Snatcher Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Did you account for the extra frame of hitstun versus crouching? If it's +4 max meaty vs standing and +5 vs crouching, you can link cS off it into something meaningful.
Twerk4Dakids Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 I did some number crunching. I can only see 6K as +4 if you hit the last active frame wich means you can't ever link it. You got any footage of it? If you could link of meaty 6K it would be useful but I can't see it possible frame wise. I sat down in training trying to do it but never got a link once. First attempt on It's Late meaty setup. I just don't see why 6K would ever be better than It's Late in pretty much any situation. But then again I can't link it. Did you do it on CH, meaty and crouching? It needs to be pretty perfect to work. Still, I don't use it for links, I use it for more pressure. It's not meant to be used as a combo tool IMO.
fogelstrom Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Did you account for the extra frame of hitstun versus crouching? If it's +4 max meaty vs standing and +5 vs crouching, you can link cS off it into something meaningful. Yes, and even then my numbers end up at +4 on crouching and +3 on standing. Even if it is 5F and is 1F link I should have hit it at least once by mistake from trying. Also if it actually was possible to link I'd tink we'd see JP players using it, but they don't. If it is possible I just want someone recording and showing since I wasn't capable of doing it once and my numbers says it's max +4 on crouch. Did you do it on CH, meaty and crouching? It needs to be pretty perfect to work. Still, I don't use it for links, I use it for more pressure. It's not meant to be used as a combo tool IMO. You did not mention CH but then it's common knowledge. However still, for my own personal style, I don't see 6K fitting in as a pressure tool. Since you get nothing there's not much to be afraid of hence, in my meaning, not really worth other pressure options. But as I said earlier, if it works out for you I by no means am trying to tell you not to use it. I just simply think there are almost always better options at hand than 6K.
ApertureBlack Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Man I dont understand why people dont want 6K to lead to a knockdown. As of now its almost useless because the only way to reliably get anything off of it is a counter hit, but literally everyone in the cast has a faster overhead that leads to more damage
Wirya Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 http://shoryuken.com/2015/02/13/arc-system-works-reveals-second-round-of-changes-for-guilty-gear-xrd-sign-update-set-to-launch-in-march/ Looks like they didn't increase bite's damage? Oh well, as long as the increased advantage on hit really means something (like if we can link a 2K after it like in AC). And k dandy pile still gets that awful 70℅ forced proration....
Snatcher Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 The way I see it right now, and I'd appreciate any correction: 6k is currently -2 on hit, with five active frames, so if it hits on last active frame it would be +2. If they're removing 2f recovery, perfect meaty 6k would then be +4, and accounting for the extra frame for hitting a croucher (because who's hitting an overhead on standing opponent?), you'd get +5 and have link options. It could even lead to combos like 6k,cS, fS, cS, 2D or something. Again, if I made a mistake, tell me so.
tortoos Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 If it's not 90% proration K dandy pile is awful. I don't understand why you want to stop slayer from doing damage when tradtionally as a character his gimmick has been damage. Doesn't make sense to me, especially considering elphelt can already do more than he can in the first place and is a better character to boot. If you get hit with something slow like K dandy Pilebunker it was your own damn fault for getting hit by it in the first place. Again, would find slapping that with a painful 70% proration could literally double as a nerf in some cases. At least if you happen to counter hit with it now, it leads to good damage. I obviously have no way to crunch the numbers, but i'd think with something like 70% proration, even if you did something like 6HS CH KDP CWH air combo it would do hardly more (if more at all), than the current standard of 6hs CHW because of that heavy heavy proration. Can we get eventual confirmation on the proration change to k dandy (is it still awful?), as well as if combos post P pilebunker CH are possible? I'm not going to be happy without actual confirmation these are useful beneficial changes to this character. Also funny that P pile does 70 damage now when realistically it's never the optimal combo tool to begin with.
magz Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 And k dandy pile still gets that awful 70℅ forced proration.... That's a mistake on the part of whoever wrote the article. The actual PDF from Arcsys states that it was set to 90% with the 70% change crossed out.
Wirya Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Smashing! <3 EDIT: Dang, bite's damage is still 72. Oh well.
tortoos Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 If I had to choose between bite being 72 damage and PB having 90% Proration, I know what i'd choose. I can't complain too much about that particular part.
fogelstrom Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 The way I see it right now, and I'd appreciate any correction: 6k is currently -2 on hit, with five active frames, so if it hits on last active frame it would be +2. If they're removing 2f recovery, perfect meaty 6k would then be +4, and accounting for the extra frame for hitting a croucher (because who's hitting an overhead on standing opponent?), you'd get +5 and have link options. It could even lead to combos like 6k,cS, fS, cS, 2D or something. Again, if I made a mistake, tell me so. You are calulating blocked frames. It's -2 on block not hit. 6K is a Lv2 move (counting 0-4 Xrd system) so it has 15F hitstun on a crouching player with 11F recovery (4+7F) so you are left with +4. On the translations they only mention "2F recovery" not if it's pre-landing or landing. If they removed 2F from the landing recovery making it 4+5F we'd be able to link all day. But wouldn't someone have made a tweet if it was possible already?
