[CP] Tsubaki vs Jin

[Kiba]

Discuss the Jin matchup here! Dat Hizangeki.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Kiba

[Zouf]

Any tips against Jin? Just played 50 matches against one, and this matchup seems impossible to me. Every single of his moves beat our moves. His 5C even beat our 5B, wtf is that. I even got beaten by a j.B, dear god.

His j.2C is godlike, can't antiair that shit.

I'm kinda lost against him tbh, i don't see how we can beat his neutral game.

[Zouf]

Ok i messed around in the training mode and found that our 3C beats Jin's 5C at anytime, it never trades. Can be very useful.

[Kiba]

Any tips against Jin? Just played 50 matches against one, and this matchup seems impossible to me. Every single of his moves beat our moves. His 5C even beat our 5B, wtf is that. I even got beaten by a j.B, dear god.

His j.2C is godlike, can't antiair that shit.

I'm kinda lost against him tbh, i don't see how we can beat his neutral game.

I kinda got frustrated trying to AA his j.2C too. He just kept getting CH.

I just charge in neutral, but when I see that he's about to get into his 2D range I stop charging & use that time to make a judgment on what to do next. Dash 2D can lose if you dashed towards him, and remember he'll be crouching so use the opportunity to get a better combo. Ofc he could just dash 5C, so it may be a good idea to do something like, dash barrier, so that if he does do 2D, you can still punish (2D should whiff), and if he initiates an attack, you'll block it. If he's throwing ice swords at you I try not to block them, I try to dash over them or get through it with [4]6D > 236D. Attempting to dash over them can lose to Fubuki. I don't really play the poking game with Jin at neutral.

Speaking of charging at neutral, it becomes a little riskier when he has meter because he can just do full screen ice car. Against certain Jins I deliberately charge in small bursts to bait this and punish. Remember his ice cars are now a low.

Jin also has his usual gimmicks which you need to watch out for too. Like when he freezes you in the he could cross you up, go for a throw and whatnot. He can even get cross you up in the corner after doing a 5B because of the vacuum effect it has. Jin doesn't really have much to offer in terms of pressure or mixup outside of heat or once he's actually got himself going so you need to be attentive.

[Airk]

I guess I need to try more 3C, because this matchup is ridiculous otherwise. =/  I can barely even punish the stupid ice car now that it pushes him back so far out of reach.

 

I hate this game. -_-

[TheGreatReptar]

Use 5C instead of 5A since it has better range. Ice car is -8.

[Airk]

5C will reach without a dash? Good to know. I need to training mode practice this, but I need about 1 billion hours in training mode and it's kinda discouraging. :P

 

Also, did Jin's 5D get a bigger hitbox or something?  It seems like it's hitting me at STUPID range now (like, pretty much covering the 2D 'blindspot area'.).

[Airk]

So I tried punishing Ice Car with 5C in training mode, and it seems like a lot of the time he's too far away for it to hit.

 

Dash 5A works for a crappy punish, but even that is pretty tight on the timing.

 

Without IBing this (as much for the reduced pushback as for the added frame advantage) this move seems stupidly hard to punish in a meaningful way.

[Errol]

kinda worse than that, if you try to 5a punish and he's not in range of 5a you can get whiff punished. 

[Airk]

Oh goodie.  Another item to add to my list of "things that were too good for Tsubaki to have that other characters who are better than her get." (P.S. **** Jin's jump loop combo.)

 

Time to go learn to IB this thing.

[chzchan]

What do you do against Jin's j.2C crossup when under pressure? Do you just deal with it? 2C does not work due to hitboxes and DP does not work because he is directly above/behind you, so it whiffs.

 

This is especially deadly in the corner after an IAD jump cancel after his 5B vacuum and I have no idea what to do.

[zaeris]

I guess you could space your 2c to auto correct by forward one step then hit 2c, other AA with j.a

[Airk]

You might be able to dash under it or backdash it? j.2C doesn't have a very large horizontal hitbox.

[Monarch]

Since it was brought up recently, anything new on neutral?

I personally play the fireball/ice sword game with him now that we have a faster projectile. I was thinking about 5B > 5D > 5B > 5D > repeat in neutral to get in, but then 5C reminded me who's in charge. So.. what, do we have to play passively or can we rush in?

[Airk]

This is a TERRIBLE matchup to try 5B > 5D > 5B in, because Jin's 5C is just as fast as our 5B.  5B > jc is better if you think he's going to push 5C in response.  It might even be worth trying something silly like 5B > 5D > forward jump for confusion value.  Maybe even just flat out 5B > 6C, though probably not since this will lose to 5B mash (**** our crappy normals!). 5B > 6B (basically safe unless he jumps or DPs) will get you some ground.  5B > 3C is probably worth trying if you have the meter.  5B > jc > j.236A?  Honestly, for ME, the hard part of this matchup is getting into 5B range.

 

Anyway, as far as I can tell, the only way you beat Jin is you just out-footsie him - dash in when he's doing a 2D.  Jump forward when he's doing a 5C, etc.  Don't get predictable.  Do try all kinds of random crap because as soon as he has a good guess about what you are trying, you're screwed.

[zaeris]

there are offensive OD option to punish most thing outside of 5d.

2d, 6d, 6b and 6c can be punish with a time OD, clearly it should be use the closer you are to corner. while the gap are harder for some but at least its in part visually easier to see.

[chzchan]

I would be pretty scared to Od during a 6D. Even though it isn't active for days like 5D, 6 active frames is a pretty good deterrent from doing an OD reversal.

[zaeris]

the timing for 6d isnt hard but it can be visually deceptive, and OD invul frame is around 15 frames so you do have quite a few reversal frames to try. just record jin doing 5c>6d or something and feel the timing for yourself. 6b is harder because the gap is smaller where if you fail you will just get a burst lol.

[crimsonstardust]

New to playing Tsubaki, can she challenge Jin's 5B at all? A lot of what I've been reading here addresses how to deal with his 5C but not much on 5B, cause I always seem to get beaten in the footsies department in this match.

[Airk]

His 5B isn't really anything very special - I mean, it's quick, but it doesn't have the range that Tsubaki's 5B does, so most Jin players seem to use it more as a pressure tool, due to the two hits and the gatling options.

 

If you're getting hit by it a lot in neutral, you might want to try using 5A more, because most likely, if you're in range to be hit by his 5B, you're in range to hit him back with 5A.  And while a trade won't work in your favor, 5A is faster, so with luck, you'll score a CH.

 

Make no mistake though - this is a tough match to play footsies in.

[crimsonstardust]

I was afraid to hear footsies are gonna be tough in this match up. Ok I'll keep in mind what you said about 5A.