Persona 4: The Ultimax Ultra Suplex Hold Story Thread (spoilers)

[HoudiniJr100]

I'm pretty sure it's because of a report that might've been submitted by Naoto. Why else would the guy from Public Safety have already known that Naoto was a Persona user when he called her in to spy on Mitsuru?

true, but what if they heard the acount Dojima got from Yu (that subsequently got him holed up in the station)

[heavymetalmixer]

true, but what if they heard the acount Dojima got from Yu (that subsequently got him holed up in the station)

The detective (i don't remember his name, is the same guy that helps the team in P3) tells Mitsuru that the Police of the city talked about this "Personas and TV matter" and all the weird things that happened last year.

[kibakirain]

The detective (i don't remember his name, is the same guy that helps the team in P3) tells Mitsuru that the Police of the city talked about this "Personas and TV matter" and all the weird things that happened last year.

That's detective Kurosawa.

[Luminos564]

OK, I got something stuck in my head for a while and I'd like to hear people's opinion on this. So, from the look of things, Lizzie has a much more prominent role this time what with having an actual Arcade Mode story and that PerShoNa is not exactly pleased to see her mucking around. And since we recently learned that this is supposed to be the last entry in the Arena series, what exactly are the chances of Lizzie's quest to "save" P3MC/Makoto Yuuki being resolved here? Somehow, I doubt that Lizzie will go on to make an appearance in P5 (as much as I'd like for her to take the Protagonist role in that one) since I figure ATLUS likely wants to move away from P3/P4 now.

[Galm_II]

OK, I got something stuck in my head for a while and I'd like to hear people's opinion on this. So, from the look of things, Lizzie has a much more prominent role this time what with having an actual Arcade Mode story and that PerShoNa is not exactly pleased to see her mucking around. And since we recently learned that this is supposed to be the last entry in the Arena series, what exactly are the chances of Lizzie's quest to "save" P3MC/Makoto Yuuki being resolved here? Somehow, I doubt that Lizzie will go on to make an appearance in P5 (as much as I'd like for her to take the Protagonist role in that one) since I figure ATLUS likely wants to move away from P3/P4 now.

If this really will be the last Arena entry, we can expect solid conclusions.

About P5, we can expect some references and mentions, since P3/P4 made the most important impact on the series.

And yes, I want P3's MC free again, too. All those feelings and tears... Mostly tears.

[Luminos564]

If this really will be the last Arena entry, we can expect solid conclusions.

I hope so. Though I'll be a bit disappointed if there won't be any more Arena after this one.

About P5, we can expect some references and mentions, since P3/P4 made the most important impact on the series.

References are fine, but I would like for P5 to be its own entity. P3/P4 were undoubtedly the most successful of ATLUS' Persona games, but even they have an expiration date. Plus I'd like to see some new faces take up the mantle (unless they're adding in Lizzie in which case I foam at the mouth from joy).

And yes, I want P3's MC free again, too. All those feelings and tears... Mostly tears.

Note that him being "saved/free" does not equate to resurrection. There is still the threat of Erebus, though if Lizzie doesn't mind OHKO-ing it annually after she accomplishes her mission, then I there shouldn't be that much of a problem.

[Malcopunch]

You guys do realize that they never said Persona 4 Ultimax is the last in the series..but it will wrap up the storyline with Persona 4 Arena and most likely in the next game we will have the Persona 5 charcters as the main stars with some of the P4/P3 Charcters as fighters similar to how they did it in the first game

[Volt]

P4AU will wrap up P3, P4 and Arena storylines. Elizabeth will find something and may return to the Velvet Room in P5. Did Margaret actually leave the Velvet Room like Liz in P4?

[Koopa_Klawz]

P4AU will wrap up P3, P4 and Arena storylines. Elizabeth will find something and may return to the Velvet Room in P5. Did Margaret actually leave the Velvet Room like Liz in P4?

Doubt it. But she has been meeting with Yu in The Velvet Room without Igor so who knows what she's up to.

[Galm_II]

Igor's nose will still be the same, that's for sure.