Mebaro Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 i went to the location test, even though i didnt play i was watching taka play, and here what i got 2hs range is longer: taka was using it to kill eddie behind the drill CH P pilebunker: taka was struggling to get a combo from it k pilebunker wall stick: taka did bnb->RC-> k pilebunker-> wall stick -> 6hs p pile dandy HS: can do combo on may Ch 6p: taka tried to do IAD j,hs but didnt connect, it looked like he was late on IAD but idk if it actually works
Mebaro Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 about CH p pilebunker,in mid screen, taka tried c.s but f.s came out, tried 5HS it connects but the opponent is too far for an air combo. it looks comboable in the corner, but didnt see anyone try it, so cant confirm on that
koufdell Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 maybe ch 6p can be fallowed by meaty k mappa?depends how vertical the push is .....but i guess taka did try that
tortoos Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Sounds like they need to bounce closer to slayer on P PB CH to allow for a c.s or 5hs pickup. I really don't see why this is hard to implement unless they are actively trying to prevent him from getting a decent combo from it mid screen, and If that is the case, what was the point of changing it at all? If you wanted these changes to be actually good, stuff like CH P PB c.s f.s air combo BNB would be possible, as well as stuff like Ch 6HS 214k-P, 214k-k 5hs air combo BNB. If you can't do those, these hardly seem like buffs that are that particularly useful to be honest. In fact, I could see that doubling as a nerf, since if ch P pile wallbounces in the corner, you wouldn't be able to go into k dandy crosswise, which could actually hurt his damage if anything. You really need to be able to get a strong combo off of this mid screen or I can't see this as being anything but a miniscule buff mid screen and a nerf in the corner.
Banoffee Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Did Taka not try 2P > 2S after CH PB? That was the reliable combo in #R/Slash.
tortoos Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Did Taka not try 2P > 2S after CH PB? That was the reliable combo in #R/Slash. Yeah see it's hard to say stuff like that. I think as long as you can go into an air combo off of it, it would be alright. The issue is if the best you're going to get is something like 6HS and another pilebunker.
koufdell Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 i went to the location test, even though i didnt play i was watching taka play, and here what i got 2hs range is longer: taka was using it to kill eddie behind the drill CH P pilebunker: taka was struggling to get a combo from it p pilebunker wall stick: taka did bnb->RC-> P pilebunker-> wall stick -> 6hs p pile dandy HS: can do combo on may Ch 6p: taka tried to do IAD j,hs but didnt connect, it looked like he was late on IAD but idk if it actually works i think it's K pilebunker that causes wall stick on normal hit....must be a typo
Mebaro Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 i think it's K pilebunker that causes wall stick on normal hit....must be a typo oh you are correct, sorry for the mistake in other news, i read a comment in twitter that said 2hs --> pile bunker is strong, no idea if thats true
Melo Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 Mebaro, can you confirm all dashes preserve jump momentum?
Mebaro Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Mebaro, can you confirm all dashes preserve jump momentum? Now you've mention it. Taka was doing FDC (forward dash cancel) J.2K i think he was testing that. So yes i can confirm that
Melo Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Now you've mention it. Taka was doing FDC J.2K i think he was testing that. So yes i can confirm that Awesome! The wording on the changelog was a little ambiguous so I wasn't quite sure what it meant. I hope the current changes stay in for console. FDJC j.H is hard to deal with for a lot of the cast at the right range and the buff to the hitbox on p bunker and 2h means you can't just mindlessly mash against SL anymore. The only thing is now people may take to the air to approach SL, and as we know, SL's AA are a little underwhelming but then again I am not sure if anyone else can get close to 200 damage of a CH 5P/2S AA meterless lol
Wirya Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Now you've mention it. Taka was doing FDC J.2K i think he was testing that. So yes i can confirm that Duh, for a moment I thought you meant something like Faust's FDC j.2k, lol.
Mebaro Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Duh, for a moment I thought you meant something like Faust's FDC j.2k, lol. That will be crazy broken XD. but yeah i meant forward dash cancel not faultless defense cancel
zedreamcast Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 New to the game, i dont really understand how to do the back dash cancel. Is that still a thing?
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