been up since like the first week of release.

[TD]

Anyone know why Kokonoe's color 1 lolipop is... yellow?

Apologies if this has already been addressed.

She probably ate the red one and now has a yellow one perhaps. I mean, lollipops are meant to be temporary after all.

Same effect, presumably.

[Dawn of Musou]

So I got Koko a few days ago, been practicing online with her for most of this time. I know the basics but I realize two things about my Kokonoe play. One is that I don't use Activate enough and another is that I have no idea how to utilize OD with her at all. How useful is OD for Kokonoe and how exactly can I use it, combos or otherwise?

[NumeroGaijin]

It's been up since like the first week of release.

Really? When I looked on the wiki it was there along with Kagura's. If it has been up that long then I guess it must have been a page error because all I saw was a page with empty boxes.

[Pen_Ninja]

So I got Koko a few days ago, been practicing online with her for most of this time. I know the basics but I realize two things about my Kokonoe play. One is that I don't use Activate enough and another is that I have no idea how to utilize OD with her at all. How useful is OD for Kokonoe and how exactly can I use it, combos or otherwise?

Activate is a wonderful thing. You'll get used to it fairly quickly as long as you actively try to use it, you'll find the right situation.

I've been using OD for start of round 5B confirms. If your opponent is standing then you don't really get much off a raw 5B mid-screen but with OD you can get almost 5K and carry to the corner. Use these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X61V_Nb4q1E

Sometimes it's easier to skip the 6B on the last one. In any case you need to make sure you're jump cancelling out of 2C as early as possible on the 2nd one, it gives you enough time to hit the floor and run in to 6B.

Really? When I looked on the wiki it was there along with Kagura's. If it has been up that long then I guess it must have been a page error because all I saw was a page with empty boxes.

Basic frame data has been up since very very early but there's still nothing on the "full frame data" page.

[Kurushii]

but there's still nothing on the "full frame data" page.

No one wants to bother helping with Kokonoe work and I have a ton a projects already. Copy pasting stuff to another page is at the bottom of my priority list.

[Dawn of Musou]

Activate is a wonderful thing. You'll get used to it fairly quickly as long as you actively try to use it, you'll find the right situation.

I've been using OD for start of round 5B confirms. If your opponent is standing then you don't really get much off a raw 5B mid-screen but with OD you can get almost 5K and carry to the corner. Use these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X61V_Nb4q1E

Sometimes it's easier to skip the 6B on the last one. In any case you need to make sure you're jump cancelling out of 2C as early as possible on the 2nd one, it gives you enough time to hit the floor and run in to 6B.

Oh wow, thanks. Gonna take a long time in training mode to do a combo like that and even longer to do it online but as long as it works then I'm good lol. Any other ways to use OD?

[Pen_Ninja]

Oh wow, thanks. Gonna take a long time in training mode to do a combo like that and even longer to do it online but as long as it works then I'm good lol. Any other ways to use OD?

You can use it to close out a round either by making your combo unburstable because you're in overdrive or by comboing into giant Tager in OD so it does more damage.

Just be careful because the stronger graviton in OD makes some combos not work.

[Dawn of Musou]

Trying out OD combos and that stronger pull is weird to work around. Also found out a simple way to go into Golden Tager finish~

[Kurushii]

Crouching Normals Vs. Kokonoe 6C

[special thanks to Jiyuna and BananaKen for making this secret tech public.]

Note: Whiffs means that normal will lose to 6C. Punishes means that normal will beat 6C.

Amane

2A/2B/2C/3C whiffs

2D punishes

Arakune

2A/2B/2C whiffs

3C dodges

Azrael

2A/2B/3C/2D whiffs

2C punishes

Bang

2A/2C whiffs

2B/2D punishes

3C dodges

Bullet

2A/2B/2C/3C whiffs

Carl

2A/2B/3C whiffs

2C punishes

Hakumen

2A/2B/3C whiffs

2C/2D punishes

Hazama

2A/2B/3C whiffs

2C punishes

Izayoi

2A/2B/2C/3C whiffs

Jin

2A/2B/3C whiffs

2C punishes

Kagura

2A/2B/2C/3C whiffs

Kokonoe

2A/2B/2C/3C whiffs

Litchi

2A/2B/3C whiffs

2C punishes

Makoto

2A/2B/2C/3C whiffs

2D(Lv1/2) punishes

Mu

2A/2B/3C whiffs

2C punishes

Noel

2A/2B/2C/3C whiffs

Nu

2A/2B/3C whiffs

2C punishes

Platinum

2A/2B/3C whiffs

2C punishes

Rachel

2A/2B/3C whiffs

2C punishes

Ragna

2A/2B/2C/3C whiffs

Relius

2A/2B/3C whiffs

2C punishes

Tager

2B/3C whiffs

2A/2C/2D* punishes

*Has to be done as a meaty.

