Stellarcircle5 Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Some people are seizing the opportunity to call for a Valkenhayn ban, lol. Don't ban my based grandpappy plz. Seriously though, that would be so shitty.
PozerWolf Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 This is scrubilicious, i am pretty sure that you fools would have banned Zato on GG#R back in the day (i actually think that you would ban Zaton and Testament on GGAC too) This community is a joke, SMDH... That's a totally different story. You're completely underestimating what Kokonoe can do. Essentially you're mocking people who feel that ST Akuma should be banned. Not to mention, there's a different route going about this. If you really wanna bring up GG days, then why were EX characters banned? Not like they were any good, hell some seem really weak. Of course it was due to console exclusive content, but guess what--
Pen_Ninja Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Some people are seizing the opportunity to call for a Valkenhayn ban, lol. I think these are all jokes from people believing that Koko is only just as bad as Valk
Hecatom Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) But at least we'll feel better when top tier X wins a tournament instead of top tier Y! I wonder where those fools were when Rachel, Arakune and V13 were shitting on everyone unlike koko who is not that bad as people like to scream. That's a totally different story. You're completely underestimating what Kokonoe can do. Essentially you're mocking people who feel that ST Akuma should be banned. I disagree, she is not near at the level of dominance of ST Akuma. Do i think that she needs balance? Yes, but that she is that strong that she should be banned, absolutely not. If you really wanna bring up GG days, then why were EX characters banned? Not like they were any good, hell some seem really weak. Of course it was due to console exclusive content, but guess what-- That is very easy to answer, because back in the day people auto banned anything that wasn't part of the arcade game, it was never something about if they were truly broken or not, they were not in the arcade version of the game so they were banned because of it. Edited January 22, 2014 by Hecatom
Ventus Tatshima Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 I think these are all jokes from people believing that Koko is only just as bad as Valk One would hope those were jokes
PozerWolf Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) I wonder where those fools were when Rachel, Arakune and V13 were shitting on everyone unlike koko who is not that bad as people like to scream. This is now just becoming an ignorant discussion. Truly a person who's trying this hard to get attention, or someone who really has no idea what they're talking about. It's unfortunate see this discussion crumple into something as silly as "ALL YOU GUYZ DO IS CRY!! MAN UP AND LERN 2 PLAY" Really...? I disagree, she is not near at the level of dominance of ST Akuma. Do i think that she needs balance? Yes, but that she is that strong that she should be banned, absolutely not. Oh? Care to share? Note, that when ST Akuma first came out, people thought he was weak. After a ban, Japanese tournaments actually allowed ST Akuma for the hell of it sometimes. Even with the best Akuams from Japan showing up to those tournaments, they sometimes don't place. Because of these results, should ST Akuma be allowed? EDIT: The same also goes for Pet Shop when he's allowed for shits and giggles, and people who actually play that character seriously actually show up. But at least in this case, Capcom knew of Pet Shop's mobility, and gave a large decrease in Health once he was hit. That is very easy to answer, because back in the day people auto banned anything that wasn't part of the arcade game, it was never something about if they were truly broken or not, they were not in the arcade version of the game so they were banned because of it. That question was already answered in that post. Kagura, Terumi, and Kokonoe are console exclusive and have been known to be banned in several tournaments to keep it Arcade Original. I was merely stating the situation of the rules used in the past. Edited January 22, 2014 by PozerWolf
HoudiniJr100 Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Super Turbo Akuma. ...at least it ain't cheap on levels of CYBER AKUMA.
PozerWolf Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 ...at least it ain't cheap on levels of CYBER AKUMA. Cyber Akuma is my husbando
HoudiniJr100 Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Cyber Akuma is my husbando ...still pretty cheap. Only cheap character/boss I know of...aside maybe shin Akuma or serious mr karate or orochi Iori.. Or Goenitz Okay Skill kinda counts but all he has is the damn parry, and you can easily kick his ass if you headshot him. (Yeah off topic but he's a boss character what do ya expect?)
LegendaryRath Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 This is scrubilicious, i am pretty sure that you fools would have banned Zato on GG#R back in the day (i actually think that you would ban Zaton and Testament on GGAC too) This community is a joke, SMDH... Everyone is entitled to their opinions. No one should give you a hard time for wanting her to stay. You should also respect other peoples' opinions. You appear to be starting a pointless argument that is not completely relevant to the topic.