[RWA Announcer]

Looks like I've hit some more paydirt, as someone on GameFAQS found all of Elizabeth's win quotes. Can't make heads or tails of most of them beyond her making a bullfighting reference in her quote to Shadow Labrys, but it looks like she's got unique quotes for Yosuke, Yu, Aigis, Yukari, Labrys, Shadow Labrys, Teddie, Akihiko, and whichever one of the Shos is her Arcade Boss, I'm assuming it's for regular Sho, and not MINAZUKI/PerShona, though. http://seesaawiki.jp/p4u_matome/d/P4U2%a1%a1%a5%a8%a5%ea%a5%b6%a5%d9%a5%b9%a1%a1%be%a1%a4%c1%a5%bb%a5%ea%a5%d5 However, one of the posters DID translate a couple of the generic ones and they reveal something VERY interesting.

"The time of my reunion is soon approaching!" and, "Forgive me, I seem to have gotten somewhat bored. If I proceed up this tower, my reunion with that boy from before should be waiting for me..." After she defeats Sho, she tells him that, "What you've managed to accomplish here is quite extraordinary indeed... The power you have from "being in solitude," that may be another form of it." She then says something about her "reunion" being 'imminent" and that she's, "proceeding towards the decisive battle." Looks like we're getting Makoto,

in some form at least. I hope I used those tags correctly, since this was a HypeBomb.

[Volt]

Looks like you hit the jackpot. And our predictions about Elizabeth's story are correct if this is true. Blue Hair may or may not be revived, but Elizabeth will reach the end of her story, wrapping up P3 alongside it. Can you post the link with the translated quotes?

[RWA Announcer]

Actually Volt, unless you want me to give you the link to sora364's post on GameFAQS, which just has the two generic quotes and her specific quote to Sho, all of which I've already posted, there is no such link. I tried to put the quotes written in Japanese through Google Translate, but outside of her saying something about bullfighting to Shadow Labrys, and comparing Yukari's Featherman/Power Ranger outfit to some ancient monk, they all seemed really garbled and I couldn't make heads or tails of them, but you guys are welcome to try. As for how sora came upon that, I don't have a GameFAQS account to ask, but I know Flux does.

[DeathTurn]

As for how sora came upon that, I don't have a GameFAQS account to ask, but I know Flux does.

The translations are from Anons over at Persona General.

http://fireden.net/4chan/vg/60971016

CTRL+F is your friend.

It should be noted that contextually, she is referring to Sho. After defeating Shadow Teddie, her arcade quote indicates something regarding a boy without a Persona. Just after the next match, she states:

"Forgive me, but I seem to have gotten somewhat bored. If I proceed up this tower, my reunion with that boy from before should be waiting for me..."

Also, there are 8 rounds in the Arcade Mode. Elizabeth's "decisive battle" quote was just after her 7th round: referring to Sho. The absence of proper context led us to the spurious belief her words referenced

Makoto.

I think we all jumped the gun a bit assuming it was

Makoto

; a glance at the Persona General discussion should give you an idea. The word "reunion" definitely threw us off more than anything.

[FluxWaveZ]

Yeah, it would have been too blatant a hint to have been heard of just recently and it makes more sense that it's referring to Sho, anyways. I guess Liz desires to meet with him so much because she's intrigued by the power he derives from solitude.

[Malcopunch]

Yeah, it would have been too blatant a hint to have been heard of just recently and it makes more sense that it's referring to Sho, anyways. I guess Liz desires to meet with him so much because she's intrigued by the power he derives from solitude.

My guess is Liz wants to use the opposite form of that power to free Makoto. Actually maybe Elziabeith might end up being sort of a villain because i have a feeling her plan to bringing back Makoto but not be all good but she desperately wants to see him again at any cost. Kinda like Homura and Madoka from the 3rd Madoka Magica Movie

Also..predictions

1. They will explain who the Velvet Room Attendents are ( Are they human or something else)

2. There will be a force even worse than Erebus

3. One of the Persona 3 members will die ( P4 Members are safe but i don't know about Persona 3..i could see Mitstru bite the bullet)

[RWA Announcer]

Oh wow! Sorry about that DeathTurn. Totally forgot about that place, since I'm new here and don't make it a point to delve into 4chan too often. Now I feel bad, since I don't usually derp this hard. Her referring to Sho and being interested in his "Power Of Solitude," just like she was so interested in Yu for being a carrier of the Wild Card before, DOES make much more sense though! The fact that this just came out now, when the game's been out in the arcades since November was always gnawing at me a bit, and that was why. It seemed so convincing at the time, but them at something that big this early wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. Oh well. Still interested to see her interactions with Sho. Given his bratiness, it could get pretty interesting.

