[CP] Kokonoe - Gameplay Discussion (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[Kurushii]

Correct. Might not be able to do 236A, 3C either but need tested.

[Loli Bacon]

Works/worked for Mu...guess I'm spoiled but any move that covers that kind of space in that time can't be horrible....

I didn't say it would be horrible, just not as useful as it is now. Then again, it's looking like nothing she currently has outside of 6A and 6C is staying.

#RIP

[bakahyl]

Works/worked for Mu...guess I'm spoiled but any move that covers that kind of space in that time can't be horrible....

It somewhat worked for Mu because Mu had the threat of hitting you with j.c or any ground c normals as well. However Kokonoe's j.2c is faster than Mu's j.2c

[Mirasantika]

Correct. Might not be able to do 236A, 3C either but need tested.

Ouch thats hurt, so I take it that we will have a very limited meterless bnb cornercombo route on non coruching opponent as it will end afer 236a...

Uncancelable blocked 5c and jc not being overhed will take some.time for me to adjust lol

[someonewhodied]

so 6B(1)>xD>2A is a thing

5C(CH)>6C>j.6D~236D>66[A]>6B(1)>4D>2A>5B>5C>236B>22B>j.C~214A>236D(fireball launch)>66(1)>22B(oki)

midscreen to corner, works from about 2/3rds away from corner. 4.2K. This isn't optimized at all so its not going into the combo thread but what do you guys think about this link?

[Kurushii]

Sadly it doesn't work as j.236D |> 66 > 6B(1) > 4D > 2A from the standard bnb's because graviton is still in recovery state. With 6A > 6B gatling gone in v1.1 I can't think of a way to make this useful for midscreen routes. 6B(2) > 5D > 6A/5A/2A they teach you in challenge mode.

[someonewhodied]

It looks like you can do 236B>5C>odc>5C>22B>Blackhole to get the blackhole setup post patch. You just need to spend your overdrive to do it.

[Kurushii]

Info from Jiyuna:

Here are my Day 1 thoughts on Kokonoe changes. http://i.imgur.com/2Cw1gKG.png

Kokonoe 22B trap range. It won't activate from this distance.

http://t.co/ED7BcKC4zw

Kokonoe midscreen 5D > 236A > 3C setups gone because of 236A recovery nerf.

Can still RC gatling gun to have freeze.

My corner throw combo is not working because of landing frames on j2C. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...what's the timing ;((

If there is a graviton set, Kokonoe can still teleport behind you in the corner.

[Ragnarok_F4]

Huge nerfs, what did people say about her position in the tier list? From what I have seen, she could still be up there (dunno if top tier though). Her damage is still kinda good, I think.

[Errol]

S.

 

so much for the 'B tier here we come' doomsayers.

[Maho]

Seriously, people should wait a bit that we get more feedback before saying she will be S or anything, but I guess she  might be in countries where 6B is unblocakble...

[BananaKun]

So far it seems Freeze gun RC is still possible, auto super only activates if last bullet hits (so meterless freeze setups may still be possible), the max range blackhole setups work, and according to Jiyuna you can still do corner crossups with teleport as long as you use graviton.

 

There's a small caveat with max range blackhole: since 22B got buffed by reducing the proximity activation range and removing time-out, it affects this setup since it won't trigger if they just sit there and take blackhole. This means you need a different combo that will pull them into the trap.

[PhoenonX]

This TeamEXE stream, could have sworn I just saw this Koko do a combo where she could do 2C after corner 236A.

 

The corner rape is still strong with this one, but yeah her damage is now around the 2-3k range in corner now which is pretty alright.

[Diveman]

This TeamEXE stream, could have sworn I just saw this Koko do a combo where she could do 2C after corner 236A.

 

 

 

I thought the same thing but watching the archive I noticed it was 236A RC then 2C

[tetora_desu]

I confused as how 6b>22a works in the new one. Can you still get the combo?

[BananaKun]

I confused as how 6b>22a works in the new one. Can you still get the combo?

6B no longer ground bounces standing opponents (it will bounce airborne opponents), hence you would use 6B>22A as usual in juggles, but on the ground you're better off doing 6B>5C>2C 

[Kurushii]

Fixed the video and combo threads. No longer are they a mess of broken code. I been spending the last couple days tweaking the combos to only be ones that still work in v1.1 from the patch notes given. So if anyone new picks her up with the NA release they won't be learning routes that aren't available in the upcoming patch from here. Hopefully i'll have the corner routes up by Tuesday night. To anyone that did send me a PM about the mod spot, i'm going to look over them later this week. I wanted the forum transfer cleaned up before I modded someone.

[tetora_desu]

6B no longer ground bounces standing opponents (it will bounce airborne opponents), hence you would use 6B>22A as usual in juggles, but on the ground you're better off doing 6B>5C>2C 

So would 6b>5c>2c>5d>2b>5c etc work? or naw

[Kurushii]

So would 6b>5c>2c>5d>2b>5c etc work? or naw

Most likely. I've already seen players go to 6B(2) > 5C > 2C > 4D > 5B > w/e. The optimal route will most likely end up being close to...

6B(2) > 5C > 2C > 5D > 5B > 5C > 236D > 66 > 6[A] > 22B , 5A > 5B > 6C > jc > j.B(2) > j.C > j.6/9D > j.236D |> 236B

[tetora_desu]

I've been thinking about the 3C>214214C>2C>6C>jc>j.c>9D>22C>236C the freeze gun into rod setup, are there any other setups that go with this? or is it midscreen only?

Also would 214214C>6A (fully charged)>6C> etc be a different path you can go into it?

Sorry about this shitty notations .3.