YukiBlue Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Woooo. I return. In a way I'm glad they did it, though I can see why people would be a bit pissed off with it. But I don't see how any rational human could say she isn't broken in her current state. Even without the infinite blockstring. "Oh but you need to land multiple 1f links" ....So?
Fistmaster049 Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Woooo. I return. :D "Oh but you need to land multiple 1f links" ....So? Some people need to learn just because a character is execution heavy doesn't mean they are bad
Airk Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 I think this is a good thing; Who the hell knows when Arc is going to get off their ass and fix her, and it's clear she was a ridiculous rush job. At the end of the day, the only people this ban hurts are people who are ONLY willing to play Kokonoe. It helps everyone else. I don't think this game has a long enough likely lifespan to spend months and months and months arguing back and forth about a character who screws up the game something fierce. Is she an "I win" button? No. Is she incredibly stupid and a negative impact on the game. Absolutely. Best to cut this off swiftly and decisively and get on with our lives.
BananaKun Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 I think this is a good thing; Who the hell knows when Arc is going to get off their ass and fix her, and it's clear she was a ridiculous rush job. At the end of the day, the only people this ban hurts are people who are ONLY willing to play Kokonoe. It helps everyone else. I don't think this game has a long enough likely lifespan to spend months and months and months arguing back and forth about a character who screws up the game something fierce. Is she an "I win" button? No. Is she incredibly stupid and a negative impact on the game. Absolutely. Best to cut this off swiftly and decisively and get on with our lives. Not that I'm not willing to use other characters, but it does hurt all Kokonoe players. People who were taking her seriously still had to commit a non-trivial amount of time to her, it'll be an obvious handicap if you didn't have alts at the time. It's back to square 1 for me (and many others). Like I said before, I'm fine with the ban. I still find it a bit unsettling, but it sounds like most people are willing to go down this road and it's a community decision, so yeah.
Airk Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Not that I'm not willing to use other characters, but it does hurt all Kokonoe players. People who were taking her seriously still had to commit a non-trivial amount of time to her, it'll be an obvious handicap if you didn't have alts at the time. It's back to square 1 for me (and many others). Did you play any previous versions of the game? Or did you literally just pick the game up after launch and say "Whoo, Kokonoe!"? I just have a hard time believing that there are THAT many people who A) Started with CP and B) Started with Kokonoe. Are there some? Undoubtedly. Are they worth potentially damaging the long term health of the game for? I'm not so sure.
Tage*Proto Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Nobody really wins in this situation, it's unfortunate all around that the community has to consider this sort of thing. It doesn't surprise me if there are players who started with CP and only play Kokonoe, it's a blow to them especially. However, I would most definitely prefer for this all to take place now before we get into the true swing of major tournaments.
BananaKun Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Did you play any previous versions of the game? Or did you literally just pick the game up after launch and say "Whoo, Kokonoe!"? I just have a hard time believing that there are THAT many people who A) Started with CP and B) Started with Kokonoe. Are there some? Undoubtedly. Are they worth potentially damaging the long term health of the game for? I'm not so sure. Yes, it's my first BB. I started with Kokonoe because she seemed fun. I'm not arguing the amount of people at all, but you make it sound like it only affects a Kokonoe player if they're not willing to switch (??)
YukiBlue Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 When Street Fighter AE was released. Yun was instantly the single best character in the game, Ono, one of the heads behind the game came out and said they wanted him to be this strong. They didn't care about the impact he would have on the game. Daigo switched to Yun, Yun was everywhere, Anti-Yun tech was the top of the agenda and if you couldn't beat Yun, you were going to have a seriously hard time. Looking at characters like Dhalsim and Chun-Li. He was unhealthy for the game. Kokonoe could have taken CP down the same route, but they nipped it at the bud, and I think the game will be better off for it until they get off their ass and fix her.
