[Xrd] Zato - General discussion and changes list

[Coffeeling]

#R Eddie and Xrd Zato are more or less the same character. I think what the difficulty thing is about is confusing difficult in the absolute sense with something being merely foreign. For example it took me ages to master Iori's 2K 5K 6P 214P 214P 214P BnB. It's not actually difficult, but it was something I wasn't used to at all. Compare to pulling off reversals with the tight window this game has, which is actually hard in an absolute sense and not something you can just get used to.

Zato is much the same. Once you grok him and grind stuff into muscle memory, he ceases to be super hard in the absolute sense. But for someone just getting to it, there's a crapton of work to be done in familiarizing yourself with him both muscle memory and just plain thinking wise.

[GodPress]

This might be of use to you guys trying to implement Deadman's Hand into your game (The command grab from Eddie). Found it whilst trying to get some use out of it.

 

Corner unblockable with it:

Throw them into the corner (Eddie is behind them)

TK Shadow Gallery > -d- > 5K > 5S > 2D > j.S (unblockable) into whatever your chosen follow up is.

 

You can also do it with -s- but it isn't needed.

 

Im sure you'll be able to optimize it further. Fairly sure its possible from front throw too. 

[wiredgod]

In the corner I see a lot of combos ending in j.D and the opponent air teching.  Is there a way to punish their air tech so you can encourage them to take a full knockdown instead?

[Mr.Biscuits]

I thought Zato's challenge mode was actually really good for that. The combos aren't the most optimal but they teach you how to handle him really nicely. I had never played a negative edge character in my life before Xrd and I grinded all the muscle memory thanks to challenge mode. They don't expressly tell you "here is how to hit the buttons in order," but if you're at least familiar with the concept of negative edging, you'll figure out what you have to hit and when by doing the combos (and you can always look at the example with the inputs shown to see what you're doing wrong).

On that note, is Zato's difficulty blown way out of proportion or was he actually really hard to handle in #R/AC? I got a little mad the first day because my fingers were refusing to do what I wanted them to do, but all difficulty pretty much stopped after that. People talk about Eddie like he's some soul-crushingly hard character but it really felt like learning jutI uany other character, except with a slight hurdle to get past day 1.

Playing Zato's neutral is actually very difficult.

Can you apply everything you've learned in training mode in an actual match? Can you even function with a player constantly pressuring you? Can you consistently hit confirm into damage or a knockdown?

Have you played against a competent player who knows the Zato matchup?

Post again about his difficulty only after you've played against a good player that isn't scared of Zato.

[destruction_adv]

 

These are my basic observations on the Elphet matchup. Mind you I'm pretty new to Zato.

 

You have to be really careful with Elphets 5HS when you start playing against her.

If you try to summon after most blockstrings, or after a Drill, 5HS will tag you every time if you're at about midscreen or closer.

 

Ducking under 5HS let's you do 2s counterhit -> far drill at the right ranges if she's too trigger happy with 5HS.

Her antiair is pretty decent.

Don't let her freely Bridal Express you from the air. This is up to +9 at the right spacing, giving free pressure. However, If you manage to move forward just the right amount, you can get a throw punish every time since It's up to -5 on point blank hit. 2HS works if you do it early enough, but it either loses or trades if the Bridal Express is already going. Air throwing with the right timing works.

Her j.D has insane range when done defensively. Has landing recovery of course.

If she tries anything silly with the Miss Travailler dashes to cross you over, you can throw every time on reaction or read.

Miss Travailler shotgun shots in the corner...

 

For grenade, it's annoying. Really, really annoying.

Correction: GROUND bridal express is -5 AIR bridal express is +9 on the first active frame. With air bridal express the best options are to get out of the way or punish the start up IMO.

[wiredgod]

Playing Zato's neutral is actually very difficult.

 

What would you suggest practicing starting out with this character?  I'm not sure even where to begin.  Thanks for video btw.

[AStat]

What would you suggest practicing starting out with this character?  I'm not sure even where to begin.  Thanks for video btw.

Play (offline) and try to always think about what you're doing. Is there something better you could be doing with the shadow? Should you of summoned/unsommoned at a certain point you didn't? Could you of confirmed into a knockdown somewhere you didn't? Take time after every game to really think about what you did, especially on the shadow efficiency side.

[burningvigor]

On that note, is Zato's difficulty blown way out of proportion or was he actually really hard to handle in #R/AC? I got a little mad the first day because my fingers were refusing to do what I wanted them to do, but all difficulty pretty much stopped after that. People talk about Eddie like he's some soul-crushingly hard character but it really felt like learning just any other character, except with a slight hurdle to get past day 1.

He was much harder to use in #R.. AC was easy mode though. 

 

I haven't vs any strong Zato players online yet.  Most only know combos, but have no idea what to do at neutral, or while be pressured.

[Mr.Biscuits]

Learn Zato's normals in and out. Try to get a feel for them. For example when to use j.K to anti air instead of a 6P or 2HS.

When to summon outside of knockdown. When to commit to the buzzsaw instead of -P- or -S-.

Develop your muscle memory so that you can execute what you want when you want.

[Antihero11]

I have a question for other Zato/Eddie mains out there.
 

Is it worth switching to an arcade stick to play Zato instead of playing on pad?