Taokaka

2A/2B/2C/3C whiffs

Terumi

2A/2B/2C/2D/3C whiffs

Tsubaki

2A/2B whiffs

2C/3C punishes

Valkenhayn

2A/2B/3C/w5A/w5C whiffs

2C/w5B punishes

Edited January 20, 2014 by Kurushii

[BananaKun]

6C

I tweeted at you, but it's probably better to put it here. The reason why 6C dodges a lot of things is that it's apparently airborne on frame 2 (can't grab her), lower hurtbox removed on frame 4 (foot invul?). It's technically a jumping normal so it should lose to anti-airs consistently. This move dodges tick throws that would normally produce pink throws

Maybe someone else can help me verify when you're able to grab her. I was going to make a video but I haven't finished testing it to make sure the properties on it are correct.

[Maho]

She's throw invuln from frame 4 of the move, to test this I picked Tager and recorded Kokonoe doing 6B > 6C, 6B is -2 on block and -5 on IB.

- IB 6B > 360B grabs on frame 1 of 6C.

- IB backthrow grabs on frame 2 of 6C.

- normal block > 720 grabs on frame 3 of 6C.

- normal block > 360B fails to grab on frame 4 of 6C.

Also not really usefull but it looks like she can't be air grabbed untill the end of active frames, doing it in the recorvery is possible if you're in her back after jumping above 6C's active frames, but she's not in CH state so she'll be able to break the grab. One thing to remember though is that 6C is quite easy to backdash and is very bad on whiff, 30f of recovery with last 5f are on the ground.

Speaking of backdash, the info isn't on the wiki so I tested it a while ago, Kokonoe's backdash is 24f long and invuln for 10f.

EDIT: correction, she's not airborne from frame 4, she just can't be thrown from this frame, which is the same frame as foot invuln in the frame data, maybe they just forgot to mention throw invuln there. As for being airborne, like the frame data says it's from frame 7, as you can hit her on the ground with a normal move up the 6th frame of 6C.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Maho

[BananaKun]

She's throw invuln from frame 4 of the move, to test this I picked Tager and recorded Kokonoe doing 6B > 6C, 6B is -2 on block and -5 on IB.

- IB 6B > 360B grabs on frame 1 of 6C.

- IB backthrow grabs on frame 2 of 6C.

- normal block > 720 grabs on frame 3 of 6C.

- normal block > 360B fails to grab on frame 4 of 6C.

Also not really usefull but it looks like she can't be air grabbed untill the end of active frames, doing it in the recorvery is possible if you're in her back after jumping above 6C's active frames, but she's not in CH state so she'll be able to break the grab. One thing to remember though is that 6C is quite easy to backdash and is very bad on whiff, 30f of recovery with last 5f are on the ground.

Speaking of backdash, the info isn't on the wiki so I tested it a while ago, Kokonoe's backdash is 24f long and invuln for 10f.

EDIT: correction, she's not airborne from frame 4, she just can't be thrown from this frame, which is the same frame as foot invuln in the frame data, maybe they just forgot to mention throw invuln there. As for being airborne, like the frame data says it's from frame 7, as you can hit her on the ground with a normal move up the 6th frame of 6C.

That makes sense, thanks for clearing that up. I tested this rather informally and improvised a situation where kokonoe has 2 frames to act, but I didn't actually verify if the moves I used had correct frame data or if I timed it perfectly..

[someonewhodied]

So i found a bullshit reset.

X>Superball A>6D>236C~(Bullets whiff)>214A>5D~Grab

The first hit of the fireball will reset the combo, forcing the opponent in a standing position. You will be grabbing them between the first and second hits.

If they reject your throw, the fireball will still be there and will allow you to get a 50/50 mixup anyways.

Otherwise, you can get a 5K grab combo into the same situation.

Also kokonoe is so bullshit, you can combo after tager laser.

Im done. Thats all, pack up folks. Its over. Koko is even more bullshit than i thought.

