Chrono Phantasma Story Discussion [fun tentatively allowed again]

[LeDom]

1 more

 

Mori mentioned that BB was intended to be a trilogy, but the third game was too big so they had to split it into two. BB4 is all but 

guaranteed at this point.

In that case, would it be far-fetched to expect Blazblue 4 to be Chrono Phantasma 2 except that instead of just being a balanced re-release, it will also be the last part of story mode?

[Zedar90]

In that case, would it be far-fetched to expect Blazblue 4 to be Chrono Phantasma 2 except that instead of just being a balanced re-release, it will also be the last part of story mode?

I don't believe there will be a CPII or a Extend, since neither the Arcade update or the Vita version is named CPII.

 

I would guess that Arc will jump straight to BB4, since they will likely not do the same as they did with CP, replace all stages and and remix the BGM.

The Master Unit and Embryo is over still in the sky over Ibukido, so the plot of BB4 will likely still be around that area, and a New stage here and there.

[Toxin45]

I don't believe there will be a CPII or a Extend, since neither the Arcade update or the Vita version is named CPII.

 

I would guess that Arc will jump straight to BB4, since they will likely not do the same as they did with CP, replace all stages and and remix the BGM.

The Master Unit and Embryo is over still in the sky over Ibukido, so the plot of BB4 will likely still be around that area, and a New stage here and there.

 

Like what they did with the first CS?

[churchblue]

Noel is the only person that can "kill" Izanami as she is the God Slayer. Am I correct?

[kylehyde]

Noel is the only person that can "kill" Izanami as she is the God Slayer. Am I correct?

 

 

 

Didn't Rachel tell Ragna that Izanami cannot be killed? She made that fact quite clear, If Noel could kill her I think she would of said so.

 

Saya's body can be destroyed though, I believe anyone powerful enough could do that.

[heavymetalmixer]

Didn't Rachel tell Ragna that Izanami cannot be killed? She made that fact quite clear, If Noel could kill her I think she would of said so.

 

Saya's body can be destroyed though, I believe anyone powerful enough could do that.

 

And even if it could be destroyed, I don't think Ragna would like the idea.

[Narroo]

Here's one thing I noticed:

 

When Ragna is in prison Ratchel tells the story about the poor maiden that's been locked away and needs to be saved.  The whole bit about "rewriting The World" makes it sound as though Ratchel is talking about Amaterasu. 

 

At the end of Chrono Phantasma Nu get's stuck into Take Mizuchi and Ragna decides to save her, apparently referencing Ratchel's story.  But that raises a question:

 

Was Ratchel's story about Nu?  Or is there a link between Nu and Amaterasu?  Or perhaps Ragna saved the wrong broad?

[mAc Chaos]

It could have also been Izanami herself.

[kylehyde]

Here's one thing I noticed:

 

When Ragna is in prison Ratchel tells the story about the poor maiden that's been locked away and needs to be saved.  The whole bit about "rewriting The World" makes it sound as though Ratchel is talking about Amaterasu. 

 

At the end of Chrono Phantasma Nu get's stuck into Take Mizuchi and Ragna decides to save her, apparently referencing Ratchel's story.  But that raises a question:

 

Was Ratchel's story about Nu?  Or is there a link between Nu and Amaterasu?  Or perhaps Ragna saved the wrong broad?

 

What also got me about that is that when Rachel was telling the story it was sort of just for Celica and Noel's ears. The fact that Ragna was there didn't matter. So I'm thinking, is Ragna the hero in the story? I mean we can assume that he is because of him being the main character, but maybe it's actually Jin. Rachel did mention at the end that Jin won't die since he's the hero. Now I don't know if that's just the English translation or if she says the same thing in Japanese.

 

It just felt kind of silly that Ragna automatically thought that he needed to save Nu because of the story he overheard from Rachel. It's looks to me that Ragna is not someone who will save but who needs to be saved.

[Narroo]

What also got me about that is that when Rachel was telling the story it was sort of just for Celica and Noel's ears. The fact that Ragna was there didn't matter. So I'm thinking, is Ragna the hero in the story? I mean we can assume that he is because of him being the main character, but maybe it's actually Jin. Rachel did mention at the end that Jin won't die since he's the hero. Now I don't know if that's just the English translation or if she says the same thing in Japanese.

 

It just felt kind of silly that Ragna automatically thought that he needed to save Nu because of the story he overheard from Rachel. It's looks to me that Ragna is not someone who will save but who needs to be saved.

I fairly sure the story WAS for Ragna.  Rathcel was just being Ratchel and couldn't bring herself to tell Ragna anything important in a direct or respectful way.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Yea, and the story itself is what set Ragna on his path to find a reason to fight in the first place.

[Luminos564]

Yea, and the story itself is what set Ragna on his path to find a reason to fight in the first place.

