Shruikon Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 Don't give up :P You are right, sorry, let's move on. It's not like this combo was our main gameplan anyway. Though i liked its flashiness. I just hope they fix the 623D > j.236D > j.214D whiffing on some characters (Azrael mainly) With what we know, Tsubaki still plays the same 90% of the time. This update is disappointing in this matter, i would have loved some more drastic changes. This update was never intended to be game changing. People were expecting way too much.
Airk Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Dunno. I was expecting 'game changing' in the sense of 'changes the game' , which these changes certainly do. They just don't change certain aspects the way I believe they should be changed. As usual, Arc's changes seem inconsistent. You would think I would learn, but I don't think it's too much to ask for them to be inconsistent in my favor once in awhile, eh? Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk
diospyros Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 More changes from famitsu http://www.famitsu.com/matome/bbcp/tyousei3.html
Daedron Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 In other words: Backdash: total animation changed from 20 to 22f. Negative penalty: changed from level 2 to level 4. 6A: cannot emergency tech, steals knockdown on hit (???) 6C: can be cancelled on block. no additional hitstop on block. static diff changed from -12 to -18 3CC: the vaccuum on CH slightly increased [4]6D > 236D: blowback on aerial hit [4]6C/D: motion changed to 421A or 421D. A version startup changed from 27 to 25f, total animation changed from 56 to 54f, projectile speed increased. 214214D(all D versions): SMP changed from level 1 to level 2. 22D: if mugen ends while you're charging 22D, you still get the mugen version. OD 236236D: animation slightly changed. last hit has blowback. Nothing too serious here, nothing that will move her up or down the tier list.
Airk Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Nothing too serious here, nothing that will move her up or down the tier list. The nicest thing in there is probably the negative penalty change - that should make it a little more possible to run away to charge without the game going "No no, bad player, you have to go fight now." Still pretty minor though.
Zouf Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 6 frames lost on 6C is incredibly huge. Wtf. I don't even know with what i'll cancel it. Probably back airdash, the only safe option, as every special move is unsafe on tsubaki (except D moves, but screw it)
Errol Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 The nicest thing in there is probably the negative penalty change - that should make it a little more possible to run away to charge without the game going "No no, bad player, you have to go fight now." Still pretty minor though. Not really going to change anything. Neg penalty is pretty hard to get in CP even with Tsubaki. 6 frames lost on 6C is incredibly huge. Wtf. I don't even know with what i'll cancel it. Probably back airdash, the only safe option, as every special move is unsafe on tsubaki (except D moves, but screw it) Yeah, 6C is definitely nerfed. it will still be usable but JD stuff is totally dead. the new projectile will be reasonably safe from 6c, and will probably be a better go-to when you are getting pushed out than 6c in the first place. Tsubaki's floating backwards could make the new projectile very strong in blockstrings at certain ranges.
Airk Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Not really going to change anything. Neg penalty is pretty hard to get in CP even with Tsubaki. Fair enough. Yeah, 6C is definitely nerfed. it will still be usable but JD stuff is totally dead. the new projectile will be reasonably safe from 6c, and will probably be a better go-to when you are getting pushed out than 6c in the first place. I still don't REALLY understand how the hitstop thing works. But the additional minus on block is the most meaningless change imaginable.
TheGreatReptar Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 To my understanding, Tsubaki's gave the opponent more hitstop time than Tsubaki got, so it effectively gave it more blockstun than it'd normally have. They gave it normal hitstop, so it got more minus. It also means doing 6C>j.D>j.A will have a bigger gap because of the lack of hitstop on the opponent. I'd glady lose that to be able to special cancel 6C regularly though. Almost all of her changes outside of 6C and D special SMP are just nice little quality of life changes. Looks like we get to play CP Tsubaki for another year~
Errol Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 I'm not sure why you'd give up 26 frames of blockstun for a 20 blockstun special cancelable 6c. to me it adds pretty much nothing, except the possibility of green grabbing with command grab. and it removes autoconfirms of mugen, or whatever you like.
Kiba Posted March 6, 2014 Author Posted March 6, 2014 Updated OP. 421D input change allows for better hitconfirms for stronger combos, e.g it's easier for us to deal 3.5k + with 6A > 5C with the input change as opposed to doing it with a charge attack. Overall they've made some of our combos easier.