Edited February 3, 2014 by someonewhodied

[Pen_Ninja]

So i found a bullshit reset.

X>Superball A>6D>236C~(Bullets whiff)>214A>5D~Grab

The first hit of the fireball will reset the combo, forcing the opponent in a standing position. You will be grabbing them between the first and second hits.

If they reject your throw, the fireball will still be there and will allow you to get a 50/50 mixup anyways.

Otherwise, you can get a 5K grab combo into the same situation.

Also kokonoe is so bullshit, you can combo after tager laser.

Im done. Thats all, pack up folks. Its over. Koko is even more bullshit than i thought.

Did you even test this?

"The first hit of the fireball will reset the combo, forcing the opponent in a standing position. You will be grabbing them between the first and second hits."

First up, this is always going to be a purple throw. From the wiki "Throwing an opponent in blockstun or hitstun (or 6 frames immediately after either) will result in a purple throw which are usually very easy to escape." Even if they're not in a combo, you still need 6 frames before throwing before it's green, there's no way there's 6 frames between 2 hits of fireball.

"If they reject your throw, the fireball will still be there and will allow you to get a 50/50 mixup anyways."

A throw reject counts as both characters getting hit for 0 damage. Fireball goes away on hit or block so the fireball will NOT still be there, neither will graviton.

"Otherwise, you can get a 5K grab combo into the same situation."

Because the fireball screws with your proration, you get around 3k into a similar situation.

"Also kokonoe is so bullshit, you can combo after tager laser."

This is one of the few BS thinks she has that I can safely say is actually not viable in match. Good luck hitting raw Tager into some graviton set above the screen.

[someonewhodied]

Did you even test this?

"The first hit of the fireball will reset the combo, forcing the opponent in a standing position. You will be grabbing them between the first and second hits."

First up, this is always going to be a purple throw. From the wiki "Throwing an opponent in blockstun or hitstun (or 6 frames immediately after either) will result in a purple throw which are usually very easy to escape." Even if they're not in a combo, you still need 6 frames before throwing before it's green, there's no way there's 6 frames between 2 hits of fireball.

"If they reject your throw, the fireball will still be there and will allow you to get a 50/50 mixup anyways."

A throw reject counts as both characters getting hit for 0 damage. Fireball goes away on hit or block so the fireball will NOT still be there, neither will graviton.

"Otherwise, you can get a 5K grab combo into the same situation."

Because the fireball screws with your proration, you get around 3k into a similar situation.

"Also kokonoe is so bullshit, you can combo after tager laser."

This is one of the few BS thinks she has that I can safely say is actually not viable in match. Good luck hitting raw Tager into some graviton set above the screen.

i assumed the fireball would stay so my bad there, its the one thing i didn't test, but I have gotten a green grab off of the reset. Its the same as grabbing raw right out of tager's atomic collider whiff making the opponent fly around and land next to you or azrael's "my planet needs me" glitch, or even jin standing sekkajin smp rapid into grab. You can actually frame 1 meaty grab off of those and its still green.

As for damage, its ~3.2K without meter, but almost 5K if you have the meter to spend.

Grab>236D+Fireball Damage>2C>6[A]>22B>5A>5B>6+]22B[>236B>5C+214214A>6D~236C

This one was ~4.8K IIRC but i didn't use 6C or j.2C so you can probably hit more.

Edited February 3, 2014 by someonewhodied

[bakahyl]

How much is the frame advantage (or rather the blockstun) on an activated graviton?

[Loli Bacon]

I saw LK tweeted that it's +24. Not sure if this is accurate, though.

[Lucalibur]

I saw LK tweeted that it's +24. Not sure if this is accurate, though.

What the fuck is wrong with this nigga's frame advantage.

[Maho]

Just tested this, seems it's +15 if you cancel it as early as possible, +10 if you want to do something you can't cancel into like a dash.

[Poultrygeist]

So the update change log is out...

I'm not a translator by any means but from what I gathered...

*j.C can be crouch blocked now.

*j.2C has you stay in the air a little bit before the actual attack comes out.

*Gravitron Gauge starts depleting sooner and it depletes faster.

*236C chip damage decreased, when you have enough heat it will automatically cancel into the rocket super instead of the minigun.

*Active gravitrons disappear when you use black hole, and your gravitron meter cannot recover while it is active. If you use the move in the corner the hitbox will be easier to escape.

That's about all I could decipher. Please correct me if I fucked any of that up lol.