Bullet vs. Kokonoe

[Prototype909]

Discuss the match-up here. Feel free to link videos as long as they're relevant. Stay on topic.

[Digital Masta]

https://t.co/rY9qR4NwJL

A twitter conversation got me to think about this. Bullet can punish all of Kokonoe's fireball supers on reaction with 3C or her DP command grab.

Use 3C as it puts u in a better position to dodge the A fireball.

[Emba]

Bullet doesn't really have to think about punishing Kokonoes fireball super at all. She can just block and 5b-5c-5d into whatever combo she wants. The 5d will projectile invuln during the travel and be fully invuln through the animation.

[Phones01]

I can't test this atm but can someone test if bullet's miquelet capture (41236C) projectile invulnerablity can be used to escape black hole unblockable setups?

[Mr.Minionman]

Can't. iirc, the setup is meaty, and Bullet doesn't get proj invuln until frame 5.

[IndigoNovember]

As far as I can tell from briefly testing it: Miquelet Capture, Lock-On (Drive), Cutting Shear (623B), Serpentine Assault (720A), Hard Kill Bringer (Astral Heat), Heat the Beat (Overdrive) all lose to the Black Hole. Guess there's nothing to do but take the combo OTL .

[Phones01]

Damn that sux welp just gotta beat koko down before she can set it up I guess.

[Emba]

Damn that sux welp just gotta beat koko down before she can set it up I guess.

Just save your burst for it. Bullet can pressure Kokonoe all day long since she has no reversal without spending the 50 meter she needs for the setup.

The hardest part is getting in before level 1 or 2 (surprise surprise). Once your in, she hangs onto her meter at her own peril.

[Prototype909]

22C is a frame 1 invuln teleport, unless you read it and hit the right buttons she can still use it to get out.

Also if escaping the black hole setups was as easy as 'saving your burst' Kokonoe wouldn't be nearly as problematic. We're talking about a character who hits for 4k+ with corner carry from mid-screen, you can't just save your burst all the time.

[SoWL]

I don't find her teleport to be too troublesome, actually. Yeah, it gets her out of the corner, but you can still catch her on its cooldown, even if you were mashing buttons on her wake-up. Or maybe I'm just missing something way too obvious here.

The super-fireball is a much better reversal that does every single thing you'd want from a reversal, but it requires meter. Bullet might have the means to play around it (I'll have to test the tech in that video by myself before calling it completely legit), but it still worries me more than the black hole.

[Digital Masta]

Kokonoe can't move during the black hole right? Just keep using 3c it keeps Bullet away from getting sucked in I believe. I didn't test it that much. But you slowly creep towards Kokonoe with it and catch her on her recovery. If you're close enough

[RifleAvenger]

Kokonoe can't move during the black hole right? Just keep using 3c it keeps Bullet away from getting sucked in I believe. I didn't test it that much. But you slowly creep towards Kokonoe with it and catch her on her recovery. If you're close enough

The problem with that is that any set-up where Kokonoe is going to use the Black Hole, she's going to do it off of meaty 22B (lightning bolt) or some other situation where you're stuck blocking. So you'll just get hit since the Black Hole will appear right on top of you, and 3C won't come out fast enough for you to escape.

Most escapes from the black hole setup involve characters with supers with both forward momentum and invulnerability on startup (Bang's Daifunka, Yukikaze). Or Azrael, since he can just growler the setup.

[Emba]

You give that teleport too much credit. It's not terribly useful for escaping pressure since the recovery on it is enough that you can wiff a 5b through it and still get the counter hit punish.

[IndigoNovember]

Do we have a meterless position reversal combo that can be done when punishing teleport?

[Phones01]

Any ch 5b combo should work. 5b ch can also go into 6c for max damage meterless iirc.

[Phones01]

im not at home atm but after watching this vid mainly the last set up kokonoe does I was wondering if that escape option can also be applied to bullet. can anyone test this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk2m1cGX3tY

[Loli Bacon]

im not at home atm but after watching this vid mainly the last set up kokonoe does I was wondering if that escape option can also be applied to bullet. can anyone test this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk2m1cGX3tY

The person setting up the blackhole for Kokonoe mis-spaced the setup. Done properly, it can't be rolled.

[Phones01]

ah ok thanks for letting me know. is the spacing character specific by any chance?

