[Xrd] Zato - General discussion and changes list

[dehumanizer]

So most Zato players don't 'click' with him immediately, they just learn how to function until they are competent with him?

Not sure about other Zato player's experience, but it didn't just 'click' for me. Adjusting to negative edging combos takes a while and you also have to learn how to maneuver little eddie around certain situations. For example, how would you approach with little eddie out already against a sol that's gun flaming from the otherside. You gotta learn how to use the drills to protect little eddie before moving in that scenario, or just use little eddie as harassment to keep sol out for a while. You need to have the experience to know when you can move in and when you can harass or unsummon. On top of all that, you need to have a good Zato base to keep Sol feeling unsafe to approach.

[president]

So most Zato players don't 'click' with him immediately, they just learn how to function until they are competent with him?

 

Zato didn't "click" at all, more like the complete opposite. From my perspective as a fighting game player I hate "victim" type characters that get run over once caught, and I'm really no execution natural as well. However I like the character so much (massive storyfag detected) that I forced myself to learn him as a sub in AC over the years. I still feel more comfortable playing regular characters but I'm trying my best to stay loyal.

[huber]

So most Zato players don't 'click' with him immediately, they just learn how to function until they are competent with him?

It's just about getting enough games/training mode under your belt to be comfortable controlling the character.  I don't think there is any one moment that makes you go "oh I get it now" and suddenly you're Ogawa.  You just get more comfortable with the character as you play more.

[tastylumpia]

Basic mawaru mixups.

What do you do for mid-distance mawaru confirm from midscreen? Like 2K,2S -K- on hit there's too much pushback to combo dash 2/5S 5H 22H?

[Mr.Biscuits]

What do you do for mid-distance mawaru confirm from midscreen? Like 2K,2S -K- on hit there's too much pushback to combo dash 2/5S 5H 22H?

You can dash 2s > 5H > -K- > 22H unsummon.

[Cashus]

Not sure about other Zato player's experience, but it didn't just 'click' for me. Adjusting to negative edging combos takes a while and you also have to learn how to maneuver little eddie around certain situations. For example, how would you approach with little eddie out already against a sol that's gun flaming from the otherside. You gotta learn how to use the drills to protect little eddie before moving in that scenario, or just use little eddie as harassment to keep sol out for a while. You need to have the experience to know when you can move in and when you can harass or unsummon. On top of all that, you need to have a good Zato base to keep Sol feeling unsafe to approach.

what are some of his combos in Xrd that require negative edging? I want to try it. 

[dehumanizer]

what are some of his combos in Xrd that require negative edging? I want to try it. 

I'm still learning Xrd, but I feel as though there isn't as much negative edging for Zato as his AC counterpart, maybe also cause I'm so used to it by now. Still probably a lot to learn if you are new. Here is a combo for Xrd I was trying yesterday.

any command with -X- means release and [X] means hold

 

Combo (1) corner only

-K- >5p>5k>[K]>2S> -K- >66>5cS>5H>[P]>5D>[D]>[6]> -P- >6P> -D- >2H>22S 

This combo should set you up for a unblockable drill.

Afterwards, you can do

 

Combo (2)

j.H>41236S>RRC (after second hit)>land and wait for a split second>412369S>land>66>5D>66>6P>5H>22S

Alternately, if you want to go for more damage, you can do a 236K summon instead of the 22S and do a grounded combo.

 

An interesting combo I was also practicing yesterday with no little eddie was as follows.

 

Combo (3)

close 5D>[6]>jC>jH>jD>41236S>RRC (after second hit)>land and wait for a split second>412369S>land>66>5D>66>6P>5H>22S

 

pretty much the exactly same as Combo (2), but starting without little eddie.

 

Last thing I tried yesterday was to combo out of j.K>j.K  from a mawaru using a similar to Combo(1) and also combo out of a fake jump in using 5K>5cS.

[NukleuZ]

Trying really hard to find some 5D combos to unblockable that ends in 2D flight.

Hit confirm to 5D,6 ;

5S,2HS,2D(press and release),2P,2D flight works om everyone but Faust&May(I don't have Elphelt) . Faust you could just do j.S,j.HS,j.D(press and release),2P,2D flight. But May is proving to be hard :S

[Mr.Biscuits]

Zato overview I did on the spot for viewers. Very barebones and basic. http://youtu.be/qn2JdTmvbpo

[WT_Neptune]

Zato overview I did on the spot for viewers. Very barebones and basic. http://youtu.be/qn2JdTmvbpo

 

Lol "Knockdown"

[Cashus]

I'm still learning Xrd, but I feel as though there isn't as much negative edging for Zato as his AC counterpart, maybe also cause I'm so used to it by now. Still probably a lot to learn if you are new. Here is a combo for Xrd I was trying yesterday.

any command with -X- means release and [X] means hold

 

Combo (1) corner only

-K- >5p>5k>[K]>2S> -K- >66>5cS>5H>[P]>5D>[D]>[6]> -P- >6P> -D- >2H>22S 

This combo should set you up for a unblockable drill.

Afterwards, you can do

 

Combo (2)

j.H>41236S>RRC (after second hit)>land and wait for a split second>412369S>land>66>5D>66>6P>5H>22S

Alternately, if you want to go for more damage, you can do a 236K summon instead of the 22S and do a grounded combo.

 

An interesting combo I was also practicing yesterday with no little eddie was as follows.