[DeathTurn]

Oh wow! Sorry about that DeathTurn. Totally forgot about that place, since I'm new here and don't make it a point to delve into 4chan too often. Now I feel bad, since I don't usually derp this hard.

You didn't derp; consider it a blessing 4chan is foreign to you. I have only lurked Persona General because they are fairly good at getting new information, but beyond that... it is nothing more than disturbing, morally questionable, and totally not sexually deviant "discussion" of "waifus" and "best girls". Finding quality posts and productive discussion is like finding a needle in a goddamn haystack. It's a miracle I found the said translations to begin with.

Also interestingly enough (albeit somehow unsurprising) from what I have garnered from Sho's dialogue, he has no idea what the hell Elizabeth wants and why she is interfering. haha.

[Shadon1010]

Gonna throw in my two cents on the issue of Makoto coming back:

If you've played Mass Effects 1 through 3, one of the problems I think that was present in the writing was that the Reapers were built up to be an impossible force to overcome conventionally, and then what followed in Mass Effect 3 was that the Reapers were shown to be just tough, rather than invincible (see how Sovereign trashed an entire fleet single handedly yet thousands of Reapers didn't curbstomp several fleets). The previous two games set up the Reapers as an unstoppable force, and then what we saw did not match that build up, at least in my opinion, and it resulted in it being very underwhelming as a result. It short changed the audience in a nutshell.

I mention this because I fear this is the potential pitfall with Makoto being saved in the Persona franchise. Elizabeth's story in Arena established that this is a huge task that could take years, if not decades, hence why she suggests to Aigis that she might need her help as someone who is similarly not affected by aging or time. We have had the set up that makes it clear this objective, to save Makoto, is a massive undertaking. So the trap therefore is having Makoto be saved at the end of P4U2 without any consequences, as it will feel horribly underwhelming.

To alleviate this, there are two things Atlus could do in my opinion:

1) Don't have Makoto be saved in P4U2. Have the story give Elizabeth further clues or ideas on how to proceed, but leave him where he currently is as the cockblock shield between Erebus and Nyx.

2) Have Makoto be saved, but as I mentioned, have consequences for his revival. By that I mean, have someone replace him as the seal.

Of course, the possibility exists they'll just have him be saved and that'll be that, but I hope not as it'll just drain all of the weight and impact out of everything we've seen from Makoto's death onwards. Let there be consequences, or let it take more time to give it the satisfying payoff it deserves.

/2cents

[Strife]

2) Have Makoto be saved, but as I mentioned, have consequences for his revival. By that I mean, have someone replace him as the seal.

Now that you mention it, what if Elizabeth herself becomes the seal to save him? Or rather, what if she can do something to keep the seal there but take Makoto out? I mean, she IS a powerful entity after all.

I'd be cool with both, considering the second option is plausible enough.

[TekkamanArk]

Makoto? Who is Makoto? Wasn't the P3 main Minato?

[Shadon1010]

Well, let's consider the candidates. We have Yu and Aigis and neither of them will fulfil this role as they're main characters and we'd be back at square one, ie, "We gotta save them next!"

We have Elizabeth. This would make sense as she has pretty outright stated she would do anything for Makoto, so let's take "anything" to its extreme and consider that she might sacrifice herself to save him.

The other would be Persona-free Sho, but given we know next to nothing about him I offer this only as a "You never know" possibility.

Also, two other thoughts while I'm here:

- Where was it outright stated that Ikutski is likely not to be alive? All signs point to him or a very good copycat being behind a part of this plot, and I can totally see him working in the same way as Crow did from Guilty Gear.

- Here's hoping for P4U2 to have its own version of Highlander Assault Mode, with Yu (plus Izanagi-no-Okami) versus Erebus one on one. I'd be down with that.