 

And it all came right back to bite him in the ass. Hard. Just ask Jin and Noel. Well, maybe just Noel.

 

So I gotta say it, Bloodedge being CP timeline Ragna makes no sense to me. Why do I say this? Because Dark War-era Celica recognizes him from that time. If Bloodedge is CP Ragna and the only other Ragna is the Dark War Black Beast, then how could Celica have known CP Ragna beforehand if CP is the first time he is ever technically sent back to the Phase Shift novels? Maybe I'm making this more complicated than it is, but I just plain can't wrap my head around it.

[kylehyde]

Yea, and the story itself is what set Ragna on his path to find a reason to fight in the first place.

 

Really? It was the story that got Ragna thinking like that. I always thought it was just cause Celica was suppressing his Azure causing him to be able to think clearly. I think he says so as much himself.

 

I fairly sure the story WAS for Ragna.  Rathcel was just being Ratchel and couldn't bring herself to tell Ragna anything important in a direct or respectful way.

 

Thing is everything Rachel says has an air of truth to it when she is speaking seriously. So when she said that it's a good thing Noel and Celica where together since they were the people she was looking for, I believed she really was just looking for them. She does troll Ragna but it's always fairly obvious when she does. Because she's very cheeky and condescending when speaking to him. In this case she just wanted him to get the fuck out of the conversation that had nothing to do with him. That's how I saw it anyway.

 

 

And it all came right back to bite him in the ass. Hard. Just ask Jin and Noel. Well, maybe just Noel.

 

So I gotta say it, Bloodedge being CP timeline Ragna makes no sense to me. Why do I say this? Because Dark War-era Celica recognizes him from that time. If Bloodedge is CP Ragna and the only other Ragna is the Dark War Black Beast, then how could Celica have known CP Ragna beforehand if CP is the first time he is ever technically sent back to the Phase Shift novels? Maybe I'm making this more complicated than it is, but I just plain can't wrap my head around it.

 

I get what your saying and I have no clue.

[mAc Chaos]

And it all came right back to bite him in the ass. Hard. Just ask Jin and Noel. Well, maybe just Noel.

 

So I gotta say it, Bloodedge being CP timeline Ragna makes no sense to me. Why do I say this? Because Dark War-era Celica recognizes him from that time. If Bloodedge is CP Ragna and the only other Ragna is the Dark War Black Beast, then how could Celica have known CP Ragna beforehand if CP is the first time he is ever technically sent back to the Phase Shift novels? Maybe I'm making this more complicated than it is, but I just plain can't wrap my head around it.

I haven't finished the story yet but the Ragna Celica meets is supposed to be from CT.

[Luminos564]

I haven't finished the story yet but the Ragna Celica meets is supposed to be from CT.

 

Wait, how does that work? So there were ultimately 3 Ragnas involved? 2 from CT, with one becoming the Black Beast (since the fusion can't be undone until someone physically separates Nu and Ragna from within) and the other to become "Bloodedge" while CP Ragna becomes "Bloodedge" as well? And curiously, performs the exact same actions as a CT Ragna who originally became Bloodedge would? Ugh, I hate time-travel. This is downright bananas.

[mAc Chaos]

I'm not sure. Maybe someone who read Phase Shift can fill us in.

The way I understood it was like this:

Ragna and Nu form the Black Beast and go back in time. This is the same timeline where Jin goes back to become Hakumen. That's what we thought as of CT, but in Phase Shift we learn that somehow Ragna separated from the Black Beast and got amnesia, along with having his right arm and eye disabled. Then while he's back there, he meets Celica and does the stuff we're seeing in the Six Heroes path, until he eventually causes the Black Beast to go dormant by combining with it again, after leaving things behind for Jubei.

I'm not sure where CP Ragna comes into it yet. I just got up to the part where he's about to go back in time... so maybe he is Bloodedge after all.

[Toxin45]

I'm not sure. Maybe someone who read Phase Shift can fill us in.

The way I understood it was like this:

Ragna and Nu form the Black Beast and go back in time. This is the same timeline where Jin goes back to become Hakumen. That's what we thought as of CT, but in Phase Shift we learn that somehow Ragna separated from the Black Beast and got amnesia, along with having his right arm and eye disabled. Then while he's back there, he meets Celica and does the stuff we're seeing in the Six Heroes path, until he eventually causes the Black Beast to go dormant by combining with it again, after leaving things behind for Jubei.

I'm not sure where CP Ragna comes into it yet. I just got up to the part where he's about to go back in time... so maybe he is Bloodedge after all.

Yeah he was.

[Luminos564]

Ragna and Nu form the Black Beast and go back in time. This is the same timeline where Jin goes back to become Hakumen. That's what we thought as of CT, but in Phase Shift we learn that somehow Ragna separated from the Black Beast and got amnesia, along with having his right arm and eye disabled. Then while he's back there, he meets Celica and does the stuff we're seeing in the Six Heroes path, until he eventually causes the Black Beast to go dormant by combining with it again, after leaving things behind for Jubei.

