[CP] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[felipebwk]

thanks for the replies to my post! was a good summary of the situation, so I was shocked at the changes in 5D/2B! thanks for listening.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

it was great in EX when you could catch em with 22c if they didnt tech.

I would expect it to be pretty good now still since 22C pickup midscreen can lead to a nice corner carry if you are the right distance from the corner and/or fighting the right character.

Another post is forthcoming, Mash has already touched on some of my views regarding Ragna's pressure and why it isn't good, or really even solid. Just need to actually cobble together my thoughts on the situation as a whole.

[氷ウルフ]

Is his pressure really so bad?

There are characters with worse pressure.

[Lucalibur]

Is his pressure really so bad?

There are characters with worse pressure.

Better than bad doesn't equals good, sadly. Specially in a game with weak characters like Blazblue, at least when compared to other fighters.

[KayEff]

i'd like to see you name more than three.

[YukiBlue]

More than three what? Weak characters?

[mAc Chaos]

Characters with worse pressure than Ragna's.

Hakumen.

[floatwater]

mAc/10. huehuehuehuehue

@titanium: that's not a bad idea actually. just hope that we can squeeze 22C DC chase 5C>J.C>DID at least.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

I was thinking more 22C DC -> DS DC -> etc, since that has more to do with proximity to the corner than which character you're doing it on.

[Cheefoo]

I think people need to use 6D more.

Characters with worse pressure? Arakune... Lambda... uhh Relius...?

If you could give Ragna one new cancel to enhance his pressure and overall offensive capabilities, what would it be? Nothing too silly like 5D>2A or anything, though.

[floatwater]

I was referring to midscreen.

Also i don't think you can 22C DC > DS DC unless you were saying choosing one of those.

@chee: Arakune has a better pressure than ragna, Lambda isn't much of a rush person so i guesss (?). Relius has much better pressure but it gets cut short if you do not control ignis properly.

Shoutouts to people still saying "6D"

[MashThat5A]

Also before someone says 6D, IB barrier.

Ｃａｌｌｅｄ　ｔｈａｔ　ｓｈｉｔ．

[Skye]

Arakune does not have better pressure than Ragna.

Not pre-curse.

Everything he does can be barrier blocked, and unlike Ragna, he cannot stagger pressure, so once Arakune is pushed out enough, he has to jump to keep on the offensive, ironically his pressure game is over once he does.

This is why you see most Arakune players jumping away once pushed out and playing keep away.

Any other outcome is the opponent scared to push buttons or not knowing their options, or Tager.

[floatwater]

He has projectiles that people are forced to eat if they want to get in. J.4B either can eat 6A if deep enough or it clashes. it'll rarely beat J.4B clean which is why most of the time IB Barrier is the more appropriate answer, on top of that his 5A is lolol. his pressure is much more consistant as well.

[MashThat5A]

I'd argue that anyone with a jump cancel-able normal that gattlings into non-pressure ending moves, hits crouching opponents, and can be staggered has better pressure than Ragna.

[-Kid]

Specially in a game with weak characters like Blazblue

Dunno what comparison you are making with Blazblue, but there are no overall weak characters in Blazblue. Most characters have weak aspects to them, but all characters can excel given the right situations and conditions. Wouldn't call it having weak characters though :|

[Skye]

I really dont want to include zoning onto the scope of an up close pressure game.

Arakune's zoning tools are only useful or safe at 3/4th to fullscreen, anywhere closer and Arakune can be punished for even trying, to put it in perspective, all of his zoning tools have more than 30 frames start up except for 2d which is unsafe as hell even on normal block.

Everything else you mentioned is less Arakune's pressure game compared to Ragna's and more your experience in the Arakune vs Ragna match up.

You're free to believe whatever you think, but to help form context to better identify Arakune's pressure;

The fruit of his pressure pre-curse involves all of his a attacks and j.b. Not to say that he is unable to mix it up and keep it fresh, but anything outside what I just mentioned is unsafe and relies on conditioning or the hope that your opponent has no clue that anytime you jump to resume pressure, you're leaving a gap that can be air grabbed, a mashed, aa'd or dp'd.

[MashThat5A]

My experience in the Ragna vs Kune matchup is Souji bodying all of my 6As with j.4B when I tried to react mash him out of his pressure reset. Unless you're telling me to react to the jump startup. Oh, and if you're telling me to DP that, then the fact that DP is my only option against that means that his pressure is good.

Edited May 10, 2013 by MashThat5A

[floatwater]

If it was jump start up, AIR GWABZZZ. because since they ALWAYS commit to J.4B it's a CH. but even then sometimes you get beaten. also that you can barrier midst move (it's so dumb). MY MU EXP: SOUJI DA GAWD

[TheBossGiga]

I think people need to use 6D more.

Characters with worse pressure? Arakune... Lambda... uhh Relius...?

If you could give Ragna one new cancel to enhance his pressure and overall offensive capabilities, what would it be? Nothing too silly like 5D>2A or anything, though.

Well before was EX announced what i really wanted as a buff for rag was a new 4d normal that would have a vacuum effect with around 16-18f start up and be -1 and able to gat into 5d

after EX though i felt like it would be overkill so it stayed a dream normal for me.

On chars with worse pressure than rag, There are a few with that are worse and get situationally better like Pre-curse ara, carl no doll, or tsu no charges but chars who i just feel like have plain old worse pressure than rag are Haku, noel ,Mak , mu(yeah mu... strictly talking pressure its kinda weak.)

[mAc Chaos]

I was serious about Hakumen. He has all the same problems as Ragna with the addition of needing stars. What saves Hakumen is he gets enough damage to make up for it.

I'd also throw Tsubaki, Noel, Makoto and maybe Tager into the mix, although I can't say for sure with them since I don't play them. I always hear Makoto players talk about her as if she's a shittier Ragna though.

Could count Carl too if you don't count being between him and the doll. That's like Arakune post-curse.

[floatwater]

"Most characters have weak aspects to them, but all characters can excel given the right situations and conditions." I wouldn't count carl.

Hakumen is what Ragna wished he could be. Haku> Ragna due to basically every normal that Haku has is a WORTHWHILE tool.

[mAc Chaos]

Ragna has better pressure than Hakumen though.

Haku's pressure is basically just frame traps and stagger pressure. Which is something that Ragna can pretty much do already.

[Skye]

My experience in the Ragna vs Kune matchup is Souji bodying all of my 6As with j.4B when I tried to react mash him out of his pressure reset. Unless you're telling me to react to the jump startup. Oh, and if you're telling me to DP that, then the fact that DP is my only option against that means that his pressure is good.

Seriously, when the heck did we start talking about the Ragna vs Arakune match up? I for real thought we were discussing Ragna's pressure tools overall compared to Arakune's pressure tools overall.

Second you seem to be putting yourself on Souji's level of play if you think the rape fest he gave you was 100% the match up and not him simply being a far superior player than you.

That's some confidence.

Third, bear in mind that many of Arakune's best offensive tools are gone in CP. Rising j.b, 2b > 2a, jcable 5b on block, really important stuff that made the better parts of his pressure game.

[TheBossGiga]

The problem i see with haku though is that almost nothing without stars is gapless so Dp's blow it up and punishing upback is almost impossible without committing stars and even then its a commitment, Barrier really hurts his pressure forcing you to use stars to reset and even then its not really safe and this coupled with that gapless thing and the up back thing =. Basically everything needs stars and a read to catch He Reeaally can't auto pilot pressure because even though what you said about his normals is right they each are only good in specific situations. haku's great at everything else though except maybe oki(probably just me) so its ok