 

Combo (3)

close 5D>[6]>jC>jH>jD>41236S>RRC (after second hit)>land and wait for a split second>412369S>land>66>5D>66>6P>5H>22S

 

pretty much the exactly same as Combo (2), but starting without little eddie.

 

Last thing I tried yesterday was to combo out of j.K>j.K  from a mawaru using a similar to Combo(1) and also combo out of a fake jump in using 5K>5cS.

thanks dude. anyone have tips for challenge 33? I cant get the dust to combo after the P attack from little eddie. Then after the P attack he has to go into drill special, cant get that to work either. 

[Synyster17]

thanks dude. anyone have tips for challenge 33? I cant get the dust to combo after the P attack from little eddie. Then after the P attack he has to go into drill special, cant get that to work either. 

 

do 5p 5k 5s then do 5d but hold it. then quickly press and release 6p and hold that 6. then just continue the combo and shortly after release the d. 

[dehumanizer]

Totally forgot there were challenges in this game. So used to just watching match videos and hitting up training mode. Are the challenges useful for real matches? I usually just try to cut out fluff when training, which is why combo videos aren't the most useful for learning how to play.

[Complexity]

thanks dude. anyone have tips for challenge 33? I cant get the dust to combo after the P attack from little eddie. Then after the P attack he has to go into drill special, cant get that to work either. 

 

Forgot what the combo is but I remember that delaying the next move after the homing dash and turning Eddie into a mine when the camera shifts are good ways to clear the trial.

 

I don't think Zato's challenges were all that useful, but they do give some insight on the combo routes of this character.

[king of heart]

thanks dude. anyone have tips for challenge 33? I cant get the dust to combo after the P attack from little eddie. Then after the P attack he has to go into drill special, cant get that to work either.

You do (K S whatever) then hold D > tap P > 6 release D

[president]

trials give you an idea on delayed nobiru and flight mixup links but don't really tell you what to do with eddie afterwards or how to go into unblockables. they're good to start with and practice negative edging

[stickystaines]

How are people finding the spacing/timing of doing shadow gallery after an unblockable so that you'll get a Dust pickup? After a command throw setup its easy (at least on Ky) since you get put in the perfect position and you just need to do fly j.H xx SG. When you have to manually control the spacing though its a bit weird but i'm already getting better at it so it's definitely learnable. Is the spacing different for different characters? I imagine characters with wide air hitstun hurtboxes would be a pain since you're more likely to hit with the first hit.

[Tomo009]

I'm literally just jumping into the corner and doing it, it is working fine for me. Sometimes it is tricky on the unblockable > unblockable combo, but off the normal hitconfirm into D combo and off command grab I have pretty solid consistency with it now.

[president]

How are people finding the spacing/timing of doing shadow gallery after an unblockable so that you'll get a Dust pickup? After a command throw setup its easy (at least on Ky) since you get put in the perfect position and you just need to do fly j.H xx SG. When you have to manually control the spacing though its a bit weird but i'm already getting better at it so it's definitely learnable. Is the spacing different for different characters? I imagine characters with wide air hitstun hurtboxes would be a pain since you're more likely to hit with the first hit.

 

Just tried it on Potemkin, it's the same as Ky. Just hit with the j.H from as far as possible. There's no timing involved, only hitboxes.

[Rhythmic]

So, is there no universal combo off mawaru 5D? I've seen 5S->2H->2D->-D->2P->2D or 6P->-D->2H->22S or dash jH jD but from what I've heard they all seem to be character specific (not that I've tested all of them on everyone).

 

I'm willing to do suboptimal/get less damage as long as I get an universal combo into unblockable.

[president]

Stuff -> 5D6, j.S j.H -D-, 2P 2D, flight j.H.

 

Doesn't get easier than that. Release D the moment j.H connects, go from 2D into flight, works on everyone. You can't have any auto timings on the mine placement due to character specific wakeup speeds, you just need everything to connect which doesn't work with j.H j.D as well.

[woki]

6P->-D->2H->22S

This one is universal. I can't say for the other ones since I don't use them.

[Kane-Z]

Yeah, both ub setups that Mr.Biscuits and president posted are working fairly well for me. Ogawa seems to be using that 6P setup as well.

As a new Zato player I have a few questions about his neutral game. I believe Nobiru is his best AA when he already has the Shadow out? Sometimes I see players jumping straight at me but I don't have enough time to summon and release S in time. The startup seems a bit too slow. Should I just use 2H or 6P instead or just work on my reactions?

For summoning the Shadow Mr.Biscuit already mentioned in his video that we should establish a knockdown first but are there certain circumstances that we can summon safely during blockstrings? For example, using something like this:

2P > 2K > f.S > 2S > Summon > -P

Also, usually if I land a mawaru and I'm too far from the corner I just try to go for a simple knockdown > meaty drill > resummon. Like this:

Mawaru hits > P > [K] > S > -K > P > 2D > unsummon > meaty S drill > resummon

Is that fine or should I go for a nobiru juggle for better corner carry at the sacrifice of the guaranteed knockdown?

Some tips with dealing with upclose pressure?

Thanks.

[Mr.Biscuits]

Summoning off 2s is risky vs good players. Since they can IB the 2s and iad in. It's all about training your opponent to not mash. Summoning off 2k is good since it's +3: 2K > 236P/236S is usually safe unless they IB and also have a fast normal to poke the shadow. 

[GaoGaoGao]

What are some good blockstrings to use? I always get people chicken blocking or mashing through my stuff.