Zouf Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 I'm not sure why you'd give up 26 frames of blockstun for a 20 blockstun special cancelable 6c. to me it adds pretty much nothing, except the possibility of green grabbing with command grab. and it removes autoconfirms of mugen, or whatever you like. If the opponent doesn't barrier block that is. Otherwise, the command grab will whiff. This change could have had sense back in CS2 where every D moves was + on guard, in CP it's plain useless.
Level5-Chan Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Backdash: ... slight to some nerf. To me, 2 more frames with no added invincible is big. NPR: Take that, Tager! I can backdash even more even when you magnetized me. (Sorry, personal feelings against my friend Brice) 6A: Thank you, hard knockdown! No more emergency tech! Hate that when everybody can tech when air-hit on wakeup. 6C: ... ... I don't know what to say. I'm good with 'canceled on block', but... "-18"? It's just... wow. 3CC: I could say it's a good buff. I just need to know if it means that I can combo at max range. [4]6D > 236D (Aerial-hit): I don't know the meaning of "Will always knock the opponent forward". Does it mean it will correct the position of the opponents? What I mean is that, sometimes, when the attack hits above the enemy (so close that he will cross-up soon), it will blowback and wallbounce to the opposite side, causing a hard time to run and combo it. It's is that that they are saying that they fixed it? [4]6A/D to 421A/D: I'm happy about it, seriously. I can DP safely when I was on the defensive. No more Reversal [4]6C. 214214D: Good buff. At least we can still do our usual ([4]6D > 236D)x2 Install Combo. (unless I'm mistaking) 22D: Ok, but Nothing has change for her, unless you want to do for High Risk Guard Break. 236236D Overdrive: I just hope her animation is a buff. So in the end, she had multiple, however small to medium, buffs and a hard 6C nerf. Like Daedron says, there is no change that makes her a serious threat. She is still having some problems with her range and combos, with her abilities to pressure the opponents and with lots of her specials still negative on block. Since, based on our perspective, she remained somewhat unchanged, although it may be a bad things, but it can also be a good things depending on the changes of all others characters, meaning that we can still play her as she is, without getting uncomfortable when the patch comes out, while some characters will have to deal with heavy nerfs.
Daedron Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 A lot of the top should be slightly easier to deal with as Tsubaki after the patch, she won't move in tiers or overall power but the balance of power should be closer together. At least, that's what the patch is supposed to do.
Airk Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Backdash: ... slight to some nerf. To me, 2 more frames with no added invincible is big. I concur, especially since there's no added distance either, so the backdash becomes slower as well. 6C: ... ... I don't know what to say. I'm good with 'canceled on block', but... "-18"? It's just... wow. -18 is pretty much irrelevant though. I mean, when was the last time you didn't cancel this move? Now there's even more reason to cancel it, big deal. [4]6D > 236D (Aerial-hit): I don't know the meaning of "Will always knock the opponent forward". Does it mean it will correct the position of the opponents? What I mean is that, sometimes, when the attack hits above the enemy (so close that he will cross-up soon), it will blowback and wallbounce to the opposite side, causing a hard time to run and combo it. It's is that that they are saying that they fixed it? Believe so. 214214D: Good buff. At least we can still do our usual ([4]6D > 236D)x2 Install Combo. (unless I'm mistaking) Erm, not a buff. Nerf. Pretty big nerf. This means that repeating any D move in Mugen will cost you 240F of combo time instead of 120. So in the end, she had multiple, however small to medium, buffs and a hard 6C nerf. I really don't grasp why people think the change in static difference on 6C matters at all. It's so trivial that I'm not sure why they bothered doing it.
Daedron Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Because the 6C nerf means no more j.D > j.A/B stuff. Not like it was all that great but it was an option and it worked pretty well against any character without a DP cause unless they IB the 6C (and you only do first hit, so relatively hard ;p) they can't mash you out of it, now they can. But yeah, not all that big of a deal.
Level5-Chan Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 -18 is pretty much irrelevant though. I mean, when was the last time you didn't cancel this move? Now there's even more reason to cancel it, big deal. Erm, not a buff. Nerf. Pretty big nerf. This means that repeating any D move in Mugen will cost you 240F of combo time instead of 120. I really don't grasp why people think the change in static difference on 6C matters at all. It's so trivial that I'm not sure why they bothered doing it. Ok, yeah, I understand. Sorry of misunderstanding the signification of some moves.