The reason I ask is because I have been a pad player for about five years, and I'm having a really difficult time switching over. I've heard that it's a preference thing, but if I put time into the arcade stick now, will it make Zato an easier character to play down the line. Generally speaking of course since I know it comes down to preference.
 

Also, I don't know if Zato's extremely difficult to play or if it's getting use to the arcade stick. But doing both at the same time has been an absolute nightmare for me. I find myself in training mode practicing basic combos and quarter turn motions for hours on end. Any advice from others who have made the switch? Maybe to speed up this process.


 

[Fame96]

I use a pad and it's very doable. Here's a tip for pad, when you set a button to 2 buttons on one (such as pk or sh) if you hold it down and let it go the weak strength takes priority (p over k and so on). If you want the stronger of the two, hold down the weaker button whatever you have it set to.

I use the default layout with dust as L2, roman cancel as R2, SH as L1, and PK as R1. This might not work for you but i do recommend trying it.

Using a stick is a nightmare for me. I just can't do it, so i can't help you there.

[Tapioca]

I would sell my soul for Ogawa to make a tutorial video for xrd.

[wiredgod]

I have a question for other Zato/Eddie mains out there.

 

Is it worth switching to an arcade stick to play Zato instead of playing on pad?

The reason I ask is because I have been a pad player for about five years, and I'm having a really difficult time switching over. I've heard that it's a preference thing, but if I put time into the arcade stick now, will it make Zato an easier character to play down the line. Generally speaking of course since I know it comes down to preference.

 

Also, I don't know if Zato's extremely difficult to play or if it's getting use to the arcade stick. But doing both at the same time has been an absolute nightmare for me. I find myself in training mode practicing basic combos and quarter turn motions for hours on end. Any advice from others who have made the switch? Maybe to speed up this process.

 

 

IMO, using a stick for Zato is going to be optimal and the reason is having to hold down multiple multiple buttons simultaneously to time the negative edging. Zato is going to be difficult to play.  Puppet characters are generally some of the hardest characters to master.  I think they are also the most fun once you get them down.  I don't think though that you would want the complexity of Zato added on top of learning stick.  Consider one or the other.

[Antihero11]

I would sell my soul for Ogawa to make a tutorial video for xrd.

I would sacrifice my eyesight and make a pact with the devil that allows me to control my shadow... If Ogawa made a tutorial.

 

To those I was asking before. Something about using the Arcade Stick clicked last night. After about 4-5 hours of practice, somehow I can pull off all of my pad combos on the stick. Now I just need to focus on neutral.

 

I have also found that it's waaaaaaay easier to negative edge on the stick compared to the pad. So I am taking the hard road and learning Zato and the Arcade Stick at the same time. It will just take a lot of practice and muscle memory. But damn, is it satisfying. I thought of picking up someone easier or switching back to pad. But I think my hard effort will pay off in a few weeks/month.

 

[TheeJohnnyBee]

Just picked up Zato=1 a few days ago, went through the characters and settled on Zato.

 

How many decades of my life are going to be dedicated to the great zato-sama?

If I am at range, what do I do against characters like Axl or Ramlethal?

[wiredgod]

Any suggestions for a good pressure string on a sandwiched opponent?

[Mr.Biscuits]

-P- > 2(K) -P- > 2(K) is what you want to start with and then go from there. -P- is -3 and 2K is +3 so you can mess around with that and either command throw, extend the string into an unsummon or setup a frame trap. You can confirm any hit of -P- or -2K- into a combo. 

[Fame96]

What are good normals to summon off of when you have your opponent to respect you?

[Mr.Biscuits]

-S- is definitely the best one to unsummon from but of course you want it to make contact so you get all the frame advantage. Make sure to hold button down when unsummoning if you're doing a button press.

[Renly]

Is there anywhere where I can find Zato optimal combos? And are Zato's combos character specific? I tried some challenges yesterday after I learned his throw cancel combo I tried on the rest of the cast and it didn't work the same.

[Antihero11]

I second this. I think we really need a combo thread with basic BnB's. Maybe a general strategy for neutral, and negative edging tips for beginner's new to Zato.

For such a complex character, there's a lack of resources to get started with him. I'm guessing it's because he's so complicated that basically nobody mains him.

 

[Mr.Biscuits]

I've been busy just playing. Which is what I recommend to any player. After The event on the 27th I'll make a combo thread now that I'm a lot more comfortable with the character and my hit confirms.

[Renly]

Just saw other character threads and its really depressing as a new player there isn't a combo thread for Zato. The newer characters have pages filled with combos. I look forward to that combo thread, Busicuits.

[burningvigor]

Just saw other character threads and its really depressing as a new player there isn't a combo thread for Zato. The newer characters have pages filled with combos. I look forward to that combo thread, Busicuits.

Why not just copy what others do from match videos?

 

I don't even play Zato and I know exactly what's going on during his combo strings. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA2MqK_yowA

 

0:23    IAD S HS P 2D   236H hold K   / release / jump standing k(hold)  S  2S / release / D   

 

0:51   236HS (hold S) release S / j. k  j.hs(hold) (hold forward & S while HS is coming out) D release S  j. D 

 

just do that and you can figure it out.

[Kane-Z]

I was thinking about creating a combo thread by translating the combos from the jpn wiki. Their wiki page is actually fairly complete right now and even ranks Zato's combos in terms of usefulness. However, I'm not sure if Biscuits has anything else planned for it but at least we would get some kinda of discussion going.