 

Wait a minute. Let's assume this is how it goes and that a CT Ragna was separated at one point from the Black Beast and he is the one Celica met. But then, where does CP Ragna fall under? I don't recall Celica ever mentioning there being 2 "Ragnas" running around in her time. CP Ragna is Bloodedge, that much I can accept. But if at the same time another Ragna was separated from the Black Beast, where did he go then?

[Alpha to Omega]

Wait a minute. Let's assume this is how it goes and that a CT Ragna was separated at one point from the Black Beast and he is the one Celica met. But then, where does CP Ragna fall under? I don't recall Celica ever mentioning there being 2 "Ragnas" running around in her time. CP Ragna is Bloodedge, that much I can accept. But if at the same time another Ragna was separated from the Black Beast, where did he go then?

 

 

There were only two Ragna's in Celica's time, CP Ragna (Bloodedge) and CT Ragna (who merged with Nu and became the body of the Black Beast). CT Ragna was never separated from the Black Beast and only regained some of his consciousness seconds before Hakumen chopped off his head. Everybody assumed that Bloodedge was CT Ragna when Phase 0 was released because CP had yet to reveal it wasn't. 

[BlackYakuzu94]

So basically, Ragna from CT did successfully merge with Nu and the Ragna that was follow in Phase 0 was in fact, CP Ragna. Ragna went inside the black beast and held it off for a year, and from what was told, had a conversation with Nu inside before returning in Phase Shift 4, and then going back to the CT timeline....right?

[Luminos564]

There were only two Ragna's in Celica's time, CP Ragna (Bloodedge) and CT Ragna (who merged with Nu and became the body of the Black Beast). CT Ragna was never separated from the Black Beast and only regained some of his consciousness seconds before Hakumen chopped off his head. Everybody assumed that Bloodedge was CT Ragna when Phase 0 was released because CP had yet to reveal it wasn't. 

 

So then how come Celica knew Bloodedge beforehand? Matter of fact how could Jubei know the man from as far back as CT before even the events of CP took place? If Bloodedge did not exist until CP Ragna was sent back in time to the Dark War era via Rabbit, how can there be a Bloodedge at all in previous loops if they were not broken until loop #725?

[Alpha to Omega]

So basically, Ragna from CT did successfully merge with Nu and the Ragna that was follow in Phase 0 was in fact, CP Ragna. Ragna went inside the black beast and held it off for a year, and from what was told, had a conversation with Nu inside before returning in Phase Shift 4, and then going back to the CT timeline....right?

 

Basically, but he had a conversation with Celica and killed Nu inside the Black Beast before leaving with Rachel. He had to kill Nu so the Six Heroes could kill the Black Beast's body due to the lifelink.

[Zedar90]

CT Ragna have always become the Black Beast with Nu, that is how it always has been. To kill the Black Beast during the Dark War, the six heroes killed the body(Ragna from CT) and Bloodedge (Ragna from CP) killed the Heart(Nu) from the inside. Ragna even says in the Phase 0 LN that he came from the year 2200, and when he first met with Celica inside the Black Beast, his question to her was "when" she came from, not where and it's the same Ragna as Bloodedge since he knew their promise and where the first place they met were at.

 

Remember Rachel's story, there is a beginning, and there is a end. Everything between is chaos. Something like In the beginning Bloodedge appears and in the ending the world dies. How Ragna comes to the past is inside the chaos part.

 

There has always been a Paradox, however Izanami even says that when Rachel sent Ragna back in time, the time-line and phenomena has been fixed, it can no longer be changed. Essentially, a stable time-loop have been established,

[Toxin45]

CT Ragna have always become the Black Beast with Nu, that is how it always has been. To kill the Black Beast during the Dark War, the six heroes killed the body(Ragna from CT) and Bloodedge (Ragna from CP) killed the Heart(Nu) from the inside. Ragna even says in the Phase 0 LN that he came from the year 2200, and when he first met with Celica inside the Black Beast, his question to her was "when" she came from, not where and it's the same Ragna as Bloodedge since he knew their promise and where the first place they met were at.

 

Remember Rachel's story, there is a beginning, and there is a end. Everything between is chaos. Something like In the beginning Bloodedge appears and in the ending the world dies. How Ragna comes to the past is inside the chaos part.

 

There has always been a Paradox, however Izanami even says that when Rachel sent Ragna back in time, the time-line and phenomena has been fixed, it can no longer be changed. Essentially, a stable time-loop have been established,

So we are gonna have anthor time loop in the last game? Or was that all related to Phase Shift and CT?

[Narroo]

Maybe the 100 year loop isn't limited to Kagutsuchi, but rather the destruction of the Earth?