[CP1.1] Kagura Mutsuki - Gameplay Discussion (Discuss Gameplay/Videos/Combos/etc.)

[FatalCounter]

I am bad I saw the changes on SRK and it is not mentionned. Well we will just gonna pray to hit them with this move. No more Free Command grab free corner damage. We gonna find something. BTW on that video 2DA hitting was pushing the oppenent way behind. We won't be able to connect. They are just forcing us to use air stance drive, F...! Corner combos will still work, midscreen combos are just meh. lol

[Justice7541]

I'm quite happy with losing a bit of damage in exchange for overall better drives (other than 2DA nerf) and a 2C that can't be punished by even Tager from fullscreen.

You know your recoveries suck when Tager of all people can rush you down.

[Dazardz]

I really love Kagura's huge damage output over simple things. Example, 6C. I didn't want that to get changed in the patch at all, but now I don't even care. Some matchups are horrible to deal with, and I will NEVER seriously use Kagura to fight Nu. No. Better neutral for less damage, sure.

[Kimchi]

Tied for 13th at Final Round. Couldn't keep the dream alive!  Really anxious to see 1.1 Kagura in play, Vods pls.

[Surf]

Managed to watch a stream. Saw a lot of stuff

 

- With lessened startup frames and recovery 5C all over looks faster

- I don’t think 5C > 46B will work anymore on airborne in the corner due to the reduced hitstun. The Kagura tried but they tech. Hopefully he just delayed it or something. Starter was 6DB

- 2C comes out quick as hell and recovers extremely fast as opposed to how it is now. 23 recovery on a move isn’t really good but its sure as hell a lot better than what he has now

- 3C pushes them back noticeably further away on hit

- 5DC > 2DA still combos. But 2DA acts weird now. They don’t go into a flat knockdown anymore. They bounce backwards away from Kagura. You can follow up with 6DA though. It looks weird. Getting it to hit seems even more strict then it is now. But its still possible

- 2DA > 6DA still combos. But it’s different then what I just mentioned earlier. 2DA on a standing opponent has the hard knockdown effect while I think on airborne they bounce backwards. Even if you rapid after 2DA Kagura is airborne. Xiei said during the last loktest that 46B doesn’t work after 2DA anymore since Kagura is considered airborne after it.

- The Kagura did a 2DA combo in the corner and ended with super and it did 5.1k. I doubt that’s optimal though

 

Watched some more

 

- The height their launched from 6C is a lot lower than it is now. Like, pretty damn low. Not sure if he can 6DB to combo. But 2DA will probably be used after it mainly instead

- Midscreen Throw > 46A > 6C works. Just Throw > 6C works too but the timing looks pretty tight. The player did Throw > 46A > 6C > 2DA > 6DA > 5DC > 28C. Did 3.8k I think. 

- Corner Throw > 5C/6C combos

[FatalCounter]

I only hope 6C still combo with 6DB in the corner at least. For 6C combo into 2DA can be a buff for midscreen combos since we dont have 2DA > 46B anymore. It would be so sad to not use 6DB anymore except for mixups. Hopefully 2DA > 46B will work in the corner. 

[Danke]

LOL no boom after 2da? If you can't combo off it while staying safe with stance cancel or something he lost overhead only to have his other overhead become an unsafe gimmick.

[Surf]

I only hope 6C still combo with 6DB in the corner at least. For 6C combo into 2DA can be a buff for midscreen combos since we dont have 2DA > 46B anymore. It would be so sad to not use 6DB anymore except for mixups. Hopefully 2DA > 46B will work in the corner. 

 

It wont matter in the corner. He cant do 2DA > 46B at all because he's considered airborne. 

 

LOL no boom after 2da? If you can't combo off it while staying safe with stance cancel or something he lost overhead only to have his other overhead become an unsafe gimmick.

 

If they block 2DA and you stance cancel pretty sure Kagura is just going to be hanging there in the air. Anything after will probably just get CH for free because he'll have to stance > land > do stance normal. They'll be out of blockstun well before then. So 6A cant be combo'd and you most likely die if they block 2DA

[Dazardz]

If they block 2DA and you stance cancel pretty sure Kagura is just going to be hanging there in the air. Anything after will probably just get CH for free because he'll have to stance > land > do stance normal. They'll be out of blockstun well before then. So 6A cant be combo'd and you most likely die if they block 2DA

 

Whyyyyyyy!!! Where is the mixup now!? And I mean the safe mixup!

[-Seo]

Talked about this mix-up a few pages back and I finally got a chance to record it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdEUHTJtbpM

 

Upon hindsight though, I don't recommend going for this much at all really, delay tech will destroy it, and any half decent player will catch on eventually. Untill I or someone else can find a way to deal with delay tech, this is nothing more than a gimmick. Sorry for the sloppy editing too, I'm much too lazy when it comes to that, haha.

[Surf]

That's actually really interesting. Crossup 2DC in the corner is a fat starter too. Leads into 5.6k meterless. The safe jump may have more use in 1.1 since his corner confirms will most likely be shorter. But I'm unsure how he would procure the 6DB since I don't think it will combo after 2DA any longer

[-Seo]

That's actually really interesting. Crossup 2DC in the corner is a fat starter too. Leads into 5.6k meterless. The safe jump may have more use in 1.1 since his corner confirms will most likely be shorter. But I'm unsure how he would procure the 6DB since I don't think it will combo after 2DA any longer

 

Max I've gotten from 2DC corner starter is 7.2k I think, 75 meter though, but it feels damn good to hit, haha.

 

But yeah, I doubt this will work come 1.1 because of exactly what you stated, figured I may as well share though.