[Loli Bacon]

ah ok thanks for letting me know. is the spacing character specific by any chance?

Yes, in a sense. There's a spacing that catches every roll attempt and forces the lightning to hit meaty, but there are character specific setups (Hakumen/Jin specifically) where the lightning activates JUST to keep them from moving out, but doesn't force them to block it so they can't yukikaze it. Maybe if someone were to do this setup on Bullet, you could 41236x out of it, but I think the recovery on that move (miquelet capture, if I remember correctly?) is so much that you'd just get sucked into blackhole anyway. I can test it out today if you'd like.

EDIT: Doing Hakumen setup on bullet allows her to delay neutral tech SJ out.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Loli Bacon

[FallenWhite]

I don't find her teleport to be too troublesome, actually. Yeah, it gets her out of the corner, but you can still catch her on its cooldown, even if you were mashing buttons on her wake-up. Or maybe I'm just missing something way too obvious here.

The super-fireball is a much better reversal that does every single thing you'd want from a reversal, but it requires meter. Bullet might have the means to play around it (I'll have to test the tech in that video by myself before calling it completely legit), but it still worries me more than the black hole.

Considering the distance the teleport goes, I take it there's some reason you don't just go straight to 5D once the teleport starts, such as the cool-down being too short?

[WintySoSolo]

BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE you should be able to use a melty blood technique where you would input 5ABC on her wakeup.

5A would come out first(obviously)

if 5A hits, you'd get 5B on the cancel frame.

if 5A whiffs(due to teleport), you'd get 5C when it recovers(in MB you'd be doing this on the 5a whiff cancel frame) which would punish the teleport

video of the match where I did 5A whiff 5C and fatal'd a teleport

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYczdPI0r-k&t=1m10s

I don't do DLC so someone else would need to test this and see if it can be input this way(as an option select) or needs to be done on reaction.

Obviously you wouldn't go attempting to 5A her wakeup if she has meter to superball you.

[GcYoshi13]

BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE you should be able to use a melty blood technique where you would input 5ABC on her wakeup.

5A would come out first(obviously)

if 5A hits, you'd get 5B on the cancel frame.

if 5A whiffs(due to teleport), you'd get 5C when it recovers(in MB you'd be doing this on the 5a whiff cancel frame) which would punish the teleport

video of the match where I did 5A whiff 5C and fatal'd a teleport

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYczdPI0r-k&t=1m10s

I don't do DLC so someone else would need to test this and see if it can be input this way(as an option select) or needs to be done on reaction.

Obviously you wouldn't go attempting to 5A her wakeup if she has meter to superball you.

Do you piano 5ABC.

[WintySoSolo]

yeah basically

5A is 6 startup, 3 active, and 9 recovery, so 18 frames total

so you want to hit 5B on frames 7-9(you can hit it early due to 5f buffer)

and you want to hit 5C on frame 15-19(because of 5F buffer, inputting 5C on frame 15-18 will cause it to come out on frame 19, which is the frame where you finish recovering from 5A)

so yeah should be a pretty simple piano, don't need to do a fancy 1f slide from B~C like in melty

AGAIN THIS IS THEORY I CAN'T TEST THIS fuk dlc

in depth frame by frame to make sure there is no confusion

frame 0: 5A is input

frame 1-6: 5A startup

frame 7-9: 5A active, input 5B during this time

frame 10-14: 5A recovery, unable to input 5C(too early)

frame 15-18: 5A recovery, can buffer 5C

frame 19: return to neutral, can start 5C

the idea is:

if 5A is blocked, 5B comes out

if 5A whiffs(due to teleport), 5C comes out and hits FC

there is no frame data on the wiki for her(fuck dlc) otherwise this would be easy to say "yeah it works" so i need someone to test it ty ty

Edited January 20, 2014 by WintySoSolo

[FallenWhite]

Well, if you poke with a 5A/2B, you should be able to go to 5C on reaction, screw up the timing and it ends up blocked, and then ya still have the +1 to work from.

[GcYoshi13]

Well, if you poke with a 5A/2B, you should be able to go to 5C on reaction, screw up the timing and it ends up blocked, and then ya still have the +1 to work from.

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bullet_%28BBCP%29

Frame data says its +0 on block, unless it's wrong.