Airk Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Because the 6C nerf means no more j.D > j.A/B stuff. Not like it was all that great but it was an option and it worked pretty well against any character without a DP cause unless they IB the 6C (and you only do first hit, so relatively hard ;p) they can't mash you out of it, now they can. But yeah, not all that big of a deal. Even so, I don't get the sense that people are going "Boo, the reduced blockstun reduces my options for jump cancel stuff!" so much as they are going "-18! OMG! So bad!"
Level5-Chan Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Even so, I don't get the sense that people are going "Boo, the reduced blockstun reduces my options for jump cancel stuff!" so much as they are going "-18! OMG! So bad!" It's true. We got alienated by the numbers. That's how lots of people are.
chzchan Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 Have been trying out some minimum resource Mugen combos recently without doing the second [4]6D 236D because it's going away in 1.1 because of the SMP nerf.  The good old reliable midscreen CH Mugen combo that only required 1 charge but netted 5.6k-6k damage depending on the starter needed the double [4]6D > 236D in order to work.  CH 5C > 6C > Mugen > [4]6D > 236D [x2] > 5C > 5CC > 623C > j.236A > j.214B for 6018 CH 5B > 6C > Mugen > [4]6D > 236D [x2] > 5C > 5CC > 623C > j.236A > j.214B for 5593  I think I have a workaround, though it is fairly unreliable. It takes advantage of the guard crush property of a fully charged 22D while in mugen, so I'm sure this won't be very astounding to many of you. I say it is unreliable because I am still unsure if it is possible to barrier guard on wakeup from being in a stagger state. It will actually be a bit more reliable than it is right now because of the change to 22D in 1.1 so that it retains its guard crush properties so long as it was started in mugen even if the install meter is empty and mugen ends.  CH 5C > 6C > Mugen > [4]6D > 236D > 22D [max] > Guard Crush > 6C > 6CC > 214B > 5C > 2C > 2CC > jc > j.C > j.CC > j.236A > j.214B for 2990 + 2706 = 5696 CH 5B > 6C > Mugen > [4]6D > 236D > 22D [max] > Guard Crush > 6C > 6CC > 214B > 5C > 2C > 2CC > jc > j.C > j.CC > j.236A > j.214B for 2735 + 2706 = 5441  So the combo can go one of two ways, you can either get the guard break and go crazy with whatever no charge combo you have or continue with a blue combo if they choose not to recover. Even the blue combos do a considerable amount of damage.  CH 5C > 6C > Mugen > [4]6D > 236D > 22D [max] > 6C > 6CC > 623C > j.236A > j.214B for 5918 CH 5B > 6C > Mugen > [4]6D > 236D > 22D [max] > 6C > 6CC > 623C > j.236A > j.214B for 5499  Of course, in 1.1, the [4]6D inputs will be replaced with 421D.  These two part multi-path guard crush combos are pretty fun. Makes me want to come up with more of them.
TheGreatReptar Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 You could just do 5B/5C CH>6C>46D>236D>214D>22D>6C>623C>j.236A>j.214A for 5988 or 5565. Â Losing double 46D>236D doesn't really effect her damage that much actually =P
zaeris Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 i think it will only effect the 3 plus stock mugen combo lol of course the damage on the 1 and 2 stock is quite good already although you wont be seeing triple 26d>236d x3 again lol
Airk Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 You could just do 5B/5C CH>6C>46D>236D>214D>22D>6C>623C>j.236A>j.214A for 5988 or 5565. Â Losing double 46D>236D doesn't really effect her damage that much actually =P Â I know what combo _I_ am practicing tonight...
chzchan Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 You could just do 5B/5C CH>6C>46D>236D>214D>22D>6C>623C>j.236A>j.214A for 5988 or 5565. Â Losing double 46D>236D doesn't really effect her damage that much actually =P Â Welp, guess I gotta throw all that out the window. Still, I really want to make some sort of practical use out of 421D > 236D > 22D [max] guard crush setup on the ground while in mugen, especially because of the 1.1 adjustment. Â Back to the training room I guess.
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