[Kurushii]

3C(2) > 214214C , 2C > 6C > jc > j.C > j.9D |> 66 > 22B , 6A > sjc > j.2C > j.236D |> 6B(2) > 236B?

You generally want to go to 2C > 6C or 22B as early as possible in combos. There are plenty of different routes but most are either less damage or have issues with combo timer with the enders.

[tetora_desu]

I find the combo easier if you 22C instead of dashing. But turns out during the 66 you can 22B 66 and/or 22c and get a nasty crossup.

[Speakeasy]

Kokonoe came out for US versions yesterday. She's my favorite character in the story, so I got her and screwed around a bit to see what she does. I have a few general questions:

 

- What's Koko's gameplan? Do I need to be playing her like a zoner, using gravitons, spacing, fireballs, and traps to force mistakes and punish them for crazy damage? Does she work better almost like Mu, using big, damaging normals to lay out damage and using her traps for oki? Or does she work best a different way?

 

- Is there a way to easily combo into 2C with a FC? Because 2C>6C>j.2C is really simple and really ridiculous. If it can't be comboed into, is it as bad a move to throw out in neutral unprotected as it seems?

 

- How does her neutral game work? I tried going against the Hell AI and got completely wrecked. I have no idea what to do or what moves to do it with. Can I just fly around with j.A and "Pow pow pow. -.-" my way through everything or something? This may be a repeat of the first question but I'm hoping for ideas like setups and moves to use in neutral instead of just an overall playstyle.

[Ragnarok_F4]

I'm no Kokonoe expert, but I use her more or less.

 

1) She's not much of a zoner, BUT she has tools for zoning that are quite useful. For example if the opponent is away and respecting you, you can do fireball or supah ball, then put a graviton over him to pull the fireball then use teleport to make an instant cross-up with the ball (lol), you can use Supah Ball as a reversal too.. Actually, her gameplay style is more like Rachel's, full of setups. You probably want to end your combos with a knockdown or B Pile Bunker (for auto-oki), that way you can prepare a setup with 22B (this is a bitch setup!), and then mixup your opponent with lows (2A or 2B) or highs (6B, j5C), or cross-ups (22C), or throws, or whatever comes to your mind lol.

 

2) If you start a combo and the opponent is crouched, you can combo into 2C. For example, for a crouching opponent you can do 5B > 5C > 2C > 5D > 5B > 5C > 236D > 5B > 5C > 3C > Supah Ball > 5D > 236C, that deals good damage and hits in midscreen. You can also combo into 2C after hitting an airborne opponent with the graviton, this is actually really easy. For example, 6A (anti-air) > j5B > dj5B > j5C > j6D > j236D > 66(on the ground!) > 2C > 6C > j2C, and you can enter that route if you hit with her overhead (6B) too: 6B > 22A > 6A > (the rest of the combo I've just mentionated). Also you can cancel her 2C into 236B for the auto-oki of her B Pile Bunker.

 

3) Her neutral game is quite good, her 5B has really short range and is not that fast, but probably you want a knockdown first, so you can enter with her A attacks (her pow pow pow is good for that xD) or use j2C (this makes an emergency tech but you are already close and in the offensive). After the knockdown you have a setup ready so you can mixup. 3C is also useful in midrange, as it is quite fast. Her teleport is so good, is 1F startup and it will probably take you out of the corner (but it has recovery!), it as very good offensive and defensive option. Always cancel her 6B into 22A, on hit or block. If you hit, you can combo into it easily, if you hit but they blocked it, the 22A will cover your recovery and space you a bit, making here overhead quite safe (damn...).

 

Note that some of this things won't work in the next patch.

[Maho]

In 1.0, Kokonoe zoning is actually very strong thanks to Activate, it negates most of the zoning chars tools and is a constant menace for all the cast, so getting in Koko isn't easy for anyone in the cast when a graviton is set, but this will be gone in 1.0 so better don't rely on this too much. 

Having a graviton set full screen away also gives you an escape route with 22C if the opponent get in, don't forget that you'll still be able to TP to the Graviton location for about a second after it dispapears, but beware that running away with this triggers the negative penalty very fast.

 

22B is a very strong space controling tool, it acts king of a wall that protects you, so unless you're fighting against a character that can make you block from very far away (like Mu or Nu), you can sit a little behind it and go for a fireball or gravtion and be pretty safe. Against characters that have moves with fast forward movement (Terumi's 6C or Ragna's 214A), against those go in the air to do a fireball while being safe from attacks.

 

Fireball is very versatile thanks to the graviton and 214/236D, aiming the "cannonbal" with 236D is pretty hard, 214D is easier and you can change the speed at which the fireball moves with the graviton position you use and its timing. I think this is really underused by Koko players, you can control a lot of space with this during keepaway.

One exemple I use a lot when I go for zoning is a bit before 22B auto-activates, I go for hj214C then 2D a bit after it, it makes the fireball fall fast from the top middle of the screen then bounce one time for about half of the screen height, the opponent is either forced to go above if he wants to come in, exposing him to Koko's strong anti-air, or he stays away giving me time to setup another 22B.

 

Note that in 1.1, the nerf of Activate will make a lot harder to get respect from opponents while zoning, so I think Koko zoning won't be nearly as good, except against characters with slow movement such as Tager or Azrael.

 

Always cancel her 6B into 22A, on hit or block. If you hit, you can combo into it easily, if you hit but they blocked it, the 22A will cover your recovery and space you a bit, making here overhead quite safe (damn...).

 

Actually this is a bad habit a lot of Koko players have, any character with a 6f or less 5A can punish your for going into 22A, if you don't do anything after it you'll be safe from 6 framers, but be punished by 5 framers, against those you better go for jC for an overhead, sadly it won't work in 1.1 anymore.