[Surf]

6C hits a lot lower now so 6DB probably wont hit. As it just about hits from 6C as it is now. If you delay it even for a bit too long it'll probably whiff. No 6C > 6DB means he wont be able to do max damage super ender which involved that route. They really must have not liked him getting the damage he was getting. Plus midscreen extenders like 46B > 6C is botched. Not that he can do 2DA > 46B anymore anyway. Need some combo videos soon. 

[-Seo]

Talked about this mix-up a few pages back and I finally got a chance to record it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdEUHTJtbpM

 

Upon hindsight though, I don't recommend going for this much at all really, delay tech will destroy it, and any half decent player will catch on eventually. Untill I or someone else can find a way to deal with delay tech, this is nothing more than a gimmick. Sorry for the sloppy editing too, I'm much too lazy when it comes to that, haha.

 

So, I've been messing around a little more with dealing with delay techs, and I'd like to think I have a small idea that could work, but I'm a little unsure at the second.

 

If you throw a B orb instead, just after they hit the corner, it'll stay closer to you for a longer period of time than an A orb would. You can react to them delay teching or emergency teching. If they delay tech, you can sit in 5D stance, and react to a neutral, forward or back roll. If they roll out of the corner, they roll into the orb, and you can easily 5DC them back into the corner, get a small combo and oki again. If they neutral tech you can meaty 5DA them, which will catch mash and upback, and beat a few supers/reversals (it's good to buffer flash kick during the stance, if 5DA clashes with certain things (Jin's D DP) you can catch him out on that with flash kick). If they roll into the corner, you get a command grab for free.

 

Again, some characters have easy ways out of this, and it's still not quite the best option there is, but it's sorta something!

[Surf]

It would probably be best to go into the B orb route when they start trying to delay tech or disrespect.the initial setup after a couple uses

[-Seo]

Yeah. Honestly the biggest problem I have with this, is how telegraphed it is. If you throw A orb, they can react and delay tech. If you throw B orb, they can react and emergency tech. Granted, if they emegerncy tech and use a decently ranged normal, you can still block, and they'll hit the orb. It'll do one hit, with next to no hitstun, and still put you in blockstun, but I just found that a little funny. I'll look more into this over the weekend though, I really think there's something here (even if It may not work come 1.1)

[Surf]

I'll experiment with it too tomorrow when I get a new pad. I think there's something there too. I still think Kagura's oki and setups are still largely unexplored. I was going to make a video primer on combo routes and setups but once I saw the 1.1 changes I didnt see much of a point

 

 

Saw on a stream that 6C > 6DB does indeed work. Thankfully

[msasbaly]

why don't you just ignore throwing any orb? I mean if they spot the gimmick by you throwing an orb, you can just confuse them by not throwing any and still do the gimmick

[Dazardz]

If you don't throw an orb, it becomes easier to disrespect. A orb shortens the recovery of 5DC, giving you more time to mixup the opponent techs. Much more mashable I guess.

[-Seo]

Not throwing the orb does still give you the safe jump, but there's nothing really there to threaten them in the case of the A orb mixup, or B orb shutting down most tech options. At that point, it would've just been safer to go with the more damaging and rewarding 2DB>Orb oki route. Granted that isn't bad, it's solid damage and alright oki.

[Dazardz]

Man I thought they destroyed Kagura in the patch, but from the combos and videos I have seen, he doesn't look that bad. And OD 28D is just... yessss

[FatalCounter]

Man I thought they destroyed Kagura in the patch, but from the combos and videos I have seen, he doesn't look that bad. And OD 28D is just... yessss

This, You should have believed me. I am an "Old" Fighting game player and a mathmaniac, I know how nerfs look like lol. I may take your statement as my profile signature if I find how to do it.  

 

Edit: I am was looking at Kagura frame data and changes. In BBCP 1.1 6A is still a lvl 4 move with 22F startup, 19F of recovery and 27F of hitstun.  That leaves us to +8 (27 - 19 = 8) on hit and we might be able to 1F link with 5B or 2F link with 2A if we are close enough. 3C connects with CH 6A even in our home version. My point is I think it is possible to combo from 6A without RC, at least it should be tested.

 

Take Jin 6A for instance, it has 23F of hitstun and 22F of recovery now (it was 20 before the patch) and it is +1 hit. (23 - 22 = 1). Hazama 6A is neutral on hit since it has 17F of hitstun and 17F of recovery.  

 

That would make sense for me. ArcSys can't give us a raw 6A with this character. Still salty about it  though.

[FatalCounter]

Yo, Reaper you are playing Relius even Jin now? Come on man, need to focus on Kagura and Amane maybe or Nu-13. I think Amane is better in this version. And why are you hating my Mu-12. She is so sexy, right?

[-Seo]

So, I've been messing around a little more with dealing with delay techs, and I'd like to think I have a small idea that could work, but I'm a little unsure at the second.

 

If you throw a B orb instead, just after they hit the corner, it'll stay closer to you for a longer period of time than an A orb would. You can react to them delay teching or emergency teching. If they delay tech, you can sit in 5D stance, and react to a neutral, forward or back roll. If they roll out of the corner, they roll into the orb, and you can easily 5DC them back into the corner, get a small combo and oki again. If they neutral tech you can meaty 5DA them, which will catch mash and upback, and beat a few supers/reversals (it's good to buffer flash kick during the stance, if 5DA clashes with certain things (Jin's D DP) you can catch him out on that with flash kick). If they roll into the corner, you get a command grab for free.

 

Again, some characters have easy ways out of this, and it's still not quite the best option there is, but it's sorta something!

 

And this set-up in video form.

 

Still gimmicky as all hell I'm afraid

[Danke]

Level 4 attack on a crouching opponent is 21 frames of hitstun, the move is currently like +2 on hit from what I've tested in game(don't trust the frame data at all) so it will become +4, you are way off unless this move is non standard attack level (I hope you are right)