EDIT:

Makoto? Who is Makoto? Wasn't the P3 main Minato?

Makoto is the name of the P3 Protagonist from the P3 movies. Minato I believe was from the manga. I'm going with Makoto rather than Minato as his canon name given Yu (Arena/Anime P4 Protag name) was chosen over Souji (Manga P4 Protag name), but we all know who I mean anyway.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Shadon1010

[Luminos564]

Please bear in mind that, while Lizzie IS a powerful entity on her own, Makoto effectively surpasses her since:

1. He as able to face and defeat her on his own (Yu might have done the same with Margaret or he might have had help, not sure which one ATLUS considers canon). It can also be argued that he's so far the single most powerful Persona-user given his particular circumstances and having obtained the Universe arcana (meaning he understands his place in life and reality as a whole).

2. Lizzie can one-shot-kill Erebus sure, but she can only strike it down once a year. Makoto has been holding him back every day for the last 3 years IIRC and has not let up once.

Personally, I'd love for Lizzie to find that alternate solution that does not end up with sacrificing herself or anyone else. Finding a replacement equal to Makoto's powers would be downright impossible at the moment anyway.

[TekkamanArk]

I have a question that may or may not be simple. Why aren't there more fire users here? I mean, the only fire people we have are Yukiko, Shadow Labrys, and Junpei. Aigis uses fire in like one move, but i'm not sure she counts there, and Elizabeth uses everything, so she's exempt too.

[DeathTurn]

To alleviate this, there are two things Atlus could do in my opinion:

1) Don't have Makoto be saved in P4U2. Have the story give Elizabeth further clues or ideas on how to proceed, but leave him where he currently is as the cockblock shield between Erebus and Nyx.

I can almost guarantee this will not happen due to its ambiguous and inconclusive implications. It is essentially a more fleshed out rendition of the The Answer's resolution, and only a very vocal minority will be satisfied with it. That minority being those who feel P3's ending will be "ruined" and feel resurrecting him would be an "asspull" or "poor writing." Though I find this perspective jarringly incoherent due to Makoto's messianic ethos, and how a revival was not so coyly foreshadowed from the beginning. His ultimate Persona is "Messiah" and the compendium reads:

"Appears before Judgment Day to save the virtuous. He is a universal figure, appearing in myths around the world. Many stories involve his death and rebirth."

He appeared on The Promised Day"/The Fall ("Judgment Day") to save humanity ("saves the virtuous"), merges with the universe and becomes the sole user of the Universe arcana ("is a universal figure"), has died ("his death"), but has yet to experience a "rebirth."

Not to mention he conquered death by sacrificing his soul and crucifying it to protect mankind's collective malice (or sin) lead them into everlasting destruction. I feel it is fairly palpable where this is headed.

If Atlus were planning on keeping him dead, they would have never bothered to revisit his story in P4 or expound even further in P4U. 9x out of 10, they are bringing him back. Either way, Makoto and Elizabeth's story will be wrapped out here, as it was confirmed this game will conclude all of these points.

Lastly, Atlus teased a character who they "could not name" that "the fans have certainly been hoping for" who will appear in P4U2/P4AU. A quick glance on 2ch swiftly reveals the #1 requested character among the Japanese fanbase is "Kitaro" (Makoto), with much discussion involving a revival. Followed very closely after him, is Adachi (who has been practically confirmed.)

2) Have Makoto be saved, but as I mentioned, have consequences for his revival. By that I mean, have someone replace him as the seal.

This is my prediction as well. Erebus was destroyed by Elizabeth in P4U, so Nyx will not burst through the door immediately after the seal is temporarily lifted. I can easily see "Malevolent Entity"

Nyarlathotep. Wait, is this even a spoiler?

being imprisoned as the seal (seeing as though he cannot die) as eternal punishment (pun intended.) How? The "miracle" we learned about in P4 and P4U that Elizabeth and the others will pull off.

or let it take more time to give it the satisfying payoff it deserves.

P3 released 8 years ago in Japan. ...How much more time do you want to wait? lol Thankfully, this game is tying up those loose ends. I in no way want this storyline apart of P5 or any future entries whatsoever. This is a seamless venue for it. :p