TheArm05 Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Yeah it sucks for Koko players that they wasted their time if she gets banned. It also sucks that ArcSys released a character that is so obviously strong that she completely renders the majority of the cast obsolete. The real question is do we want to play a ~6 character game or a 15-20 character game? Kokonoe will define the competitive environment of this game if she is allowed to rock. Honestly it isn't even about her getting 1st in every tournament. Anyone who saw NEC pools knows exactly how much effect she had on the entire tournament and that was with everyone being shit with the character. Honestly I just want to play this game so I prefer whatever is healthiest for the scene. I play both a character that can kind of fight her (Azrael) and one who just gets dumpstered (Rachel) so I know what it is like playing against this character from two extremes. The Rachel player in me says that Kokonoe is an abomination that may as well have replaced my character on the select screen because she is just better than Rachel at everything. The Azrael player in me says that I can deal with this character and it won't be so bad. Take that however you want.
wiredgod Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Did you play any previous versions of the game? Or did you literally just pick the game up after launch and say "Whoo, Kokonoe!"? I just have a hard time believing that there are THAT many people who A) Started with CP and B) Started with Kokonoe. Are there some? Undoubtedly. Are they worth potentially damaging the long term health of the game for? I'm not so sure. There's a decent number of new to BB Kokonoe players. There's also a lot of other new players that pick characters that can't get escape blackhole setups, deal with her neutral game, or compete with her damage. I'm not a cheerleader for banning, but getting put into that blockstring into blackhole in a tourney might make me quit the game. Might as well pick up your stick during the match and go elsewhere
Rhannmah Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 People who were taking her seriously still had to commit a non-trivial amount of time to her, it'll be an obvious handicap if you didn't have alts at the time. It's back to square 1 for me (and many others). Well, at least it's not all going to be lost when she actually gets patched and gets unbanned. I just hope that ArcSys balances her fairly and doesn't destroy her like CT -> CS1 Rachel. She's a really interesting character, i used to hold a "wait and see" approach, but after that infinite corner blockstring(thanks for showing that to us btw), i really can't argue that this is anywhere close to being fair. Corner knockdown into lightning trap oki is something that happens -all the time-, so that can lead straight into it. Reminds me of hyper SSF2 dictator with the infinite knee press corner pressure.
LegendaryRath Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Yes, it's my first BB. I started with Kokonoe because she seemed fun. I'm not arguing the amount of people at all, but you make it sound like it only affects a Kokonoe player if they're not willing to switch (??) This really sucks for Kokonoe players who have put a lot of time and effort into getting good with her. Sure, they could switch to another character, but maybe they don't want to feel like they're starting all over, or maybe they just never found anyone else fun. It's unfortunate that we're even in this situation, and it's unfair for Kokonoe players who really do enjoy the character. I'm still 100% behind a ban though. She makes me feel like no matter how much effort I put into the game, it will be for nothing (unless I switch to her). Almost my entire state hates her with a passion. I know more players who wont play because of Kokonoe than I know Kokonoe players at all. imo, that more than justifies a ban. I guess I'm just trying to show that I understand both sides of this. On a side note, I would like to mention how annoying it is that a lot of koko players (not you of course) keep falling back on "They're banning her because no one wants to learn the matchup!" Perhaps it is possible to consistently beat top Kokonoes if you understand enough about her. Maybe we'll see someone show this knowledge off at a major sometime. But I think it is incredibly unreasonable to expect 99.9% of the community to be willing or even capable of doing this. People have 25 other matchups to worry about too. There is so much specific stuff you need to know in order to escape much of her "rigged" stuff that most players will be unable or unwilling to learn to deal with it. I'm not saying that these sort of statements are unjustified. They probably hold some truth, in that Kokonoe is beatable (possibly even at top levels) if you know as much about her as the other player does. It's just that these kinds of broad statements are both uneducated (by clearly not attempting to understand the other side of the argument) and selfish/childish (ba-baka!). Edited January 22, 2014 by LegendaryRath spelling
susano Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Well, at least it's not all going to be lost when she actually gets patched and gets unbanned. I just hope that ArcSys balances her fairly and doesn't destroy her like CT -> CS1 Rachel. She's a really interesting character, i used to hold a "wait and see" approach, but after that infinite corner blockstring(thanks for showing that to us btw), i really can't argue that this is anywhere close to being fair. Corner knockdown into lightning trap oki is something that happens -all the time-, so that can lead straight into it. Reminds me of hyper SSF2 dictator with the infinite knee press corner pressure. Oh God, don't remind me. My brother used to rape me with that. I wanted to strangle him with the SNES cord.
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